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**xBhp** · 10-11-2018, 11:32 AM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Thread approved.

**Zapps** · 10-11-2018, 11:47 AM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Nice, I've reas on this forum that Pulsar owners find Motul 5100 (semi-synthetic) to be the best choice & balance.

I'm getting Pulsar 220F later this month. How did you run-in the engine.

**nirjhar1997** · 10-11-2018, 12:07 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by knucklehead31 View Post

Hi Guys, hope you are doing well, I am new to the community, thanks to the mods for approving my membership.

I own a 2017 pulsar 180 it is14 months old now and I had been planning to switch the engine oil once I had exhausted all the free service coupons. It has completed 6200 kms and I was thinking of moving to at least semi-synthetic oil. I had heard a lot of praises for the Motul 5100 and was planning to put in the same, but then I thought that it wasn't a bad idea to move to a fully synthetic oil and decided to do the same. The contenders were Shell Helix Ultra 15w50, ELF moto 4 tech 10w50, Valvoline 20w50, Motul 7100 20w 50 and Motul 300V 15w50. I did a lot of research and narrowed it down to Motul 7100 20w50, though I was not able to find 20w50 grade so I ended up investing in 10w50. Paid 780 for a liter pack, which had two sets of seal on it (impressed to find that).

My ride has done 200 kms since i switched and here are some of the initial impressions

Engine turns over easily (though it might be due to lower winter grade).
Slightly more refined sounding engine (can't tell much because the bike has done only 6200 kms so it wasn't that rough in the first place).
Engine runs noticeably cooler, previously I could feel the heat (not unbearable) on my legs but now that is completely gone.
Smoother shifts ( gear shift below 3k rpm showed some resistance but now they slot in smoothly between 2k to 3k rpm, though I don't recommend shifting at anything lower than 2.5k as it lugs the engine).
Slightly better throttle response.

Till now there has been no drop in oil level (somewhere on the internet I read that it leaks in pulsars) and no leaks around the head or stickiness in exhaust.

Thanks.

You can ride with 7100 if you finding it smooth..but the fully synthetic oils like 7100 and 300v are for heavy performance bikes which are very high revving motors...as far as pulsars are considered,they are in between commuters and solely performance machines. The motors of pulsars are raw and not refined like the ones on ktm soo its no use spending money on oils like 300v.
You can try 5100 also if you like...many pulsar user say it is much better with the motor than 7100.

Hope this helps
Ride Safe!

**nirjhar1997** · 10-11-2018, 12:14 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by Zapps View Post

Nice, I've reas on this forum that Pulsar owners find Motul 5100 (semi-synthetic) to be the best choice & balance.

I'm getting Pulsar 220F later this month. How did you run-in the engine.

Motul 5100 15w-50 is a great oil for raw motors like that of pulsars. I ditched dtsi-10000 as soon as i can at 2500km,simce then i am using 5100 and the expirence has been great soo far no cold starts engine feels very happy and less vibey..I did the basic break in as suggested by company,therfore the first 1000kms were done 60kmph and the next 1000kms were done under 75kmph. Its very hard to put the throttle in control [emoji28]. But the break in gave me a great engine with a great mileage.

Hope this helps!
Ride safe.

**dual disc 200** · 10-11-2018, 02:53 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Ok, here it is. I've had Pulsar's in the past with a good amount of mods and have been running on the 300V and let me put down a few points for you to decide why you've made the right decision.

Pro's of 300V
1. Double Ester
2. High durability and retains the viscosity under harsh environments
3. Revv friendly. Doesn't do much damage to the engine.
4. Smoother gear shifts

Con's
1. Short drain interval - IMHO I've seen the oil unusable excess of 4k kms
2. Sluggish on hot weather conditions whereas superior performance in cold weather
3. Needs warm-up to comfortable operating temps.
4. Tends to eat away the gaskets if used for the first time alongside old gaskets.

In your case, the 7100 offers all of the Pro's of the 300V at a competitive price. The only thing that is not worthy as 300V would be the single ester technology. But on the other hand, gives a full paisa vasool with a drain interval of 7k kms easily without any hiccups.

The so-called Bajaj DTS-I oil if I'm right is made by Valvoline.

**The Mountain** · 10-11-2018, 07:22 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by dual disc 200 View Post

Ok, here it is. I've had Pulsar's in the past with a good amount of mods and have been running on the 300V and let me put down a few points for you to decide why you've made the right decision.

Pro's of 300V
1. Double Ester
2. High durability and retains the viscosity under harsh environments
3. Revv friendly. Doesn't do much damage to the engine.
4. Smoother gear shifts

Con's
1. Short drain interval - IMHO I've seen the oil unusable excess of 4k kms
2. Sluggish on hot weather conditions whereas superior performance in cold weather
3. Needs warm-up to comfortable operating temps.
4. Tends to eat away the gaskets if used for the first time alongside old gaskets.

In your case, the 7100 offers all of the Pro's of the 300V at a competitive price. The only thing that is not worthy as 300V would be the single ester technology. But on the other hand, gives a full paisa vasool with a drain interval of 7k kms easily without any hiccups.

The so-called Bajaj DTS-I oil if I'm right is made by Valvoline.

I may be able to shed some light on some of the "cons" you list:

Your numbers 1 and 4 are related. Low-quality oils tend to have fewer additives such as detergents and the various chemicals added to keep the oil from going off-grade. When you switch to a higher-quality oil, especially a synthetic, you'll get a bigger shot of those additives. One of the most prominent effects is that all the detergents in your new oil will start loosening all the sludge deposits accumulated during the time when you ran cheap oil, so for at least a while, it will seem that your oil gets dirty more quickly. Once your engine has been thoroughly cleaned out inside, you should see it taking longer for the oil to look dirty. In conjunction with that, as those sludge deposits get cleaned out, the gaps in gaskets and seals that the deposits have been concealing will now be exposed, and you'll start to see leaks. Also, since synthetic oil molecules are pretty uniform compared to "liquid dinosaur", it's easier for the oil to leak or seep through smaller gaps. Oils will not damage the seals or gaskets themselves.

I'm not sure how you're defining "sluggish" so I can't respond to your number 2, but for your number three I can say: it takes less than a second upon starting for the oil in your bike to fully circulate through your engine and lubricate every surface. In addition, synthetic oils often have lubricant additives that stay on the wear surfaces even when oil isn't circulating, so everything stays protected even during startup. There is no need at all to "warm up" your engine; the lack of heat you're feeling comes from the lower friction inside the motor now that you're using synthetic oil. Just start the bike and go; no need to wait for a "warm up"; indeed you are doing your motor a disservice if you just let it idle after startup, because that encourages moisture accumulation.

**dual disc 200** · 10-11-2018, 07:47 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by The Mountain View Post

I may be able to shed some light on some of the "cons" you list:

Your numbers 1 and 4 are related. Low-quality oils tend to have fewer additives such as detergents and the various chemicals added to keep the oil from going off-grade. When you switch to a higher-quality oil, especially a synthetic, you'll get a bigger shot of those additives. One of the most prominent effects is that all the detergents in your new oil will start loosening all the sludge deposits accumulated during the time when you ran cheap oil, so for at least a while, it will seem that your oil gets dirty more quickly. Once your engine has been thoroughly cleaned out inside, you should see it taking longer for the oil to look dirty. In conjunction with that, as those sludge deposits get cleaned out, the gaps in gaskets and seals that the deposits have been concealing will now be exposed, and you'll start to see leaks. Also, since synthetic oil molecules are pretty uniform compared to "liquid dinosaur", it's easier for the oil to leak or seep through smaller gaps. Oils will not damage the seals or gaskets themselves.

I'm not sure how you're defining "sluggish" so I can't respond to your number 2, but for your number three I can say: it takes less than a second upon starting for the oil in your bike to fully circulate through your engine and lubricate every surface. In addition, synthetic oils often have lubricant additives that stay on the wear surfaces even when oil isn't circulating, so everything stays protected even during startup. There is no need at all to "warm up" your engine; the lack of heat you're feeling comes from the lower friction inside the motor now that you're using synthetic oil. Just start the bike and go; no need to wait for a "warm up"; indeed you are doing your motor a disservice if you just let it idle after startup, because that encourages moisture accumulation.

Just a test for you or educate me. Open the valve inspection cover and fire up the engine and let me know if the oil reaches the head in one sec as you've mentioned.

You don't need to warm up your engine? That's pretty nice to hear. Ever wondered what happens if the optimum temperature for operating the engine is not met?

**Zapps** · 10-11-2018, 07:50 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Warm up is necessary, there's no magic science about it. Some oils though have a special property that they can cling to the metal surface so once they circulate through system, they provide instant lubrication.

**Zapps** · 10-11-2018, 07:55 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

But still, they need some time to spread throughout whole system and lubricate the whole engine. Warm-up makes sure the oil has circulated thru whole engine and that each part is lubricated enough.

Now well lubricated surfaces have many benefits:-

1) low resistance to motion
2) less wear and tear of parts
3) lower temp at components as oil acts as coolant

**The Mountain** · 10-11-2018, 08:09 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by dual disc 200 View Post

Just a test for you or educate me. Open the valve inspection cover and fire up the engine and let me know if the oil reaches the head in one sec as you've mentioned.

You don't need to warm up your engine? That's pretty nice to hear. Ever wondered what happens if the optimum temperature for operating the engine is not met?

Originally posted by Zapps View Post

Warm up is necessary, there's no magic science about it. Some oils though have a special property that they can cling to the metal surface so once they circulate through system, they provide instant lubrication.

Originally posted by Zapps View Post

But still, they need some time to spread throughout whole system and lubricate the whole engine. Warm-up makes sure the oil has circulated thru whole engine and that each part is lubricated enough.

Now well lubricated surfaces have many benefits:-

1) low resistance to motion
2) less wear and tear of parts
3) lower temp at components as oil acts as coolant

If you won't believe me, believe this MotorBike Writer essay (note the bolded, and especially the underlined, passages):

How to warm up a motorcycle engine

POSTED ON 18TH MARCH, 2015 BY MARK HINCHLIFFE

Have you ever seen, heard and smelt a rider revving their motorcycle engine or idling their bike for minutes before getting on and riding away?
It’s obnoxious at a cafe when you’re trying to sip your latte amid their fumes, but it’s also fairly pointless and a waste of fuel.
It may also be doing their engine harm if they don’t warm it up correctly.
Old motorcycles with carburettors and gluggy oils required a long period of warming up but surely today’s fuel-injected engines with modern synthetic oils can go straight after you push the button, right?
Yes, but it also depends on how old the engine is.
If it’s a new [note: he means showroom-new zero miles] bike, it will require a few seconds – not minutes – to warm up. This is not only so the oils warm, but so the gaskets and valve seat properly in the new engine.
After the first 1000km, you won’t need to warm it up for near as long, if at all.
RACQ technical guru and Suzuki Bandit rider Steve Spalding advises riders not to idle their engines any longer than is necessary.
“At traffic lights, it’s unavoidable but there is no need to run at idle before starting off,” he says.
“The best advice is to start the bike and ride away as soon as it will do so without any spluttering – in Queensland’s climate this should be almost instantly almost all year round.”
Modern engine management systems will ensure the fuel mixture is correct unlike the days of setting the choke on the carburettors to allow smooth starting from cold. And modern synthetic oils get the oil flowing quickly to lubricate the engine, even in cold conditions.
In fact, oil pressure rises when the bike is under load, so it is actually lubricating the engine better to be moving than sitting still.
If you idle modern bikes too long, or rev them hard before riding away, you can do long-term wear and damage to bearings and seals.
As for old bikes like my 1980 Honda CX500, let them idle with gentle revs not exceeding a third of the revs to redline. Allow the choke to slowly go back in with a gentle prod, however you can head off before the choke is fully off.
Just make sure the engine is running smoothly at idle and not conking out. Don’t just rely on the engine temperature gauge or feeling the fins of the engine.
Once underway, don’t leave the choke out for too long as this can carbon up internal components such as valves, piston crown and rings and it makes the bike blow black smoke.

The time it will take to get an old engine running smoothly will depend on its condition, displacement and configuration as well as the ambient temperature.

**dual disc 200** · 10-11-2018, 08:12 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by The Mountain View Post

If you won't believe me, believe this MotorBike Writer essay (note the bolded, and especially the underlined, passages):

Let me get to the essay writer later. I'll show you a trillion essays backing up my statements. Let me know if you find oil in the head after one second of firing up the engine.

P.S. I build engines. So, I pretty know what I'm talking about.

**The Mountain** · 10-11-2018, 08:42 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by dual disc 200 View Post

Let me get to the essay writer later. I'll show you a trillion essays backing up my statements. Let me know if you find oil in the head after one second of firing up the engine.

P.S. I build engines. So, I pretty know what I'm talking about.

I don't care if you "build engines". I've worked on engines for decades too, literally longer than you've been alive in fact. Are you seriously trying to say you know more about bike engines than a professional motorcycle writer? And years ago, you might have been right, but you're not anymore. Modern consumer engines *don't need* to be warmed up before use anymore, and indeed many manufacturers (e.g. BMW) specifically state in the owner's manual that you should not warm your bike up before riding, though they do indicate that you should ride gently for a little while before really getting into the throttle. Synthetic oils, modern designs, and improved engine technology mean the motor is lubricated nearly instantly, especially little engines like motorcycle engines. Also, my bike isn't old enough to have valve inspection ports; I'd have to pull the tank and the whole valve cover. In fact, I've only ever owned one bike primitive enough to need a valve inspection port, my 1986 Honda XT650. Not even my 1989 GSXRs or my 1987 Magnas had them. If you're still stuck in the carburetor/adjustable valves era, it's no wonder you think bikes still need to be warmed up.

And you don't get to just disregard the evidence I've provided out of hand, especially when you follow it up with unfounded assertions. Even the AMSOIL people say you don't need more than a few seconds at best. Some of the AMSOIL people do say a minute i.e. just long enough to get your helmet and gloves on, but they're also talking about deliberately-retro v-twin cruiser engines, which have dry-sump lubrication systems and extremely long oil passages to reach the top of the cylinders.

**dual disc 200** · 10-11-2018, 09:11 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by The Mountain View Post

I don't care if you "build engines". I've worked on engines for decades too, literally longer than you've been alive in fact. Are you seriously trying to say you know more about bike engines than a professional motorcycle writer? And years ago, you might have been right, but you're not anymore. Modern consumer engines *don't need* to be warmed up before use anymore, and indeed many manufacturers (e.g. BMW) specifically state in the owner's manual that you should not warm your bike up before riding, though they do indicate that you should ride gently for a little while before really getting into the throttle. Synthetic oils, modern designs, and improved engine technology mean the motor is lubricated nearly instantly, especially little engines like motorcycle engines. Also, my bike isn't old enough to have valve inspection ports; I'd have to pull the tank and the whole valve cover. In fact, I've only ever owned one bike primitive enough to need a valve inspection port, my 1986 Honda XT650. Not even my 1989 GSXRs or my 1987 Magnas had them. If you're still stuck in the carburetor/adjustable valves era, it's no wonder you think bikes still need to be warmed up.

And you don't get to just disregard the evidence I've provided out of hand, especially when you follow it up with unfounded assertions. Even the AMSOIL people say you don't need more than a few seconds at best. Some of the AMSOIL people do say a minute i.e. just long enough to get your helmet and gloves on, but they're also talking about deliberately-retro v-twin cruiser engines, which have dry-sump lubrication systems and extremely long oil passages to reach the top of the cylinders.

Aah.. Ha.. You've been ego hit. Obviously the reply I expected from someone who can't take criticism in a constructive way. I don't want to show mine is bigger than yours anyways.

Point out where any manufacturer say that no warmup is required in the user manual probably printed out material and I'll pass the trophy to you. Over and out.

**Zapps** · 10-11-2018, 09:18 PM

Re: Changing to fully synthetic oil : Inital Impressions

Originally posted by The Mountain View Post

If you won't believe me, believe this MotorBike Writer essay (note the bolded, and especially the underlined, passages):

Maybe in his experience and the motorcycles present in his region, he finds it like that. But here in India, things are different.

Besides, he talks about idling at 1/3 the rev range, that's not what I mean by warm up. It simply means that you start the bike and wait one time till it idles without throttle input for 10 seconds. A normal warm up means 30-60 seconds till aforementioned condition is achieved.

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