General Biking Discussion Topic Approved.

About the comparison , I think its baseless and pointless .
Japan - Bikes are bought by motorcyclists/enthusisasts who pay high prices for good quality powerful bikes.
India - more than 90% enthusiasts don't have the moolah to buy high end bikes leave alone those who buy them for commuting.
The remaining stuff , I think we have discussed it over and over again for years now and trust me nobody is happy about it and nothing can be done about it.

If govt. relaxes their policies, then one can very well bring down the 600's (for those who cant afford a litre class bike like me) and v can very well say to International Motorbike companies who will keep launching 100 models from 100-150 c.c in India, damn u... I got it before even before the launch which is in 2025 A.D..

YUP... nothing to do with it... jus wait wait and wait... that's all...
hope for the best...

@Niks:+1

@amvj: BTW, just for ur info, Honda (cars) sells all the latest updated models in India. the Only car maker to do so...
Bajaj is doing most no. of updates! Maybe yes; but like HH is an accomplished sticker artist, Bajaj is ON to become a cut-copy-paste artist.
Only Yamaha learnt their lesson.
TVS is coming up fast & better.
Suzuki, cant say anything, they had just started.

I have come across the following as excuses :

(i) We are not ready for fast machines?
(ii) Our infrastructure/roads are not ready?
(iii) It does not make economic sense to invest and then sell small number of high capacity bikes?
(iv) The manufacturers are still study Indian markets for data on demand for big bikes?
(v) The manufacturers will bring big bikes in due course at the opportune moment. Rest assured.
(vi) Our components manufacturers (OEM) are not upto the mark.
(vii) The market for big bikes is not mature in India.
(viii) Why do you need fast bikes? If you want to go any faster, buy a Rs. 5-6 lakh car and go to 150-160 kmph. Enjoy.
(ix) Our fuel standards, fuel economy standards, and emission standards are toughest in the world, so it is difficult to bring big engines here?
(x) and blah blah blah blah ........blah.

Are bhai who is asking for big bikes.

A single cylinder 250/300 cc engine equiped with a good carb enclosed in double craddle iron frame with the current range of cycle parts (albeit lighter) would not require our desi manufacturers (Bajaj and TVS) to master rocket science. But these foolish manufacturers are wasting their and our time by launching bikes with 20 cc increases each, in installments.

About foreigners, I do not even want to complaint. They are here for profits with least bit of investment or efforts. Period.

When you master indigenous Anti-Ballistic Missile shield on your own, you get offers from US, USSR, EU, etc. to come and join their missile shield and buy products from them. Otherwise, you are a pappu waiting for whatever is doled out to you.

But the crook boffins at desi manufacturers have landed us in the worst situation we currently are in. This is our fate, bros. Reconcile to it.

A humble advice:

@niks: hey bro. why u think this is baseless and pointless ? dont think only the 600 and 1000s there are many things in between. have a look at the pic.

@spiderweb: agreed with some parts of your post but cars are different league.

@technician:
".......less than 25 PS are not desirable for people who are enthusiast bikers like members of xbhp........"

I disgree with this part. rest is +1.

The author compared everything except the motive behind Indians (except few) buying so many bikes and People abroad buying less number bikes which kind of ends the comparison/debate.

As Niks said it has been discussed so many times since so many years. Over and out.

The current bike owners with a current good bike with power between 15 to 20 PS (the current Indian crop) would/should at least dream 25 PS or more from his new bike.

It is a waste for a 17 PS Bike owner to spend 70+ grands for a 20+ PS bike which is going to give only 5-10 kmph top end more than his current bike. It is in this context that one would require a bike with at least 25 PS or more.

For a person looking for his first performance bike, the current crop of bikes may also serve the purpose. But more is always welcome.

Good post.
If the problem is the fault of government policy, perhaps Indian 'bikers' of whom there are now a significant number who ride as a lifestyle or as part of a growing culture, should lobby the powers that be for a change in their stance. (By 'bikers', I don't include bread and butter / just ride to work folk). Here's my tuppenceworth..... If you feel Indian riders have a right to more than they are getting at the moment....

"Let the rider decide", was a slogan of the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) in the UK who have successfully challenged central bureaucracy here and in the Europe on anti-bike legislation. Their website is here with a cut and paste piece from their campaigns section below.
Motorcycle Action Group

"MAG was born out of protest against legislation, introduced in 1973, making it compulsory to wear a crash helmet.
Since then MAG has evolved from a single issue group to a highly respected political lobbying and campaigns group which is central to all aspects of policy and legislation affecting motorcycling.
MAG is the premier European motorcycle riders group and represents Britain's million motorcyclists on a wide range of issues that affect all aspects of motorcycling.
MAG has a nation-wide network of over 200 local groups who organise regular local meetings, political lobbying, demonstrations, social events and charitable functions".
index2

I feel that it is up to you guys to make your voices heard democratically and to show solidarity as a single body or entity. There are enough 'bikers' nationwide now to become a cohesive political lobby group to better your lot. You guys are voters and part of a growing, visible and coherent community who deserve to be seen and heard by central authority.

Becoming organised in such a fashion will bring you wanted and unwanted attention from the authorities but, until you do so, all you'll get from the government and manufacturers is what they want to give you. There would be much hard work required to bring this to fruition but we all know that nothing is achieved without hard graft. Just look at the work that's been put into Xbhp alone to help make biking as a lifestyle happen. Have a search for Riders Rights Organisations on the net and you'll get a feel for what's been achieved against some very difficult odds in the West.

Here are a few;
Motorcycle Action Group (as above)

BMF - British Motorcyclists Federation - Issues - Events - Touring

ABATE Of California

and one in Asia Motorcycle Philippines

It is up to you to make things happen. India since liberalisation has become a massive global economy and is set to continue growing. I'm not Indian and I'm fortunate, from a biking perspective, to stay in the UK but as many of you know, I'm studying Indian biker culture and as it grows, which it surely will, the responsibility for the quality of your biking future will be in your hands. Perhaps the motorcycle market has to mature a bit more yet. Anyway....

India, as far as I know, is a politically passionate country and values its democracy. That was evident from what I saw when I was there just before the elections. Use the system as best you can to get what you want and protect or extend your freedoms. Get in early as a culture with a politically organised body and the government should take notice. They can't afford not to if you incorporate the media, have a 'presence', good spokespeople and keep at them. You're the ones who will benefit in the long run.

Maybe you don't want to become politicised but as I said... It's up to you.

Brilliantly put Technician +1.

The original post made a comparo of the volumes between Japan & Indian markets. I am interested in the value. My guess is 60,000 bikes Japan would be higher in terms of value than 7Lakh Indian market. Short point is, there is more dough in Japan and markets like that.

As long as Bajajs & Srinivasans are the financiers for politicians, we cannot see any change in policy. Foreign manufacturers will not be interested for obvious reasons.

It is my conviction that there is a large market for 250cc bikes costing upto 2-2.5L in the 21-35 Yrs age group. But sadly, policy environment has made sure that this category is uncatered for.

1.The motive of buying bikes in the two nations is not covered
2.another eg. a 250r is "expected" to cost 2-2.5L OTR , do you think its a good deal? While answering this just think of our buying/earning power. Isn't this the amount we will save in 2 years time? Just to buy a bike , will you spend your two years savings? Now think about buying the 250 cc + bikes ...

BTW , as I said , there is no point in discussing again and again. I am out of this thread.

I guess its all upto:

a) what the government thinks (totally illogical protectionsim for our Indian manufacturers)
b) what the Manufacturers think (more dough in sticker/colour/minor bodywork/nifty feature/10-20cc upgrades)
c) what we think (why the hell cant we have more no. of bikes on sale? We have a large motorcycle market.....)

Its like a big jumble of laws and loopholes, flaws in the system, problems in our country, etc that hinder movement. I would say instead of asking 'why cant be have a decent twin/multi cylinder 400-600cc bike, because its more suitable for Indian conditions', the right question is 'why cant a production facility be built where manufacturers (Japanese big 4, other OEMs) can actually make a single/twin cylinder bike'? I dont know whether there is any restriction on making a 400cc 4 cylinder sportsbike in India, as its not being imported....

The tax on the high-end bikes and the increasing petrol prices are a big hindrance to the sales of these bikes in India. Which is why the manufactures are reluctant to release more models in India as they fear that their product might not sell upto their expectations.