+1 to that.

You just about summed it all up.

As almost everyone said it....!

I carry an experience of riding Pulsars for around 1 lakh 50k kms....!

And I can swear by the amount of fine-ness they have gone from almost horrific handlers (classics) to decent ones(latest)...!

Its not a track tool like the R15, its a pretty general regular daily machine and the build up reflects the same.
Similar is the case if considered from the other angle. Why isnt R15 as good as 220 in cities...!

Its all business that companies do. If they cant beat one firm on ther turf, they come out with something different, unearthed!

When Bajaj would want to launch a track oriented tool, they would do so by putting in all the ingredients which make a good track bike. Its a different question that "would Bajaj be able to compete with the current Yamahas and Hondas?"...

Obviously "NO"....But at least that time, people can compare a track oriented bike to a track oriented bike.


Nonetheless, nice informative discussion this is turning out to be!

[QUOTE=Devilpulsarian;367768] Its a different question that "would Bajaj be able to compete with the current Yamahas and Hondas?"...

Obviously "NO"....QUOTE]

You never know......

@threadstarter: What's the aim of the thread? Do you intend on doing some product bashing?

If not, then are you here to discuss why the 220 handles like this? Or Are you here to discuss how to improve the handling of the current 220?

Why has been answered be quite a few people here.

If you are looking at improving the current setup then I could provide a few inputs here.

You cannot change the frame of the bike, and then the only thing left its suspension and tyres. These alone cannot significantly alter the relatively high CoG of the bike. But with these altered a wee bit the handling does improve from being skittish to 'relatively confidence inspiring'.

For the Suspension, running the rear at the most stiff is the first thing to do. For the front the option left is to fill in more oil than usual. 300ml (as per what I have been told by the PBK) is standard amount of fork oil. I am running my bike with just 10ml extra oil and the difference is immediately apparent, the dive of the front suspension reduced quite a bike, the bike became more flickable and ofcourse it became a little bit painful in offroads. But this change has helped me improve my confidence quite a bit around corners. Some people here have experimented with larger quantities of like putting in 30-50ml extra. But for my needs I found 10ml to be perfectly fine. I even managed the terrain of Ladakh with stiffer front without any issues.

Tyres, now this is one of the most under rated components of the entire game of bike dynamics. With just simple tyre changes, the characteristics of the bike change greatly. You need to try different combinations and see what suits your requirement the best. For purely track use I have not see and used a better tyre than the Bridgestone Battlax BT-45 series tyre on this bike. The handling improves by leaps and bounds.

I am currently running a Michelin Sirac at the rear and IRC Wild Flare up front. With the rear shocks set to medium hard and 10ml extra fork oil, my FI feels much better handling than the new 220 Dts-i.

Ofcourse with these changes you cannot expect it to become an R15, at the end of the day the Pulsar still is a Pulsar with that age old frame inside it. But there are minor tweaks that can be done to help improve it enough to make it give atleast decent levels of confidence.

^^ great inputs there man!!

Tripathy babu: What tires do you recomend for the dtsi?

That's a good one Praful!

Guys this thread is becoming really really informative, keep on this with a good pace... i am going to rate this a 5/5...

That's the curving point
you just added a knee down info there

Great info, I would like to know what setup to use for the new DTS-i
I felt the Tyre seriously skidding when trying to lean it more than normal
as if i would fall the next moment,
Please suggest

@Prayful - In a 220 you can live with the front end dive. Its the rear which actually kills the ride.

@Braindead - I remember seeing you riding your RD in the MMSC with a pulsar tank and nitrox shocks.
I feel that you have opened this thread to find a way to plonk in as many viable parts from 220 in your new RD FRAME.

Whatever you do, just don't use the nitrox shocks. Its fit only for citiy riding and the rebound damping is not so effective. Try to get some fully adjustable rear shocks.

The tires in the 220 are excellent, but unless you reduce the pressure, the ride might loose traction very soon and make you feel that the tire is not so confidence inspiring.

But since the tyres are a bit big, it reduces the flickbcility.

1. contrary to my previous notion, the 220 has forks of modern internal design... metal guide bushes and all.
2. the steering stem bearings are of the angular contact type (like sbks)
3. the fork brace is a genuine item. its stiff in the right places.
4. the swingarm has needle roller bearings instead of rubber bushings. (like sbks)
5. the brakes are quite a good package

Plus : 6. Tyres are very good.
...though so much has gone into the bike w.r.t handling the P220 is still a nervous handler except on straight lines....I vaguely feel something wrong with the basics (Theory of Machines).

I'm not sure if this holds good here because my experience is with the P200.

I spoke to Mr. Rajkumar who used to be active on this forum and he recommended 20W fork oil to improve the front. Has anyone tried this yet?

Also I use the R15 tires and it definitely improves the handling. A stiffer rear and the R15 tires helps cornering quite a bit. That being said the tires loose the round profile quite soon.

Another cause for the handling issue is the position you sit on this bike. I feel that when you lean a lot of body weight transfers to the arm. For instance if you lean to the left, the left arm takes a lot of the body weight. This doesn't help because it stiffens your arm and then the shoulder.

first things first...
lol! the pulsar tank on my rd has nothing to do with wanting my bike to look like a pulsar. i wanted a high flow fuel tap and that involved cutting the tank. had a pulsar tank lying around and decided to butcher it instead of the rd tank.
the rear suspension units... they were the best in the right length i wanted. long term plan is a monoshock with my own prolink setup.

this discussion was intended as a brainstorming platform to try understand the cause for the apparent deficiencies of the 220. obviously the bike has a lot of kit. if it is still considered worse than the kari, something is fishy.

on another level, i am trying to understand the psychology of riders and i believe that when any layman (non pro racer) talks of handling, they are talking of how confident the feel on he bike and how many mistakes the bike forgives.


i grew up on the oldest p180 ever. i loved its handling. it had a snap turn-in if you counter-steered. it forgave a lot of my mistakes in certain situations. but it was hopeless in a straight line and over bumpy corners.

when i rode the kari, i found it so stable and lazy i hated it and i still call it a tourer.
my love for sharp bikes have made me reduce the rake of my rd to 25 deg from 27 deg. the steep rake is the reason i need better forks and from the tech POV, the 220 are the best in the country. (excluding the ninja). thankfully the rd has fantastic straight line stability thanks to my bike's front biased weight distribution.


now,
it is clear the 220 is much improved than their older bikes. but they have made it so bloody lazy in handling (competing with kari) that it does not feel good enough.
by making each version longer, they may have messed up weight distribution. the thing about weight distribution is that it does not affect the handling in all situations, making the handling unpredictable.


as for now, will we be able to improve it?
certainly.
but its very easy to make it worse.
i am trying to figure an externally adjustable damping system on the 220 forks... at least in the rebound damping... once the universe grants me 36 hours a day. lol!

cheers

Exactly. I love my bike (P150) for its snappy handling. Bumpy comers are its Achilles Heels though. Kari and newer Pulsars with longer swing-arms are just too lazy. But that is what makes them good for touring.

and one more thing i think i should add...

if you think i am trying to run something down, you have misunderstood me. welcome to the world of dispassionate critical analysis.

i am merely stating the goods and bads of multiple bikes and assessing them. if you own a donkey, i cannot call it a horse. but i will say it does carry a larger load than a horse.
this is a scientific process and there is no place for sensitive egos in science.

cheers