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Mysterious power issues with my RTR180

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  • #1

    Mysterious power issues with my RTR180

    All expert troubleshooters out there - I desperately need your help to solve a mysterious issue with my Apache RTR180.

    Short history:
    1. Bike is 2.5 years old, currently 45k on Odo
    2. Installed a K&N R1060 filter just after second free service, converted to full DC with coil rewinding etc, swithched to bixenon HID 35W, later upgraded to 55W
    3. Early in Jan 2011, ran into engine trouble due to low oil (still a mystery how it happened). Changed cylinder kit, crank under warranty after a bit of struggle with SVC.
    4. After running the above bore for 3k kms, got a 190cc big bore from Joel.
    5. Hardly 2k kms into the big bore, found out that the piston got damaged due to faulty installation.
    6. Reverted back to stock bore (from pt 3)
    7. Decided to do Leh in Aug, 2011 by around June. Hiccupps started - at low rpms, b/n 2-4k rpm. Showed to SVC at Cochin, they said RTR is like this only!
    8. Taking the risk, went off to Leh. Did Delhi - Amritsar - Srinagar - Rangdum - Kargil - Leh - Manali - Delhi in Aug 2011, with absolutely no issues
    9. Reached back home from Leh, the next day hiccups resumed. The new issue of power loss also started - bike would not climb above 6k, sometime 7k rpm in any gear
    10. Changed the TCI unit, TPS unit, throttle cable etc - no use
    11. Opened the carb, found the main jet was 105 instead of 125, thanks to the mech who installed the big bore (from pt 4,5). Replaced with stock main jet - hiccups vanished, power loss continued.
    12. Removed the DC conversion changes hoping its electrical issue - no use. Reverted to DC for next point.
    13. Nov end - went to Banglore, visited Joel, reinstalled the big bore with new semi-forged piston, got FFE with db killer, Simota conical air filter. During test ride after installation, found no issue what so ever, but being run-in period did not test completely.
    14. Rode back from Bangalore to TVM via Cochin, upping the top rpm every 100kms. At Cochin, the run-in distance of 500kms +100km was done. Rode to TVM at full throttle. Felt like I was riding a mini rocket. I was so so so so happy.
    15. After reaching home and sleeping for 2 hrs, went to offie, came back. No issue.
    16. Next day, going to office - started the bike, climbed the uphill from home to main road, hit the throttle leaning forward, not getting thrown back, bike gains speed in a very sedate manner, just like before installing the upgrades (pt13)... I'm heart broken.

    Current situation: no hiccups, sure its not engine issue as bike gains good speed in excess of 100kmph - given the space. AFR is proper, spark plug is brownish black in color. Not due to DC conversion as removing and testing for 2 weeks did not yield any results.

    Things replaced as part of troubleshooting: TCI (ignition controller in RTRS), TPS, Throttle cable, spark plug etc
    Things not changed: Only carb and ignition coil.

    Currently the bike is not performing like an RTR (Race Throttle Response). It gains speed in a very very sedate manner - just like a underpowered 100cc bike. The throttle response is very very slow/sluggish.

    What could be the cause? Please help me with your thoughts and inputs.

    Thanks,
    Lijo
    Last edited by lijok; 12-12-2011, 12:30 PM.

    Tags: hiccup, rtr180
  • #2
    Query appoved.
    (Been There Done That) x 3.25

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by lijok View Post
      Currently the bike is not performing like an RTR (Race Throttle Response). It gains speed in a very very sedate manner - just like a underpowered 100cc bike. The throttle response is very very slow/sluggish.

      What could be the cause? Please help me with your thoughts and inputs.

      Thanks,
      Lijo
      From all your report and recollection the problem seem to be territorial.....ie it happens only in your place..you have gone up to Leh without issues...
      I would request you to change the Petrol Station from where you usually fill up, and go to a company owned outlet,and see if there is any change.
      Since you are in Kerala and is monsoon time, please check and clean air filter more often as damp air congests air filters and in some cases even form fungus .
      But the best solution can be from the person who did your over bore conversion .
      When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

      Comment

      • #4
        have you cleaned the carb?do you think accelerator cable is creating any prob?
        Speak Less,Speak Wise!

        Sarcasm is my automatic response to stupidity.

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by lijok View Post
          Currently the bike is not performing like an RTR (Race Throttle Response). It gains speed in a very very sedate manner - just like a underpowered 100cc bike. The throttle response is very very slow/sluggish.
          Lijo,I suspect incorrect valve clearance here as I had told you before.What clearance had Joel suggested you,let us know.

          D.I.Y-Valve clearance setting RTR180
          D.I.Y-RTR180 brake fluid replacing/brake bleeding
          D.I.Y-RTR180 brake pad replacing/cleaning
          Exploded view of Mikuni BS-29 carb

          A motorcycle functions entirely in accordance with the laws of reason, and a study of the art of motorcycle maintenance is really a miniature study of the art of rationality itself.

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by psr View Post
            From all your report and recollection the problem seem to be territorial.....ie it happens only in your place..you have gone up to Leh without issues...
            I would request you to change the Petrol Station from where you usually fill up, and go to a company owned outlet,and see if there is any change.
            Since you are in Kerala and is monsoon time, please check and clean air filter more often as damp air congests air filters and in some cases even form fungus .
            But the best solution can be from the person who did your over bore conversion .
            Hmmm, I'll change the pump, but not really sure. Thank you
            Originally posted by haxor View Post
            have you cleaned the carb?do you think accelerator cable is creating any prob?
            no, these gave been checked and ruled out

            Originally posted by Drifty View Post
            Lijo,I suspect incorrect valve clearance here as I had told you before.What clearance had Joel suggested you,let us know.
            If it is, once new engine is set, it should be resolved right. Valve settings are stock only as per Joel

            Comment

            • #7
              @Lijo - Please diagnoise the problem one by one.
              YOu said, the bike was behaving normal and powerful at once, but has lost throttle response at one point. When you mean low throttle response, are you referring to low response with regards to the twist on the throttle grip? Is the engine feeling strong after 5k rpm? Better still, call me tomorrow and I will suggest you a few things to check on.
              sigpic
              [email protected]

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Joel View Post
                @Lijo - Please diagnoise the problem one by one.
                YOu said, the bike was behaving normal and powerful at once, but has lost throttle response at one point. When you mean low throttle response, are you referring to low response with regards to the twist on the throttle grip?.
                exactly

                Originally posted by Joel View Post
                Is the engine feeling strong after 5k rpm? Better still, call me tomorrow and I will suggest you a few things to check on.
                No, it is not. Sure will call you.

                -------------------

                BTW... here is the craziest of things.. while returning from office today, I was pushing the bike, was hardly around 85kmph on odo.. and then, the bike lurches forward.. I close throttle, open again... the bike pulls away just as it did after run-in. Then till home I tested at all gear, through out the rpm range. As soon as I give throttle, bike accelerates away to glory...
                Let me see what happens tomorrow morning.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by lijok View Post
                  exactly


                  No, it is not. Sure will call you.

                  -------------------

                  BTW... here is the craziest of things.. while returning from office today, I was pushing the bike, was hardly around 85kmph on odo.. and then, the bike lurches forward.. I close throttle, open again... the bike pulls away just as it did after run-in. Then till home I tested at all gear, through out the rpm range. As soon as I give throttle, bike accelerates away to glory...
                  Let me see what happens tomorrow morning.
                  Check for water contamination of Petrol.....or Throttle slide not moving freely with Vacuum.
                  When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by psr View Post
                    Check for water contamination of Petrol.....or Throttle slide not moving freely with Vacuum.
                    Last week I'd emptied the tank, removed and cleaned the stainer, took out as much fuel as possible from tank and let it dry for a couple of hours... will do it again as soon as fuel goes down this time around also...

                    Reg Throttle slide.. can you please elaborate... there is no problem of movement at the throttle grip...

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Answer

                      Hi dude,
                      U want must change cdi bcoz it change ignition timing in inital and full advance timing. u want detail contact me in mail r contact number..
                      [email protected]

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dhaya View Post
                        Hi dude,
                        U want must change cdi bcoz it change ignition timing in inital and full advance timing. u want detail contact me in mail r contact number..
                        The RTR uses a TCI unit to control ignition timing. I changed it first, but that did not change anything...

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          @Lijok

                          I had suspected as much when you had posted in the RTR thread that TCI unit has been changed by the SVC.That it in all probability had nothing to do with it.
                          Since i think you've reverted back to stock jets,i think there's either a problem with the carb diaphragm and slide,or there's a vacuum leak somewhere in the intake manifold or carb.
                          Then if you rule out the carb related issues like the ones mentioned above,then it could mean a compression leak in the engine.I suspect this because,the symptoms you've mentioned of the bike reaching 100 when the throttle is opened slowly and that speed's attained in a gradual manner.Then your mentioning that it lacks the racing throttle response are all indicative of compression leak.
                          The compression leak can be from many things and since now the engine has a higher compression rate the spark plug might not be showing it.If any oil's entering the combustion chamber because of a valve-train issue.If this is not the case,then the compression might be leaking out due to bad gasket etc.
                          Get a compression check done and i'm sure joel's suggestion will work in sorting out this issue than ours.
                          Life begins, once you hit the power band !!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            There is nothing wrong with the ignition system. Leave that alone.
                            sigpic
                            [email protected]

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gixxer_junkie_m View Post
                              @Lijok

                              I had suspected as much when you had posted in the RTR thread that TCI unit has been changed by the SVC.That it in all probability had nothing to do with it.
                              Since i think you've reverted back to stock jets,i think there's either a problem with the carb diaphragm and slide,or there's a vacuum leak somewhere in the intake manifold or carb.
                              Then if you rule out the carb related issues like the ones mentioned above,then it could mean a compression leak in the engine.I suspect this because,the symptoms you've mentioned of the bike reaching 100 when the throttle is opened slowly and that speed's attained in a gradual manner.Then your mentioning that it lacks the racing throttle response are all indicative of compression leak.
                              The compression leak can be from many things and since now the engine has a higher compression rate the spark plug might notn be showing it.If any oil's entering the combustion chamber because of a valve-train issue.If this is not the case,then the compression might be leaking out due to bad gasket etc.
                              Get a compression check done and i'm sure joel's suggestion will work in sorting out this issue than ours.
                              Originally posted by Joel View Post
                              There is nothing wrong with the ignition system. Leave that alone.
                              ok i'll check the compression and post results

                              Comment

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