Since '02 xBhp is different things to different people. From a close knit national community of bikers to India's only motorcycling lifestyle magazine and a place to make like-minded biker friends. Join us

Castrol Power 1

Scan – see – think – act.

Our Partner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Yamaha Gladiator RS 2008 not performing on top end

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Yamaha Gladiator RS 2008 not performing on top end

    Hi, I have a Gladiator RS 2008 make with almost 32000 on the odo and i am facing the following issues:

    • Top speed has dropped from 108kph@8000RPM to max 70kph@7000RPM.
    • Irrespective of throttle, bike can't / doesn't rev beyond 7000RPM in 5th gear but when revved in neutral, it revs freely to 10000PRM+
    • Mileage has dropped drastically to 30-32kpl while ridden at max speed i.e. 70kph (previously it has been run at 90-100 kph with 45kpl mileage)

    Now before y'all ask me about details, let me jot down the performance and maintenance history:
    • updateFlushed out the wurth oil and replaced with Gulf Pride 4T Plus 20W40 yesterday. (14 Jul)
    • updateAir Filters: paper type, replaced yesterday (14 Jul)
    • updateCarburetor: Cleaned thoroughly again yesterday.(14 Jul)
    • Carb tuning: I do the carb tuning myself, and right now it's set to 4 turns from the fully-closed position.
    • Piston head & valves overhauled at 28000KMs and has been thru a decent run-in as well.
    • updateClutch plates changed today (15 Jul)
    • Exhaust: Normal, no white/black smoke
    • Chain: OK, oiling & tightening done 500 kms back
    • updateSpark Plugs: Replaced with NGK Iridium yesterday (14 Jul)
    • Brakes: No gripping/friction under normal circumstances.

    Help me out with finding a solution to all these issues - After after all that overhauling and spending around 2000 on the bike, It's still lacking in performance. I am really going mad and am clueless now
    Last edited by bbsrailfan; 07-15-2012, 11:04 PM. Reason: Updated info after overhaul on 14-15 Jul

    Biking is not about how many Km/h you put on your Speedo. It's about how many miles you put on your Odo. Ride Safe, Ride Long!


  • #2
    Query Approved
    Advice is a form of nostalgia.
    Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

    Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

    Comment


    • #3
      What do you mean by
      Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post
      Air Filters: paper type, self-cleaned 500kms back (wash-dry-compressed air)
      did you water washed the air filter??
      If so then its wasted. Change it. Paper filters are not ment to be wet.

      Another thing, was your bike able to hit 8k rpm after the valve job? Do you have any starting problem?
      http://www.facebook.com/ateesh.kumar

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for Approving this thread, Mods.

        Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post
        What do you mean by

        did you water washed the air filter??
        If so then its wasted. Change it. Paper filters are not ment to be wet.

        Another thing, was your bike able to hit 8k rpm after the valve job? Do you have any starting problem?
        Saw a video on youtube where a guy demonstrated by washing his airfilter and sun-drying it to make it work good as new

        Yes, I was able to hit 8500RPM after the valve job and I don't have any starting problem. Even on cold mornings, the bike starts on the first crank (ES) or 2nd Kick (KS)

        Just curious, why can't the bike reach the actual redline of 10000RPM when it's under load?

        Biking is not about how many Km/h you put on your Speedo. It's about how many miles you put on your Odo. Ride Safe, Ride Long!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post
          Saw a video on youtube where a guy demonstrated by washing his airfilter and sun-drying it to make it work good as new

          Yes, I was able to hit 8500RPM after the valve job and I don't have any starting problem. Even on cold mornings, the bike starts on the first crank (ES) or 2nd Kick (KS)

          Just curious, why can't the bike reach the actual redline of 10000RPM when it's under load?
          road engines produce max bhp & torque at much lower rpm compared to redline.
          For glady max bhp rpm is 8k and max torque rpm is 6k.
          Now torque is the thing which pulls a bike (or anything). After 6k it starts dropping, but still there is increase in bhp output with increase in rpm till 8k. But after 8k there's massive drop in torque & bhp output. That's why it 'struggles' to go beyond 8k rpm.
          About the air filter, its element gets damaged after getting wet (even after drying it stays damaged) thereby restricting airflow.
          You sure youtube video featured paper type filter? (sorry for cross-questioning you) but youtube things doesnt work all the time.
          Is your bike is able to hit 8k rpm in 4th or 3rd gear?
          And confirm carb is clean or not. And also get a compression test done.
          http://www.facebook.com/ateesh.kumar

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post
            road engines produce max bhp & torque at much lower rpm compared to redline.
            For glady max bhp rpm is 8k and max torque rpm is 6k.
            Now torque is the thing which pulls a bike (or anything). After 6k it starts dropping, but still there is increase in bhp output with increase in rpm till 8k. But after 8k there's massive drop in torque & bhp output. That's why it 'struggles' to go beyond 8k rpm.
            About the air filter, its element gets damaged after getting wet (even after drying it stays damaged) thereby restricting airflow.
            You sure youtube video featured paper type filter? (sorry for cross-questioning you) but youtube things doesnt work all the time.
            Is your bike is able to hit 8k rpm in 4th or 3rd gear?
            And confirm carb is clean or not. And also get a compression test done.
            Thanks for the info. The video which i saw on YouTube was for Gladiator specifically and he had the same yellow-colored paper filters which I currently have on my bike.

            BTW, after 'cleaning' the filters, I felt my bike was more powerful and noisier (Noisy meaning somewhat phat-phat type like a Fiero or a Pulsar and and not the smooth whirrrr like Honda & Yamaha) Maybe it was sipping more fuel as well, but that was not noticeable until I noticed the severe drop yday after a long ride when 3.75L of fuel got sipped away in just 120 km.

            Didn't check whether I can hit 8000RPM in other gears - never felt the need to. I normally shift gears at 6000 RPM except on highways where I can take the beyond 70kph. Will check today on the way back home and confirm.

            As I mentioned in the 1st post, my mech told me he's cleaned the carb, but I have no means of knowing. How can i check it manually/at home? Also, how to do a compression test? Can I (or my local mech) do it myself or do I need to go to some Auth Service Center?

            OT: I am relatively new to mechanics. Until recently, I used to run to my mech for every small niggle. Only recently I have started getting my hands dirty and have learnt the basics like carb adjustment, sparkplug cleaning, airfilter cleaning (OK, I screwed up this time :P) etc.
            Last edited by bbsrailfan; 07-09-2012, 06:32 PM.

            Biking is not about how many Km/h you put on your Speedo. It's about how many miles you put on your Odo. Ride Safe, Ride Long!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post
              As I mentioned in the 1st post, my mech told me he's cleaned the carb, but I have no means of knowing. How can i check it manually/at home? Also, how to do a compression test? Can I (or my local mech) do it myself or do I need to go to some Auth Service Center?
              befor opening up carb tell me is there any fluctuation in rpm when idling and is there any hiccup when throttle is given when not in gear? How's the throttel response? When you shut the throttel after reving it upto 7-8k rpm, does the rpms comes down to idle quickly or not?
              If most of the answers are yes then your carb needs cleaning and/or tuning.
              for checking carb at home, remove carb from bike, usually connected with rubber boots kind of thing (to the carb intake & carb outlet). Needs lots of force, dont damage the rubber boots. (you may need to unplug fuel line & accelerator cable)
              now with the carb in your hands look at the throttel body (also called butterfly) it should be clean. Open float bowl (after draining fuel from it) it should be clean. Remove jets, you should be able to see through jets (meaning clean holes)
              open top part of carb, there's diaphram with a spring, it should be clean from both sides, diaphram is connected with slide & slide is connected with needel. Clean everything. Done. Now replace everything back.
              Before taking up this task i'd suggest refer as much videos & articles as much possible on the topic from the internet.
              And for compression testing you need a air pressure gauge connected to spark plug hole instead of spark plug via a adapter. With the gauge connected, crank the engine 5-6 times and note the reading on the gauge. Done.
              All this can be done at svc or even at individual mechanic, if he is equipped.
              P.s. Stay with bike whenever its been worked/serviced, it helps a lot.
              http://www.facebook.com/ateesh.kumar

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post
                befor opening up carb tell me is there any fluctuation in rpm when idling and is there any hiccup when throttle is given when not in gear? How's the throttel response? When you shut the throttel after reving it upto 7-8k rpm, does the rpms comes down to idle quickly or not?

                If most of the answers are yes then your carb needs cleaning and/or tuning.
                • Very slight or negligible fluctuation while idling. Actually I take that fluctuation as a baseline for carb tuning (from this article)
                • No hiccups while revving in neutral. Goes up all the way to 10000RPM.
                • Throttle response is slightly laggy, but maybe that's coz I have kept it tuned slightly below optimal?
                • Not sure that's an ideal time, but when revved, my RPM comes down from 8K to 2K in about 3 secs - not sure if that's quick or slow .

                However, some noteworthy add-on points:
                • While revving higher than 3000RPM on neutral, the exhaust misfires every 4-5 seconds. A kind of sudden loud 'phat', like an explosion of gases. Does my exhaust pipe need cleaning?
                • That strange squealing sound - it wasn't there prior to the valve job. It has propped up after the valve job and I just can't live with it. The mech says its all normal but i just don't digest his story.
                • Noticed y'day, this issue wasnt there earlier - even when i close the fuel screw completely (in the carb), the engine doesn't die completely, it still manages to idle. Is my carb damaged?


                Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post
                for checking carb at home, remove carb from bike, usually connected with rubber boots kind of thing (to the carb intake & carb outlet). Needs lots of force, dont damage the rubber boots. (you may need to unplug fuel line & accelerator cable)
                now with the carb in your hands look at the throttel body (also called butterfly) it should be clean. Open float bowl (after draining fuel from it) it should be clean. Remove jets, you should be able to see through jets (meaning clean holes)
                open top part of carb, there's diaphram with a spring, it should be clean from both sides, diaphram is connected with slide & slide is connected with needel. Clean everything. Done. Now replace everything back.
                Before taking up this task i'd suggest refer as much videos & articles as much possible on the topic from the internet.
                Wow, that IS complicated I would take to my mechand ask him to disassemble. Don't want to try myself, incase I end up screwing up the whole thing.
                Last edited by bbsrailfan; 07-09-2012, 07:33 PM.

                Biking is not about how many Km/h you put on your Speedo. It's about how many miles you put on your Odo. Ride Safe, Ride Long!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well 3sec for 8k rpm to 2k rpm is kinda slow, should be ~ 2 sec.
                  That backfire is also telling AFR is not optimal.
                  May be intake has developed a leak (causing lean conditions) or may either of the valves has developed a leak (directly causing a backfire).
                  can you post a pic of your spark plug electrode tip? I feel to check AFR. (You can also do this by refering Spark Plugs or Spark Plugs)
                  cant say much about the carb condition over the internet, that's also possible.
                  You should consult your mechanic and few others for several opinions. One thing is sure, your mechanic is not good or he doesnt want your bike to be good.
                  Last edited by Honda_CBF; 07-09-2012, 11:21 PM.
                  http://www.facebook.com/ateesh.kumar

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post
                    Well 3sec for 8k rpm to 2k rpm is kinda slow, should be ~ 2 sec.
                    That backfire is also telling AFR is not optimal.
                    May be intake has developed a leak (causing lean conditions) or may either of the valves has developed a leak (directly causing a backfire).
                    can you post a pic of your spark plug electrode tip? I feel to check AFR.
                    cant say much about the carb condition over the internet, that's also possible.
                    You should consult your mechanic and few others for several opinions. One thing is sure, your mechanic is not good or he doesnt want your bike to be good.
                    Noob question, what's AFR and how do I check it? Will post a pic of the spark plugs tomorrow morning. Too dark now.

                    BTW i checked the max RPMs of the bike in 3rd & 4th. It managed 7500 RPM in 3rd somehow, but didnt cross 7000 even in 4th.

                    Are you sure nothing's wrong with the exhause pipe that's causing the backfire? I read here that people are installing 'free flow exhausts' to boost the performance. Any chances that my exhaust is clogged with soot & tht's causing a performance degrade?

                    Biking is not about how many Km/h you put on your Speedo. It's about how many miles you put on your Odo. Ride Safe, Ride Long!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post
                      Noob question, what's AFR and how do I check it? Will post a pic of the spark plugs tomorrow morning. Too dark now.

                      BTW i checked the max RPMs of the bike in 3rd & 4th. It managed 7500 RPM in 3rd somehow, but didnt cross 7000 even in 4th.

                      Are you sure nothing's wrong with the exhause pipe that's causing the backfire? I read here that people are installing 'free flow exhausts' to boost the performance. Any chances that my exhaust is clogged with soot & tht's causing a performance degrade?
                      AFR means Air Fuel Ratio. Its the same tuning screw that you said you have set at 4 turns anti clockwise. I doubt that the cleaning job was perfect, go to Yamaha Service Center and get that properly done, also tuning adjusted to normal ride conditions. (I think it has to be between 3.5 turns to 4.5 turns depending on your bike, every bike has its own turn ratio). Soot wont cause that phat sound, that misfire can be caused due to poor spark, check the spark plug. Unless your piston rings have worn out and engine is drinking oil and you can see black oozy liquid out of the silencer you dont have to open to clean the silencer. How many km back had you changed it? See what colour the spark plug tip looks. If its whitish, then yor are running too lean, and if its soot black then you have set the AFR to rich.
                      Last edited by prajnyan; 07-10-2012, 05:51 AM.
                      There are no short-cuts to any place worth going. So ride safe when you are treading uncharted roads.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bbsrailfan View Post
                        Noob question, what's AFR and how do I check it? Will post a pic of the spark plugs tomorrow morning. Too dark now.

                        BTW i checked the max RPMs of the bike in 3rd & 4th. It managed 7500 RPM in 3rd somehow, but didnt cross 7000 even in 4th.

                        Are you sure nothing's wrong with the exhause pipe that's causing the backfire? I read here that people are installing 'free flow exhausts' to boost the performance. Any chances that my exhaust is clogged with soot & tht's causing a performance degrade?
                        Air Fuel Ratio (AFR).
                        Exhaust pipes of 4 strokes dont need cleaning, unless bike is smoking. So if you cant see any damages (rust holes etc) then there's aint any.
                        I suggest you perform following in the same order:
                        -change airfilter
                        -look for leakage on intake manifold
                        -post a pic of spark plugs tip (we will figure out AFR)
                        -get mechanic's/svc's opinions and continue troubleshooting if problem not solved.
                        http://www.facebook.com/ateesh.kumar

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by prajnyan View Post
                          I doubt that the cleaning job was perfect, go to Yamaha Service Center and get that properly done, also tuning adjusted to normal ride conditions.

                          Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post
                          Air Fuel Ratio (AFR).
                          Exhaust pipes of 4 strokes dont need cleaning, unless bike is smoking. So if you cant see any damages (rust holes etc) then there's aint any.
                          I suggest you perform following in the same order:
                          -change airfilter
                          -look for leakage on intake manifold
                          -post a pic of spark plugs tip (we will figure out AFR)
                          -get mechanic's/svc's opinions and continue troubleshooting if problem not solved.
                          Thanks for the information guys. So just to sum up,
                          • I need to replace my air filter.
                          • I need to re-check my AFR (by checking the spark plugs)
                          • I don't need to clean my exhausts,


                          Will do that and update here. Can I get a foam type filter for the Gladi - which can be cleaned and maintained easily? What are the tradeoffs/compromises if I put a foam-type filter??

                          I am still clueless about that squeaking noise at low RPMs. Now a days it's existing all the way till 3000RPM

                          @Honda_CBF : Yesterday evening, I pushed my bike to 7000+ RPM to testing purposes, as I told you.

                          Since then, my engine has become very noisy, almost like a 1st generation Fiero or a CBZ. It feels massively powerful as well, but the 'beats' seem just too loud and pronounced. Please note that I haven;t made any adjustments whatsoever. Though the power feels nice, I am scared if something is terribly wrong which may affect the engine life.

                          I mean, Yamaha's are not supposed to be noisy! Even the FZ' series and the R1 are a lot quieter than a Pulsar. The only noisy Yamaha's are the RXs

                          Biking is not about how many Km/h you put on your Speedo. It's about how many miles you put on your Odo. Ride Safe, Ride Long!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Can you elaborate on the squeaky noise? Leaky Intake manifold can do that, but should be there at all rpms & not only till 3k rpm.
                            Yes you can get a foam filter. Trade off is more time needed for maintainence of it say washing, drying, oil'in and it can't be cleaned with blowing air through it. Pros of it are: its 'free-er' flowing element than paper elements. Cheaper to buy & needs less changes than paper type.
                            Old glady had a foam filter you can use it but you may need to change the air box with of older glady.
                            A jugaad for foam type filter with your current air box is to cut a foam piece to fit snugly in place of paper type filter.
                            Calling for experts plz diagnose this squeaky & top speed issue..
                            http://www.facebook.com/ateesh.kumar

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Honda_CBF View Post
                              Can you elaborate on the squeaky noise? Leaky Intake manifold can do that, but should be there at all rpms & not only till 3k rpm.
                              Yes you can get a foam filter. Trade off is more time needed for maintainence of it say washing, drying, oil'in and it can't be cleaned with blowing air through it. Pros of it are: its 'free-er' flowing element than paper elements. Cheaper to buy & needs less changes than paper type.
                              Old glady had a foam filter you can use it but you may need to change the air box with of older glady.
                              A jugaad for foam type filter with your current air box is to cut a foam piece to fit snugly in place of paper type filter.
                              Calling for experts plz diagnose this squeaky & top speed issue..

                              Ok, here's a recording. You can easily make out the squeaking noise after about 7-10 secs, and it continues till the end of the recording.

                              Download/Access here: https://www.box.com/s/4b561fe504ee806022b7

                              Also added the link to this file on the first post so that senior members may diagnose easily.

                              Thanks for the info about foam filters, think I will go for one. Atleast I can clean it as and when needed, without much pain.

                              Biking is not about how many Km/h you put on your Speedo. It's about how many miles you put on your Odo. Ride Safe, Ride Long!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X