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Battery discharge during short storage

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  • Battery discharge during short storage

    Hi,

    I noticed this recently. My Pulsar 150 DTSi 2009 with Exide Acid Battery (out of warranty) discharged significantly (self starter stopped working) within 2 weeks of storage. Since I had experienced such "surprises" before, I rode on for a week thinking it will charge during my regular rides of 20-30 kilometres daily commute. But, after a week, situation remained same. Being hard pressed for time, I bought Amaron Beta for 1700. Only during the replacement activity did it occur to me all the loop holes.

    1. The battery vendor did not check my existing battery voltage. He merely removed it off and replaced with new one.
    2. After replacing the new one, he checked it with volt meter or Ammeter (not sure) and said it has to be 14. Not sure how he reached this magical number 14. He asked me to start the bike and rev it a bit. Even at 10000 RPM, my bike was pushing in 13 instead of 14.
    3. He checked my previous battery and found it was 11.2 instead of 14. Asked me to change the battery charging coil to fix this issue. Cost me another 550 for Bajaj Genuine.

    Though I'm not jumping into conclusion, my experience is hazy. Though I'm happy that I moved on to Maintenance Free battery, my conscience still does not allow me to move on.

    1. Would it have been better on my pocket, if I would have taken my battery to Exide service station and recharged professionally? Is it worth the cost?
    2. How would a mechanic check if my bike's circuit is leaking?

    All inputs are welcome.
    Safe riding prolongs life (bike & rider & public)

  • #2
    Query approved.
    (Been There Done That) x 3.25

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by sunilg View Post
      Query approved.
      Thanks Sunil for approving.

      I do remember seeing a new thread few week's back on battery, but this topic is to make fellow bikers aware of common on the ground problems/dilemma that a biker face's.
      Safe riding prolongs life (bike & rider & public)

      Comment


      • #4
        1. Would it have been better on my pocket, if I would have taken my battery to Exide service station and recharged professionally? Is it worth the cost?
        I think the battery would've served you for some more time, my 2008 Hunk is still running on stock battery, but still it depends on brands and usage.
        But anyways you got a maintenance free battery now!

        2. How would a mechanic check if my bike's circuit is leaking?
        Battery needs a higher voltage than its rated volts for charging it. Thats what the mechanic had mentioned, did he try removing the battery terminals and checked the charging voltage from coil directly and got this 13 V?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SatSon View Post
          1. Would it have been better on my pocket, if I would have taken my battery to Exide service station and recharged professionally? Is it worth the cost?
          I think the battery would've served you for some more time, my 2008 Hunk is still running on stock battery, but still it depends on brands and usage.
          But anyways you got a maintenance free battery now!

          2. How would a mechanic check if my bike's circuit is leaking?
          Battery needs a higher voltage than its rated volts for charging it. Thats what the mechanic had mentioned, did he try removing the battery terminals and checked the charging voltage from coil directly and got this 13 V?

          Thanks SatSon. He did not do this. Though he asked me to visit my regular bike service station and asked me to check for leak. Now, say even if I took my bike to mechanic, what is the right procedure to check leak in circuit? Ideally my bike is in disabled state, where will this leak occur and how to track it?
          Safe riding prolongs life (bike & rider & public)

          Comment


          • #6
            To the Thread Starter;

            Your mech didn't lie to you; 14 volts or more is the correct measure when Battery installed and engine running, but each bike have different RPM limit according to manufacturer's manual...but that is not of course 10000 RPM. The correct measurement must be mentioned in Bajaj's User manual under specification section. You need to find out.

            For Example; CBR250R generate 0.29kw under 5000 RPM which translate to mech's word / layman word it must show 14.** something at those battery terminal when RPM needle stay over 5K mark.....else battery need to recharge or else. And during engine off and Battery connected to the bikes terminal it must show at least 12.4 volts or more...unless starter motor will not work.

            -----------------------------------

            I also want to add here, charging battery is not a big deal. Anyone can do that if we got a OLD ups around at home. Almost all ups got overcharging protection....As a automobile battery charger they are far more advance. So you can forget about charging time. All UPS got trickle charge capability...once battery reached it optimal voltage it switched to trickle charge mode. So no harm.

            I do the same with my CBR's Battery which is a 6Ah Exide maintenance free battery. I don't take out my CBR at rainy season or wet day, due to it's design and cleaning the bike is complete PIA.....So this home charging is must one and life saver for me. I also charge my other bike's (Splender) battery too which is Lead Acid Battery and used it for closed to 5 years....that battery as healthy as new.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Neel08 View Post
              To the Thread Starter;

              Your mech didn't lie to you; 14 volts or more is the correct measure when Battery installed and engine running, but each bike have different RPM limit according to manufacturer's manual...but that is not of course 10000 RPM. The correct measurement must be mentioned in Bajaj's User manual under specification section. You need to find out.

              For Example; CBR250R generate 0.29kw under 5000 RPM which translate to mech's word / layman word it must show 14.** something at those battery terminal when RPM needle stay over 5K mark.....else battery need to recharge or else. And during engine off and Battery connected to the bikes terminal it must show at least 12.4 volts or more...unless starter motor will not work.

              -----------------------------------

              I also want to add here, charging battery is not a big deal. Anyone can do that if we got a OLD ups around at home. Almost all ups got overcharging protection....As a automobile battery charger they are far more advance. So you can forget about charging time. All UPS got trickle charge capability...once battery reached it optimal voltage it switched to trickle charge mode. So no harm.

              I do the same with my CBR's Battery which is a 6Ah Exide maintenance free battery. I don't take out my CBR at rainy season or wet day, due to it's design and cleaning the bike is complete PIA.....So this home charging is must one and life saver for me. I also charge my other bike's (Splender) battery too which is Lead Acid Battery and used it for closed to 5 years....that battery as healthy as new.
              Thanks Neel08. Any idea as to what is the foolproof way to check if my bike's electrical circuit is indeed closed and that there isn't any leak? I find it rather tough to understand what will mechanic do with my electrical to check for this..I really (REALLY) don't want them to screw my bike's wiring and make me shell my hard earned money. My bike does not have any additional blings or fancy add-ons. I maintain it as per manufacturer's design. Except for turn indicator beeper's my bike is clean.
              Safe riding prolongs life (bike & rider & public)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Prith View Post
                Thanks Neel08. Any idea as to what is the foolproof way to check if my bike's electrical circuit is indeed closed and that there isn't any leak? I find it rather tough to understand what will mechanic do with my electrical to check for this..I really (REALLY) don't want them to screw my bike's wiring and make me shell my hard earned money. My bike does not have any additional blings or fancy add-ons. I maintain it as per manufacturer's design. Except for turn indicator beeper's my bike is clean.
                After you change to new charging coil & Battery, what is the voltage reading shows in battery terminal with engine on as well as off ? If it shows the adequate as I mentioned in my previous post then nothing to worry and you are good to go. Enjoy your ride.

                ----------------------------------------
                If not, (then proceed)

                It is better if you can do this basic check up by yourself instead of going ASC.

                As you mentioned you got nothing extra but turn indicator beeper, they are known for sucking more voltage/current from battery when they are old . It is time to get rid of that, if you can't live without beeper try to clean the connector (plastic box enclosure which hold metal plate,multi channel config) which the beeper connect with. Check for any rust with all cable and connector as well as fuse box conector everything. Clean them.

                As I believe your bike's comes with LED strip stop light as well as some auto cancel indicator function,Auto Head Lamp DC cut off when engine not running (check for this circuit/sensor/conector too) , check those accordingly, for these you may need a complete electrical diagram for your bike (workshop manual) which can be sourced from only Bajaj ASC.

                AFAIK, I don't think there is foolproof way to check the bike's electrical in one go, all they do use a multi-meter and take reading from every possible/suspecting points (trial and error basis) & ask to replace adjoining parts (some ASC got tendency replace everything), Try to find a good-honest ASC who really want to diagnose your problem and give it through check ups.

                Though no idea about the Pro-biking facility or their advance tools.
                Last edited by Neel08; 09-18-2012, 03:43 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Take your bike to an Electrical Workshop or Exide ASC. Ask them to check for any dead cells in battery.If dead cells are there, u need a replacement of your battery. If cells are gud, Remove the battery and check the incoming voltage from the terminals only.Not by grounding to the body,There might be grounding issue also. Rev the engine and check whether the voltage is coming to max 14. something volts. It wont go beyond that as the regulator controls the voltage to a limit.If on idle engine, its showing above 14, then your charger is gud.now connect the battery and check the voltage again. It should be above 14. Then check for your electrical components like horn, Lights etc. There might be a short circuit in one of this components.

                  And Dude: Dont go for Amaron battery. Its not recommended by anyone other than Amaron Dealer. Amaron is only gud for 4 wheeler batteries. I went to some 4-5 battery dealers and checked. They told that almost all Amaron 2 wheeler batteries came back with complaints.So they stopped giving the same to customers. Hope your problem will get sorted very soon.
                  Happy & Safe Riding to All

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Neel08 View Post
                    After you change to new charging coil & Battery, what is the voltage reading shows in battery terminal with engine on as well as off ? If it shows the adequate as I mentioned in my previous post then nothing to worry and you are good to go. Enjoy your ride.

                    ----------------------------------------
                    If not, (then proceed)

                    It is better if you can do this basic check up by yourself instead of going ASC.

                    As you mentioned you got nothing extra but turn indicator beeper, they are known for sucking more voltage/current from battery when they are old . It is time to get rid of that, if you can't live without beeper try to clean the connector (plastic box enclosure which hold metal plate,multi channel config) which the beeper connect with. Check for any rust with all cable and connector as well as fuse box conector everything. Clean them.

                    As I believe your bike's comes with LED strip stop light as well as some auto cancel indicator function,Auto Head Lamp DC cut off when engine not running (check for this circuit/sensor/conector too) , check those accordingly, for these you may need a complete electrical diagram for your bike (workshop manual) which can be sourced from only Bajaj ASC.

                    AFAIK, I don't think there is foolproof way to check the bike's electrical in one go, all they do use a multi-meter and take reading from every possible/suspecting points (trial and error basis) & ask to replace adjoining parts (some ASC got tendency replace everything), Try to find a good-honest ASC who really want to diagnose your problem and give it through check ups.

                    Though no idea about the Pro-biking facility or their advance tools.

                    Thanks Neel. Beeper is little cumbersome. Though, I will check with the bikezone guys and get a second take from probiking. Very strange issue indeed.
                    Safe riding prolongs life (bike & rider & public)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vimalnair4u View Post
                      Take your bike to an Electrical Workshop or Exide ASC. Ask them to check for any dead cells in battery.If dead cells are there, u need a replacement of your battery. If cells are gud, Remove the battery and check the incoming voltage from the terminals only.Not by grounding to the body,There might be grounding issue also. Rev the engine and check whether the voltage is coming to max 14. something volts. It wont go beyond that as the regulator controls the voltage to a limit.If on idle engine, its showing above 14, then your charger is gud.now connect the battery and check the voltage again. It should be above 14. Then check for your electrical components like horn, Lights etc. There might be a short circuit in one of this components.

                      And Dude: Dont go for Amaron battery. Its not recommended by anyone other than Amaron Dealer. Amaron is only gud for 4 wheeler batteries. I went to some 4-5 battery dealers and checked. They told that almost all Amaron 2 wheeler batteries came back with complaints.So they stopped giving the same to customers. Hope your problem will get sorted very soon.
                      Thanks vimalnair. I got Amaron from authorized dealer in my location. I did hear about complaints from service guys, but they were sure of its long standing warranty and customer service. I haven't given away my old Exide battery yet, will keep that as backup incase I need one if Amaron fails. I will be taking it to Exide service station for checkup.
                      Safe riding prolongs life (bike & rider & public)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Check your horn connection also, Earlier there was a battery discharging in my bike too. When checked, the culprit was horn, If i press horn, the horn unit itself was getting red hot and the horn wires also started melting, Electrician told me to disconnect and remove the horn and run for 2 days and check. I did and found that Battery is in full charge. Changed the horn unit and now its good.
                        Happy & Safe Riding to All

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Prith View Post
                          Hi,

                          I noticed this recently....
                          1. Would it have been better on my pocket, if I would have taken my battery to Exide service station and recharged professionally? Is it worth the cost?
                          2. How would a mechanic check if my bike's circuit is leaking?
                          All inputs are welcome.
                          Follow the steps:
                          1. Check for the voltage across the battery with engine off. If its greater than 12V then battery is OK otherwise your battery needs to be recharged if its lower than 11V then in all probability your battery is dead.
                          2. Check for the voltage across the battery with the engine on. It should be >14V at >=5000 RPM, if its not there's some fault in the charging circuit.
                          3. Disconnect the +ve terminal of the battery and connect it to the red wire of the multimeter, connect the black wire of the multimeter to the battery +ve terminal. In this step make sure you're using the multimeter in 'Ammeter mode'.
                          4. Start the bike, switch on the headlamp (for full DC bikes) rev up the bike upto 4~5k RPM and see the multimeter readings, they must be 0 or +ve above 2k ~ 4k RPM for a healthy RR, if not then change the RR and see if it solves the issue. A pulsar UG4 RR costs Rs. 450 only.

                          Report back after you've done all the above. Good luck!!!
                          Last edited by Abhijeet Bhattacharjee; 09-28-2012, 12:44 AM. Reason: Corrections!!!
                          Its the fusion of a two wheeled machine & a human being which creates a true biker.

                          Fine me on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/krazzykid.abhijeet

                          Pulsar spare parts price list (indicative only):
                          http://www.scribd.com/doc/42303845/P...re-Parts-Price
                          http://www.scribd.com/doc/99085008/Bajaj-180-Pulsar-UG3

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Abhijeet Bhattacharjee View Post
                            Follow the steps:
                            1. Check for the voltage across the battery with engine off. If its greater than 12V then battery is OK otherwise your battery needs to be recharged if its lower than 11V then in all probability your battery is dead.
                            2. Check for the voltage across the battery with the engine on. It should be >14V at >=5000 RPM, if its not there's some fault in the charging circuit.
                            3. Disconnect the +ve terminal of the battery and connect it to the red wire of the multimeter, connect the black wire of the multimeter to the battery +ve terminal. In this step make sure you're using the multimeter in 'Ammeter mode'.
                            4. Start the bike, switch on the headlamp (for full DC bikes) rev up the bike upto 4~5k RPM and see the multimeter readings, they must be atleast 3A for a healthy RR, if not then change the RR and see if it solves the issue. A pulsar UG4 RR costs Rs. 450 only.

                            Report back after you've done all the above. Good luck!!!

                            Thanks Abhijeet.

                            I did all these tests and find that my bike still does not produce 14V at 5000 to 7000 rpm. Old battery is anyway stored in safe place and I will take it to Exide service centre for servicing. I have also changed charging coil, I guess this is RR.

                            What more to check ?
                            Safe riding prolongs life (bike & rider & public)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Prith View Post
                              Thanks Abhijeet.
                              What more to check ?
                              There's a mistake in the above lines, when you're checking the current (with headlamp switched ON), look out for 0 or +ve readings in the multimeter. -ve reading implies battery is being discharged and +ve implies battery is being charged.
                              Swap your current RR with a healthy RR, Pulsar UG4 RR costs only Rs. 450.
                              Its the fusion of a two wheeled machine & a human being which creates a true biker.

                              Fine me on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/krazzykid.abhijeet

                              Pulsar spare parts price list (indicative only):
                              http://www.scribd.com/doc/42303845/P...re-Parts-Price
                              http://www.scribd.com/doc/99085008/Bajaj-180-Pulsar-UG3

                              Comment

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