Hero

Hero needn't worry.. at least till its current models run on the Honda Supplied/Provided engines. Whether Hero hold the rights to use the same Honda provided engines post 2014..?? I am not sure..

.. but I probably think that they would have bought the rights completely to at least a few crucial engines (like that of the Splendor/Passion) is not for the entire range.

Till Hero bikes have the Honda engines in them, they don't need to worry much. But in the long run .. say a decade later (in 2022), it will be true test for Hero.



Honda

Honda must have charged Hero a fortune for developing/giving the Impulse and soon to be launched Passion Pro X and Ignitor and yes the Maestro too.

Honda rules comfortably big time in the automatic scooter scene with the Activa. With the "Yuga" and Honda seems to be aiming at Hero's jugular i.e. the Hero and Passion. But even probably Honda knows that it could take some time.. like the Activa has taken to establish itself..

... probably a decade, which incidentally would be the time when Hero probably should be the most vulnerable.



Bajaj

Bajaj has a strong R&D and going by the initial reviews the Pulsar 200NS has generated, the next generation of products should be on a different plane altogether in terms of refinement, performance and reliability.

Buying 40% (currently) and the association with KTM is probably one of Mr. Bajaj's master strokes. The Pulsar is an established brand and the Discover has proved that it has carved a place for itself too. But for future growth can Bajaj take advantage of the stagnation of the Splendor/Passion? Or would Honda's Yuga take away the advantage? Bajaj has already decided not to focus on the growing automatic scooters and that itself takes away a chunk of potential sales numbers.

But as the article (posted at the beginning of this thread) mentions, Bajaj is thinking more from the Global perspective than than just in India. Now for the the sake of getting better and bigger Pulsars, I just hope that Bajaj's foreign ambitions are not limited to underdeveloped/developing African markets like Nigeria.



TVS Motor

But where does this leave TVS Motor..??

TVS has enough products to keep the mango people happy.With the upcoming victor replacement sometime in the near future, it will chug along. But,they've definitely lost the opportunity of being a force to reckon with. I see sizeable number of scootys,wegos and starcitys and that's good for them but the RTR is starting to age ( It still being one of the better bikes out there is a whole different story altogether) and with the competition hammering it with amazing new gen bikes, I don't expect much..
I don't see them threatening the aforementioned big three anytime soon with such a reluctant and timid approach

I do not agree TVS has many products to keep people happy. Leave the scooters aside. Talking of motorcycles, among the current bikes in production, the Apache 160/180 are the only products visible on roads in good numbers. Some star city's and very few Flames can be seen. But these are all very basic products. Even the mango people are now more buying 125-150cc products and not just 100-110cc products. Even there was difference between the older pulsars like P220F having a Fairing, Grab rails were different for 200-220 were notable and P135LS had a complete different design. Avenger (an exclusitivity), Discover and Platina are again distinct models. P200NS is a distinct model. Coming to Hero they have so many distinct models. Agreed that many are just copy of Honda like Ignitor but theres a very good variety. ZMA, ZMR, CBZ Xtreme, Hunk, Impulse, Glamour, Splendor, Passion etc. are distinct models. HMSI has many models like Unicorn, Dazzler, Shine, Stunner, Twister, CBR150, CBR250. In comparison to that TVS had only upgraded stickers on the Apache and the model looks dated now. They need to have some more variety in their products (especially >=150cc products). While I appreciate developing clutchless technology on a bike, I found this move to be rather un-clever. When you aren't making huge profits why to develop a technology which won't exicte people? People drive motorcycles due to the sheer excitement and gearbox is one of the most important things. 99.99% people would not want to drive gearless, clutchless motorcycles. They should have utilised their Hard-Earned money in developing a good 150cc or a 200cc flagship product. The result we see. Its like "Eid ka Chand" to find a Jive on roads even without any competition (no other clutchless bike in that segment.

There are several reasons for them to worry and with 2 bikes scheduled to be launched this year they have a big reason to worry. One is the launch of the dream Yuga and another reason is this........the attached pictures.

So Bajaj's new engine though may not feature triple spark (due to smaller head) but would feature refinement carried down from P200NS which could be a market dominator in its segment. We can see new features like Digital Speedometer, Monoshock, supposedly bigger Disc brakes, 200NS type alloys, better design ofcourse & a good looking muffler in this yet to be launched Discover (or Pulsar? ).
After this bike's launch Hero would face big heat from Bajaj. These two products would definitely make the Munjals as wells as AVL sweat.

I fail to understand how's the Dream Yuga a big threat ? There is nothing special in this bike. same 110 CC engine (as that of Twister) and the same common looks (as that of Shine) and no extra features, how will this bike change the market game?
Yes, I totally agree on the second part. As you have clearly pointed on the expected features, this so-called-new-gen-Pulsar/Discover (Discover, most prabably) has much more features in comparison with other in the segment...

Do count in scooters as they bring in the numbers too. I agree that they don't have a competent product in the 100-125cc space, but they do have products which sadly aren't working for them.The brand value of a city or a flame is almost nil when you compare it with the competition like say a discover. Hopefully,the upcoming Victor replacement should do them some good.

Agreed. Atleast not till they have a robust service network in rural areas too.Add to that the attitude of the service centre people.It will surely rake in the numbers for Honda but not something that Hero should be worried about in the immediate future

P.S:Please add a new gen Apache to the wishlist, something that desperately needs to be done

Why I said this is because Hero's bread and butter segment is the 100cc segment. Even rural and small towns where Hero dominates largely, people are very 'Honda minded' as I have seen and talked to them about bikes. So when a 110cc Yuga is launched people won't mind buying a 10-13cc bike more and it would be an upgrade for them since they are bored out of their splendors.

Q: Why is it special when Twister couldn't do much?
A: Twister is around 3.5K more expensive to splendor and has a style statement. As far as my experience, the rural people find a bike more reliable if it has a plane basic design which the Yuga has. Also it would be manufactured in china and the Cost would be equal to a splendor and Honda has already expressed that they are now concentrating on small towns. So Honda is doing nothing but trying to gain the customers of Hero Honda.

Nothing can ever be Off Topic (OT) in this thread, because the title itself lists all 4 manufacturers.


Ok, Jokes apart, I agree with Payeng that TVS has a lot to worry. Their recent negative sales reports were a pointers of their apparent future.
Recently, their commuter bike Star City also got a 2012 update. Nothing very special in that anyways. Just some 5 year warranty (good thing), 83 kmpl ARAI certified mileage (Discover has 91 or so...) and lots of color combinations.

Why would a commuter go for Star City, instead of Frugal Discover, Reliably perceived Passion/ Splendor or sporty looks+handling Twister? I can't answer that question, even to myself...
Its the same problem that's with Yamaha Alba 106: Jack of some trades, king of none...(!)

Hero - Market leader in 100 cc segment
Honda - Market leader in gearless scooters
Bajaj - Market leader in performance segment

So, that leaves nothing to TVS. Looks like TVS is destined to play catchup forever. Same goes to Yamaha, they might launch some wonderful products, but they can't become market leader in any segment. To me it looks like TVS, Yamaha & Suzuki missed the bus in Indian market. But, of course they can generate good amount of sales volume without being a market leader. After all Indian market is not a small one by any measure.

Hero is a cycle manufacturer , Heros know indian market well , they still sell well in urban / metro s well better than competetion let alone rural/ semiurban area . ther services / availablity of spares are better . honda services are pathetic and un reliable.
Like TVS BAJAJ this company will rise due to advantages it has like market reach , strongest marketing , some blockbuster products in there kity, capital power , etc.

Bajaj needs scooter in its portfolio even imported from kawasaki , yamaha is bringign one , suzuki has one almost competing well with activa , TVS has going great with wego , mahindra

^^Rajiv Bajaj has made it clear enough that they don't want to get into scooters anytime soon, not until they become a 7-8 million unit selling company with bikes alone. I think that is still some 3-4 years away.

Do you even read before you quote an old post? The title was and still is misleading. It says "Hero powers on minus Honda" which to this date isnt true because Honda is still providing Hero all the tech and their older products to be rebadged as Hero products. So technically the title is incorrect or it shouldve said "Hero powers on Minus Honda Badge". Thats what i said back then.

Bajaj is very nervous & desperate, they are showing in the form of Advert of Discover, they are showing Hero showroom & World's largest seller Splendor and saying Discover is better than Splendor.

Bajaj has lost it's 2nd Position to Honda, Bajaj is not releasing India sales to hide the fact (that it is 3rd largest 2W maker).

Yes, True that Bajaj shows some competition pointing adverts and even I don't agree with Bajaj here. Kawasaki also showed a video of their drag with Hayabusa...? TVS also showed a video of their RTR 180 on track, with what was "SUSPECTED" to be R15.

Do you know why they do it? Maybe because they believe that the press can compare both the products and prefer theirs. There is some confidence- that our product is faster, better, or something. Then only the companies compare...

Oh Yeah?? Really? Well, we got that news around March-April. Thanks Seshadri ji anyways for refreshing our memories.
And did they hide this info??? Then what is the below info? Rumor??

It lists enough numbers to get everything clear. And tell me- is it that easy to hide sales? Do you even know that the shareholders, suppliers and many other stakeholders are interested in this data? And do you understand that Bajaj is now a listed company and can't afford to hide its performance?

And Read the title, will you? And why are you doing Bajaj bashing on a thread that was more focussed towards Hero's market without Honda?

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Moderator Note: Vipin, you've been around for a long time now. I'm warning you to stop the trash-talking/ OTs/ Wrong information, from this very moment. You've been following this hit and run policy- post a SPAM/ Off Topic and run away for few days.
As much as we really hate infracting members, you leave the staff with lesser other choices... Please. Stop posting all this.

Sorry, I don't see anywhere how much Bajaj has sold in India alone. If u know please clarify with some rudimentary maths. Prove Bajaj is 2 or 3 ?