re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

"Strong cult as RE has" you joking right?
Howsoever big RE gets, it would never ever come close to a Harleys following.


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re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

These pics are of a bike which could be the new HD500

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

Strong cult in USA and European countries, but do we really have a strong cult following for harley here in India, seriously?

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re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

This 500cc HD could prove to be the company's most important launch in our country, and could be a major success in a market like ours. We need to look at this launch from a wider perspective.

Naturally, HD will be trying to reach more people through their upcoming 500cc v-twin and eventually turn them into real customers. It could be a hit or a miss. But no doubt HD will try to increase its customer list. And this will always hurt at least one company in the similar business and it doesn’t have to be Royal Enfield necessarily. It could be any and/or all companies who might be offering motorcycles in the similar price range, which shall be anywhere between 3-4Lakhs realistically. See many people base their options simply on their budget. So a particular guy could be confused between 2 or more entirely different type of motorcycles at the same time if they fall under his budget. We have seen such examples, haven’t we?

Secondly, let’s not underestimate the magnetism of the brand Harley Davidson. It’s a brand that brings huge character with each of its motorcycles and a certain lifestyle to pride on! People who like to feel macho or manly often look to such brands and this is what is common between Harley Davidson and Royal Enfield. Yes, these are 2 absolutely different companies who have built their cult and legacies on different grounds. But like RE owners, even Harley owners equally worry about the sound of their motorcycles exhausts and vice versa. Owners of both motorcycles feel that their machines are among the manliest beasts on the road. And owners of both brands are almost equally reluctant to change and adapt to a more modern machine. This is how they are related and why RE could be the company that might be affected the most. It’s all about having a choice, and Harley could probably offer more of the macho image with their smallest motorcycle than the biggest motorcycle from RE! That is why no two companies have to produce same kind of motorcycles to eat into each other’s pie. In this case, it could be HD and RE.

We have to understand that HD will offer a choice in a motorcycle segment which seems to offer very satisfying performance but without burning a big hole in the owner’s pocket. And who wouldn’t love to see HD slugging it out in the more approachable segment? This might not be a hit in USA, but could be a success in a country like ours.

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

Nice discussion going on and enjoyed reading every post and let me crank it up some more

I tend to agree with @gyan_recl350 that there is indeed an RE culture which has established over a period of time. What I have observed is that cult is partly driven by nostalgia for the old school bullets which definitely is purely RE and the other partly driven by the adventure/machismo/outdoor kind of image, which I think comes from the Harley stable. I find that it's the people who are relatively young, owning REs, that gets its motivation by the later type mentioned above.HD is known world over for their cruisers and touring but when it comes to India it is RE who occupied that spot. They both share something in common which is about ruggedness, sense of adventure and presence on the road and love of motorcycling. If we exclude the other issues and just consider the two brands, there is something about that old british charm in RE which pulls certain people and in contrast HD is as american as they can get. They both have their followers.

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

Not because of something RE has established. Price is the most important factor for most of the owners. Price the 500cc harley at 2 lakh and see how much of a following harley would have. I agree with what RE has established, but, it established it in the absence of a harley and harleys being priced way high. Let them price their products equally and there would be no RE.

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re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

What has happened has happened and what has not is all speculation and assumption and calculation.

What I mean to say, you said RE created the cult or whatever in the absence of Harley but then that is something which has happened. If Harley would have present then that is speculation as following the same, we could also speculate, RE might have come big with V-twin or Parallel twins or even Bigger cc than Harley, have been Harley present here, you never know. No company is here to wait and watch. RE was on the brink of dying didn't then they had to pull their socks up and have to come with UCE. RE was enjoying it's fixed user base so was not bothered but time is the biggest preacher and teacher and they got a hard slap of it and they had to wake up from the sleep. So we never know if something would have been present, something else would have happened or not.

What you are saying can hold true and might or might not pass the test of time when Harley indeed would come up with 500cc. That is when you can say, presence of Harley is overshadowing the RE. But to be seen.....

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

Good read.

If RE develops a new 500 engine with help of Polaris they need not to worry.

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

Well if RE comes out with a new 500cc engine...even if its a V-Twin or Parallel twin I agree with what DukeDey has said...it wont stand a chance against harley if it's priced at 2 lakh since most of the owners consider the price as an important factor

i have already seen many of my friends who heard this news going gaga over harley over RE and believe me for some of them brand name also holds the most important factor...its like Harley is like Tag Heuer and RE is like HMT

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

I have been following this thread. I have never been a fan of RE or HD. However, if HD manages to launch a 500 cc mini cruiser priced at around 2.5 lacs, I am game for it. I have always shied away from RE bikes due to perception that they are not so great bikes at staggering price.

If HD manages to price it right I may take the jump.

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

I think we are downplaying RE's status among its enthusiasts in the wake of HD, in India. Without an iota of doubt, HD 500cc would garner great attention throughout the country from motorcycle enthusiasts in general. Whether the reaction is going to be positive or not is a different matter and is best left to discuss when the motorcycle is out. And in all honesty, I believe that HD will benefit *greatly* from their 500cc as long as RE continues to sit on its arse with their current motorcycle lineup. HD don't have to create an RE and neither RE has to create an HD, for them to challenge each other. Just being in a similar cubic capacity or the price range will be enough for HD and RE to slug it out (example, Duke 390 vs CBR250). Unless Triumph Bonneville is here, RE and HD are going to be the closest rivals in our country to an extent in terms of how they represent a motorcycle lifestyle.

As I said before, this budget HD could be a much needed push for RE to attempt what they haven't done before. RE could produce a parallel twin, continue to keep itself unique while offering a performance that they can only dream of with their singles. If RE does something like this, they will surely create a massive new fan following, including out of current non believers, while strengthening their already strong legacy in India. The encouraging factor and the motivation will be more in RE's favor for creating a much better and powerful flagship motorcycle rather than in HD's who would be creating their cheapest and smallest v-twin!

There's a certain section of bikers who would prefer to own the RE's flagship rather than HD's cheapest. I for one, would prefer that to be a parallel twin from RE to do that job.

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

What RE really needs to do is get way more stringent with its quality checks and also improve the pathetic quality of some parts on offer.

I have seen tbts 500 leaking oil from their crankcase, head etc, faulty oil seals, bad fork seal, the matt engine paint coming off, rusting exhaust and other nuts and bolts...all this in a 2 month old bike and I would never buy an RE till they fix all this.
A friend's classic 350 bought 6 months ago had a cracked crackcase which was replaced under warranty after visiting the svc endless times.
For gods sake these bikes cost a bomb, are no where even close to vfm, forget vfm they are way overpriced for whats on offer and on top of all they manage to offer such pathetic quality. I am staying away from them even if they launch a flagship twin. A new twin developed by them? god help them. When they have been unable to iron out all the issues from the engine which is from granddad's, no one should trust them with the new engine is what I would say.
I love the desert storm and would love to own one but I might never buy one. Bad quality and overpriced.


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re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

@DukeDey:
I absolutely understand your frustration with RE. Though I do not own any of the newer REs, but I own an Electra 2006 model, CI engine and I understand with what you mean by quality of parts. They are far from competent while demanding much more than usual attention and care.

My post was in a more general sense as to what RE needs to do to if they want to be taken more seriously among bikers. Obviously, quality control is the most important thing for them to do right now as you say. However, let's understand that even if they improve quality, it's going to take lot of time to get noticed and eventually change perception of RE quality among bikers like us. Other than the Thunderbirds, RE still has the same old cycle parts in all models continuing from decades which is sad to see. NVH levels are always high.

Somehow, to my sadness, I believe that RE cannot manage to improve their quality or create a truly competent world class retro product on their own. They desperately need someone help. I am not sure what is going on between Polaris and RE if there's anything at all, but I do hope that Polaris buys RE and work their engineering magic to create a brand new species of RE motorcycles from ground up that I can really love. See what Polaris has achieved with Indian Motorcycles, their new Thunder Stroke 111 engine is a gem and garnering great praise in press while Victory is also offering good variety with Polaris at helm.

Otherwise, if HD can price their 500cc right, I will not be surprised if they take the game away from RE in 500cc category irrespective of how different the two companies are.

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

HD 500 @ 2 lakhs, wgat are people smoking ? I would be surprised if its below 4 lakhs.

re: Harley Davidson 500cc in final stages: xBhp News

Exactly my point, they have really good looking products but apart from that they have just stopped caring about what customers want. Their engines need to be upgraded in terms of power. Their quality needs to be improved but just because they are able to sell their bikes with an increase in demand year on year they have stopped bothering.
It would be good for biking fraternity if HD is able to make the management at RE take note and in turn they would ask their designers and quality guys to tighten their strings.

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