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Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

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  • [Photo Feature]: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

    This is my second engine Build , first one was done on own bike. More details on first one can be found on my Ownership thread.

    This thread is about General conversion from 883 to 1250cc , without any Head work or cam replacement.

    My second engine build was performed on my friend's bike , who dropped it with me for as long as I would want to have it.

    The bike is a 2013 superlow, and has just completed 5000km, fairly new Bike I would say. It already sports a Stage one air cleaner and SE slip ons ever since it left showroom floor.

    It generally would take about 10-15 man-hours of work for general conversion without all the speciality tools. With all the tools available and in experienced hands this project will take about 6-8 man-hours.
    My own project took me about 10hrs , since it was my First time . Had to go through service manual several times for correct sequence of events on various assemblies , Torquing sequence etc , Torque values etc.

    For this project there is also some additional work,
    1. GC riser kit . ( Friend came to drop his bike, test rode mine and immideately dug the benifits of Higher GC)
    2. SE exhaust Baffle removal / Modification - as the case may be while Tuning.
    3. Engine tune development , since his bike has different exhaust & intake .

    Do excuse the Pic quality since I am not much into photography and does not have an assistant to keep clicking every now and then.

    First Pic , GC riser kit Installed. (More on that procedure some other time)
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    Fairly simple job to remove Exhaust & Intake manifold. Exhaust headers need to be snug fit into seal to prevent leaks on re asssembly. Header bolts are very easy to gets their threads washed or break off on slightest hint of over torque. So if you have Exhaust leak from joint on cylinder head to exhaust header avoid trying to fix the leak by tightening the bolts. Instead try to loosen the bolts and fit the flange properly into packing and retighten.
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    Rocker covers removed , Simple job , just remove 4 holding bolts per rocker cover and use a sharp screw driver to push into heads / rocker cover parting line. This will pop the cover open.
    After rocker cover , remove the rocker assembly itself. Complex sequence of events to release the pressure of both rockers before you can loosen any bolts. trying to find TDC by rotating rear wheel so that Valves reach a place where both intak and exhaust are closed and no pressure on them from rocker side.

    Also bolt removal sequence is crittical , it has 9 bolts per cylinder ( 4 Head holding bolts, 3 rocker cover to head bolts , 2 packing pressure bolts) , opening the worng set bolts first will strip off threads from others.
    After rocker cover is removed , 4 more 13mm castle nuts need to be removed to detach Head from cylinders. These are most critical , and they keep head + cylinders glued to crank case. Under torque these on re assembly and soon the engine will come apart in Hollywood action movie fashion. Over torque these and on one hot day with a Hot engine you will strip the threads clean off these bolts due to thermal expansion of cylinders , and again a Hollywood action movie while you are doing 90 on Highway.
    Click image for larger version

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    State of Piston in just 5000km. look at the fine dust deposited on piston top. In time to come this would keep ruining the rings and engine oil and at a point it would have increase compression ratio enough to have a detonating/ knocking engine.

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    This(below) is the Pic from my conversion which had 20418km on engine when I converted. Look at how clean the Piston is. Physically I could even read very fine small engravings (HD part number) on piston top
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    Ok back to conversion!
    Last shot of Stock cylinders
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    Unboxing new Hammers!
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    Putting them on future duty. Forged racing Pistons are preinstalled in the clynders to make the whole assembly easier.
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    New pin goes in.
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    Circlip to be installed in piston grove. Needs patience of a monk as it keeps coming out and flying across great distances due to tention while installation.
    I actually dropped one circlip inside crank case , I tied a magnet on a wooden stick , lowered it into crank case , spent some time wandering inside and luck favoured. Magnet came out with circlip drenched in engine oil.
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    Comparision of Head condition His VS Mine.

    First two pics showing state of valves on his head. Clearly Exhaust valve has been running at very high temp and shows sign of WHite flakes and distortion. I tell every one - Do not run free flowing exhaust & filter without retuning.
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    Click image for larger version

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    Here is a shot of Heads from my conversion-
    Dig the difference in colour?
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    Work is still in progress and further updates will be given on coming week end!
    Enjoy the engine porn!
    Last edited by dustom_99; 11-05-2014, 04:05 PM.
    You're never lost if ya don't care where the road is headed

  • #2
    Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

    Upgrade/conversion approved!

    That's a big lot of dough which crossed over my head!
    Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
    Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

    Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
    Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
    ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
    P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

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    • #3
      Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

      i knew this thread was bout to come... great going sir... awesome stuff again.. am sure that guy must be just waiting to sit on his bike with an alien engine now....
      "A good long ride can clear your mind, restore your faith, and use up a lot of fuel."

      RE Bullet 1977 - Current
      RX-100 1995 - Current
      CBZ Classic 2003 - Current
      Activa 2004 - Current
      CBR 250R 2012 - Current
      Ninja 650 2013 - Current.

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      • #4
        Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

        Few more pics of the conversion.
        New cylinder with Forged piston!

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        As customary , always a drop of blood on new build.

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        Dropped a wrist pin ring into the Crank abyss. spend good 2 hours trying to find it with a flash light and magnet. Damn the magnet bit was tough as it keeps on sticking to crank underside instead of going down further into oil pan.

        Click image for larger version

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ID:	1895253Finally found the sucker! couldnt have left it there .

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        Strangly Head packing says Front heads and rear heads on the same packing!

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        You're never lost if ya don't care where the road is headed

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        • #5
          Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

          Ah!There you are.
          I was waiting for this in the older thread of yours dustom.
          Though the level is over my head, makes a good information.
          If you can label the parts with an arrow, "illiterates" like me can understand better and might be able to try this one fine day

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          • #6
            Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

            News update!
            This , the second bike i converted to 1250cc is up and running with all systems GO! I rode it with over rich tune for About 200km just to keep engine temps down.
            New engine is very susceptible to failure due to ring Microwelding. This was adviced by Kit supplier.
            As the bike has different exhaust ( screaming eagle) and stage 1 aircleaner , I could not simply load my tune into this bike.
            Although it would run even on that but it would not be optimum tune.
            So after 200km of initial running in , I set about correcting the tune .
            By and large corrections were made on VE but at some places even the timing has been corrected .
            Timing correction is a manual process with lot of trial and error. But at the same time its a known fact that HD runs very conservative timing in light of various norms aswell as warranty cost.
            I generally set about advancing 2 deg at a time at places of high throttle openings. whenever a knock even is detected , i back of about 2 deg and leave it alone.

            One major deference i felt in my set up ( with almost straight through mufflers and big round custom air cleaner) and his ( SE pipes and SE filter) is that he seems to have much better torque in lower rpm range.
            Almost 10% more than mine, all the way to 3000rpm. At around 4500rpm we both have very similar VE and timing , after which his bike seems to fade and mine comes alive.
            I think almost negligible back pressure is robbing me of low end but at the same time rewarding me with nearly extra 5bhp at the top. ( 5000-6000rpm)
            His bike does not love anything above 6000rpm , where as mine does 7200rpm quite nicely.
            So its a trade off i guess i will have to bear with.
            Both bikes returning very similar kmpl in normal running around town.

            So in under 6lc bucks he has a 80+ bhp sportster that would spank big twins and triumph bonnies at will. he bought it second hand for 5 with just 3.5k on the odo.
            1200 kit is available from HD aswell but it turnsout to be quite expensive as parts cost about 1.1lc alone and then you have to buy a tuner costing atleast 33k plus labour of installation. Also it only brings the bike to factory spec 1200.
            Last edited by dustom_99; 11-16-2014, 05:53 PM.
            You're never lost if ya don't care where the road is headed

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            • #7
              Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

              Geez! You make it look all so easy.
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              • #8
                Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

                Originally posted by ABikerAtHeart View Post
                Geez! You make it look all so easy.
                It feels easy after years of experience and knowing what are you doing!
                Even after that i do fkup at times and drop tiny little circlips inside crankcase. Its very embarrassing!
                Last edited by dustom_99; 11-16-2014, 11:25 PM.
                You're never lost if ya don't care where the road is headed

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

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                  Since Dyno charts are hot topic on online forums these days , in light of what stock high perfoirmance bikes are doing.
                  I thought I should bring forth what sort of power Harleys can reliably make.
                  This Dyno result shows a 2010 883 sportster converted to 1250 with a Hammer kit , it has a SE exhaust and SE Stage1 aircleaner and is tuned with a Power vision.


                  With 85nm torque available as low as 2.5k rpm you would be well into rolling burnouts everytime you got on gas hard.
                  While torque peak of 115nm will make short work of any overtake you could imagine.
                  Making nearly 80bhp ( Stock hp on wheel is less than 50) on wheel for a miserly investment of less than a Lc. This I believe is best bang for buck in auto industry.

                  Later in life swaping heads to late model 1200 or Buell thunderstrom (Which I plan to do as and when I find a good example going cheap on Ebay) , which will send rear wheel HP into 100+. Examples are available which are producing 115+ bhp with 1250kit and 1200stock heads.
                  Coupled with Short gearing of 883 , this 130+ crank power could actaully eat almost anything in a Drag, doing so on a Harley is fun since no one expects Harleys to go fast! and then they sound pure bad ass.

                  Although there are a lot of bikes which produce much more than 130 at crank , but most of them are so light in weight that putting all that power to road is a tough ask. Specially in low gears where the lighter bike will raise its ugly front every time all that power meets the road. It requires really a honed in rider to use that power on a light bike.
                  Also these sports bike produce all that power much much higher in RPM band , They eat their clutch a lot if you try to keep engine at max power and try to send it to wheel.

                  Sportsters Rock! lol
                  Attached Files
                  You're never lost if ya don't care where the road is headed

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                  • #10
                    Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

                    I never liked cruisers and never will ,only because they run like a fat lady ,but yours sir ,I would like to steal and run away till leh.
                    Thats one hellofa job you did there .
                    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

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                    • #11
                      Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

                      Originally posted by Anuj_Gupta View Post
                      I never liked cruisers and never will ,only because they run like a fat lady ,but yours sir ,I would like to steal and run away till leh.
                      Thats one hellofa job you did there .
                      :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
                      Hehe! Thanks.
                      Sportsters are not out & out cruisers.
                      Infact they were the original sportsbikes . Their 270kg weight do help in cruise aswell but they are more of a multipurpose thing.

                      And further more , please dont steal mine..please please please. I dont want to go to jail.lol
                      You're never lost if ya don't care where the road is headed

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                      • #12
                        Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

                        Very informative thread for a noob like me.
                        A bike on the road is worth two in the shed.

                        Weekend Rides Around Kolkata
                        My Ride To Sunderbans -
                        Hemnagar & Samsernagar
                        Saagar Kinare - Bakkhali Calling

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                        • #13
                          Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

                          Originally posted by krishna77 View Post
                          Very informative thread for a noob like me.
                          Not much informative actually. I tried to keep it like a mini skirt, reveals enough to keep people interested but hides enough to keep them away from feeling that they became experts and try a diy!
                          Because if their projects fails , they are going to put it down to this thread.
                          You're never lost if ya don't care where the road is headed

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                          • #14
                            Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

                            great going dustom, great start up for your own custom shop one day, i hope

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                            • #15
                              Re: Harley davidson 883 to 1250 conversion!

                              Originally posted by dustom_99 View Post
                              Not much informative actually. I tried to keep it like a mini skirt, reveals enough to keep people interested but hides enough to keep them away from feeling that they became experts and try a diy!
                              Because if their projects fails , they are going to put it down to this thread.
                              Ha Ha.
                              No, but seriously I got to know a thing or two from here.
                              And as [MENTION=7546]mehuel[/MENTION] has suggested, I too hope to see your customizations reach a height.
                              A bike on the road is worth two in the shed.

                              Weekend Rides Around Kolkata
                              My Ride To Sunderbans -
                              Hemnagar & Samsernagar
                              Saagar Kinare - Bakkhali Calling

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