Universal Thread - Braking

[Sarvajit]

^^ Why? What's wrong there?

+1. I think its a good article, that explains how to brake in various situations! But we should always remember that all of it may not hold good for our Indian bikes.
There was once an article about Moto-Man run-in&many people have followed it to the T on their Indian bikes&you know the hazardous results very well.
Idea is to take something out of it&apply wherever applicable to our own motorcycles&motorcycling!

[Sava]

To be honest I strongly dissagree with the article and strictly suggest everyone not to follow the method mentioned!!

This is not the right way to break..


Shanz

<Posted via Mobile>

Why don't you mention the reason for disagreeing with the article and tell us the right way to brake instead of simply stating that you disagree?

[Shanz]

^^ Why? What's wrong there?

Honestly I never had any chance to ride the BMW bikes with so called ABS, EBD and antidip tech.

And more honestly coming back to the ground, we're not going to have these braking systems in near or far future on our premium bike segment, specially the 250 and lesser depot, which nearly 90% of our biking religion rides.

So obviously we're left with conventional braking system and its optimum applications!

In the article Everything mentioned about grip, antidip, weight distribution is rightly mentioned there, but when it comes to optimal and emergency braking conditions, the two most important situation, here, article misleads to a great extent!!

Lets have examples (according to the braking way mentioned in article) their results, resons and the right way to break in both the optimum and emergency braking situation-

Situation No.1- EMERGENCY BRAKING CONDITION
*On a 'X' bike loaded with front and rear discs brake's running on 120kmph, in a sudden panic situation, 'ONLY' the front brakes are slammed with pulled clutching then what happens?

Result -
*The moment you pull the clutch on 120kmph, you take the first wrong step,

*Then not touching the rear brakes is the second wrong step,

*Lastly squeezing the front brakes is the final nail in the coffin, resulting in sudden wheel lock!

Reason-
*The moment you Clutch, then literally ur letting your wheel's go free without any control on them, which results in diffrent and independent wheel behaviour from both the ends,

*Now, when you wont touch your rear brake means your rear wheel will still be independently rotating and trying its best to push your bike when you're trying your best to stop the bike.

*finally, due to high speed your forks are totally relaxed and your tyre's are in not-so-grippy condition, along with the weight distributed on both the wheels, and the rear wheel pushing you forward with all its might, suddenly, when you brake, your forks try to take 'All' the braking pressure thus trying to 'dip', whereas your front tyre on which brakes are being applied which desperetly needs more weight to glue itself to the ground when finds itself trying to stop but have literally no weight on it, starts a bit locking,
Here, the rear wheel acts as villain of story, it try's to push and push the bike further and when it finds resistence in pushing the bike linearly, independently change the direction slightly while still trying to push,
thus the front brakes which are already paniking under sudden intrusion and constantly uner push due to rear wheel, when find even and inch of diversion from rear and cannot hold any more front force, loses its grip and locks due to the uneaven weightage, no pressure from forks and the force from rear.

How To Brake under emergency-
*Now, the question arises, how to brake under emergency if this is not the right way..

*except the first and last, rest all the gear's have an upper and lower rev limit, when the gear on its lower rev limit, it just turns the wheel so that bike could ideally run without putting much pressure on engine, as you open up the throttle more the engine works hence making the tyre run.

Suppose you're cruising on 120kmph on 5th gear, and you have suddenly faced the emergency braking situation.
Assuming that the lower rev range of 5th gear is 60kmph.

*Do not clutch, insted keep the clutch disengaged, and leave the throttle.

*Press the rear brakes to a extent of 80% and front brakes to a extent of 20% and sharply increase the front braking % and decreasing the rear braking %..
When you press the rear brakes so hard still the rear does not skids because the engaged gear and engine is trying to make the wheel turn whereas the brake is trying to lock the wheel simultaneously,
Here, a beauiful balance sets up between the engine and brakes hence stopping the tyres as well as keeping it unlocked on the other hand the front forks 'Distribute' all the brakeforce in between them and front tyre, thus optimally dipping but on the contrary pressuring the tyre which is very much required.

*the moment you come down to 60kmph, pull the clutch and start braking harder on the front and lesser on the rear.
Because When you reach the 60kmph mark that means you're on the lower limit of rev range of the particular gear, which simply indicates that now, below that speed if u still stay engaged in gear means your engine will still try to maintain your speed above its lower rev limit i.e. 60kmph, whereas you are desperetly trying to go below the 60kmph mark.

* After this speed keep the rear brakes intact but reducing the force as you go down the lesser speed so that it gives you the required grip and assistence from the rear as well as start squeezing front brakes more and more with incrementing the force step by step thus the shockers and the front tyre will be under total control and will co-ordinate in the best way, making you stop at its quickest!!!

Rest example's (OPTIMUM BRAKING, BRAKING WHILE CORNERING and SOME VERY IMPORTANT BRAKING FACTS) to be continued as I have to do some important work...


Shanz

[Sava]

^^^
I suggest you read the article again. It already addresses almost all points you mentioned here.

[abhijeet080808]

^^^
I suggest you read the article again. It already addresses almost all points you mentioned here.

+1. And they asked us to leave out engine braking in real emergency as we can not manage downshifting and modulating front+rear braking at the same time. It is just not possible. So, the best is to touch the rear brake and then start braking mostly using the front brake.

If you know what the front brake can do under proper use, you will know that rear brake or engine brake is nothing compared to it. I have immense respect for the front disc brake of any modern Indian motorcycle.

Slam it carelessly or use brake pumping or such idiotic techniques, it will bite you back very hard. For these type of people, rear brake + engine brake is the best.

[Shanz]

+1. And they asked us to leave out engine braking in real emergency as we can not manage downshifting and modulating front+rear braking at the same time. It is just not possible. So, the best is to touch the rear brake and then start braking mostly using the front brake.

If you know what the front brake can do under proper use, you will know that rear brake or engine brake is nothing compared to it. I have immense respect for the front disc brake of any modern Indian motorcycle.

Slam it carelessly or use brake pumping or such idiotic techniques, it will bite you back very hard. For these type of people, rear brake + engine brake is the best.

My bad, Somehow I am a defective piece, coz I have superb command over the not possible thing you have mentioned!!!
I can and I do break better than many, many other's here even under Real emergency
Alas! it is a good time wastage to pen down all that and then come to know that all was a waste according to people!!
Though what I wrote was only about emergency braking so please re-tally the EMERGENCY BRAKING technique of the article then carefully re-read all my points merging all of them, making it sound like a technique and then comment.

Thankyou,
Shanz

[abhijeet080808]

My bad, Somehow I am a defective piece, coz I have superb command over the not possible thing you have mentioned!!!
I can and I do break better than many, many other's here even under Real emergency
Alas! it is a good time wastage to pen down all that and then come to know that all was a waste according to people!!
Though what I wrote was only about emergency braking so please re-tally the EMERGENCY BRAKING technique of the article then carefully re-read all my points merging all of them, making it sound like a technique and then comment.

Thankyou,
Shanz

Chill dude. My comment was not directed at you personally. I wrote what I feel is correct. In a real emergency, what you have said is not possible to follow. If it is followed, it will take some time to implement and your braking distance will increase not decrease.

[Shanz]

Chill dude. My comment was not directed at you personally. I wrote what I feel is correct. In a real emergency, what you have said is not possible to follow. If it is followed, it will take some time to implement and your braking distance will increase not decrease.

"Practice makes the man perfect"
And my braking distence decreased alot, coz thats not a step by step method, its a series of things to be done at same time!!!
<Posted via Mobile>

[abhijeet080808]

"Practice makes the man perfect"
And my braking distence decreased alot, coz thats not a step by step method, its a series of things to be done at same time!!!
<Posted via Mobile>

Exactly! And in an emergency, firstly there is a shock of seeing something unexpected on your patch. Then is the pressure of saving yourself. Hence, more simple the steps, more is the chance of saving yourself. Trust me! I have seen a lot!

[kaynmantis]

I don't have any technical expertise, but I would like to comment what "Emergency" means.

There are emergency conditions where the ONLY option is to slam the brakes and pray (Ok, there's no time to pray either) as the time to react may be just a couple of seconds. Anywhere between 1 to 5 seconds.
There are also emergency conditions where you have to brake rapidly, though the time to react will be sufficient to apply proper braking technique.

Just saying as I had both kind of elergencies and fortunately came out without incidents. In higher speed I used both front/rear brakes as there was sufficient time to react properly. At lower speed I used only front brakes as there was no time to think as the object in front of me was merely 3-4 feet or someone just cut across. Very rarely I used both as it was so sudden that I'm not even aware that my hands have already applied the brakes and I've come to a complete halt with big jerk and engine is still running, meaning...hello..the clutch is already depressed too, I never intended to do that, it just happened by itself (instinct). I need to work on my feet to work with equal instinct effeciency.

The moral of my story is, at higher speed, I make it a habit to keep safe distance and be extra vigilant. Al lower speed, the typical city bumper-to-bumper traffic, its very hard to maintain safe distance as some one will squeeze in if you do that .

[ashu_nik]

UP hill - Down hill braking : In addition to braking , I think the most important thing is how u enter a curve ... the most effective (and safe)line while entering a curve is enter in the curve from outside circle and gradually coming inside of the curve and then accelerate ...
This technique is very basic but most of us enter the curve from the in circle and exit in the outer circle ... yeh road mere baap ki hai ... but think of the already two nuts behind the wheel of cars overtaking each other , coming from the opposite direction, fighting to get into the curve first ... entering from outer circle and exiting incircle gives enough time n space for the vehicles coming in from front as well as secures ur exit route ...
As far as breaking goes .. i believe its better to follow ur experience and mistakes... bottom line is keep the bike in control always ...

[shamanthnv]

Any idea to get rear disc brake?

Hi guys, Any idea if i can get rear disc brake on my FZ ? I have seen photos in net of FZ with rear disc but want to know where it can be installed in bangalore.

[kaynmantis]

.... , I think the most important thing is how u enter a curve ... the most effective (and safe)line while entering a curve is enter in the curve from outside circle and gradually coming inside of the curve and then accelerate ...
This technique is very basic but most of us enter the curve from the in circle and exit in the outer circle ...

Good for race track. Not so good for 2 way road with traffic. In such case, sticking to you side(left) is safest than taking the best line. Even in one way traffic road, maintaining your lane is safer than taking the best line. Normal driving/riding is about safety. On track, the rule changes where late braking, racing lines, entering/exiting curves etc. are most important.

[HydBiker]

Good for race track. Not so good for 2 way road with traffic. In such case, sticking to you side(left) is safest than taking the best line. Even in one way traffic road, maintaining your lane is safer than taking the best line. Normal driving/riding is about safety. On track, the rule changes where late braking, racing lines, entering/exiting curves etc. are most important.

I'm with you there. For road purpose stick to your lane very strictly. Also, when you cannot see what's after the turn, reduce the speed greatly.

[viv.nomad]

ok! question is ;

what is better

1] single larger disk [276mm of ZMA]

or

2] 2 [double] disk brake and calipers with 240mm

for unicorn.