Engine Oils

[muztariq]

@ Frankly speaking & muztariq,
motul says its ok to mix (any) oils with theirs. 'No harm' but definitely 'performance' will change but difference is hardly noticeable.

we have had a lot of discussions on oil mixing. The emphasis here is the use of the word 'better'.
Its always better not to mix different grades/makes of oils together.

[Honda_CBF]

we have had a lot of discussions on oil mixing. The emphasis here is the use of the word 'better'.
Its always better not to mix different grades/makes of oils together.

very true. And i agree to it. But motul states that mixing is 'suitable' with their oils & my post was only to imphasis that fact only nothing else, and i have also stated mixing will affect oils 'performance'

[FranklySpeaking]

not necessarily.. At RT a w50 will be more viscous than a w40. But as Motul 300v 15w50 is a synthetic, it should flow faster.

How was what I was saying wrong and what are you trying to prove here? And, I would appreciate if you use a few more keystrokes on your keyboard so that poor souls like me understand what you mean to say by 'RT'.

In any case, change from 20W40 to 15W50 cannot cause a starting issue the way the fellow was saying, as long as that 15W50 is not a gelled up sugarcane juice.

All you Pulsar kids, more so if it is red or blue, should stop splitting hair on non-issues.

Argument favoring 20w50 in place of 15w50 is true but outdated. Previously 15w50 were made with more VIIs than 20w50. But nowadays 15w50 SS have equivalent VIIs to 20w50 mineral.. You wont find 15w50 pure minerals in the market. API SN 15w50 will be pure fs oils.. Thats why its always better to use higher API rated oils. The higher the rating the better the quality of oil.(except the zinc and phosphorus content which is being reduced, it woukd be better to use these high quality oils + zinc and phosphorus additives separately)

Dude, listen up. I am fed up reading your half baked gyan on this thread. I read stuff here and do not post because I do not want to keep correcting you guys all the time, even though all the information is already available on the thread. Some of you guys posting here need to read quite a bit before you post here. Keep your global gyan with yourself and have some mercy on poor blokes reading here by not posting wrong information.

Motul 3000 4T is MINERAL OIL (read up the website of Motul) and it is available in 15W50 also.

Welcome to Motul

I had mentioned it explicitly in my post that I am posting for mineral oils and not synthetic oils.

By the way, do not want to break hearts of many of those using the overly priced semi-synthetic junk. These marketing companies are fooling you. There is no criteria for calling an oil a semi synthetic one. Even if they add a miniscule percentage, like 5% of synthetic to the mineral oil, they call it semi-synthetic. Some do not even do it and still use words like those. So, use your brain and do not go by what you see on TV or on forums.

[muztariq]

How was what I was saying wrong and what are you trying to prove here? And, I would appreciate if you use a few more keystrokes on your keyboard so that poor souls like me understand what you mean to say by 'RT'.

In any case, change from 20W40 to 15W50 cannot cause a starting issue the way the fellow was saying, as long as that 15W50 is not a gelled up sugarcane juice.

All you Pulsar kids, more so if it is red or blue, should stop splitting hair on non-issues.



Dude, listen up. I am fed up reading your half baked gyan on this thread. I read stuff here and do not post because I do not want to keep correcting you guys all the time, even though all the information is already available on the thread. Some of you guys posting here need to read quite a bit before you post here. Keep your global gyan with yourself and have some mercy on poor blokes reading here by not posting wrong information.

Motul 3000 4T is MINERAL OIL (read up the website of Motul) and it is available in 15W50 also.

Welcome to Motul

I had mentioned it explicitly in my post that I am posting for mineral oils and not synthetic oils.

By the way, do not want to break hearts of many of those using the overly priced semi-synthetic junk. These marketing companies are fooling you. There is no criteria for calling an oil a semi synthetic one. Even if they add a miniscule percentage, like 5% of synthetic to the mineral oil, they call it semi-synthetic. Some do not even do it and still use words like those. So, use your brain and do not go by what you see on TV or on forums.

I thought you read NTR correctly in Abhijeet's post. Then whats the problem in you reading RT. NTR is normal temperature and RT is room temperature.

Though i was taking your posts quite heartily.. but this post from you is 'threatening'.
It seems you consider yourself some "gyan devta"(Knowledge God) and others as fools.. Reading some posts and threads on Engine oils does not make you an expert. We all are learning here.. Dont act like a college professor!

By the way.. I am fed up of your posts and wrong information you keep posting on oils.. Consider these cut copy pasted posts of yours:
1)At cold, 15W50 is LESS VISCOUS (flows better) than 20W40 - WRONG
2)And, which company have you seen selling 10W50 in India? - Honda_CBF replied to this. Its Castrol 10w50.
Hope this link is not as fake as your motul 3000 15w50 link. http://www.castrol.com/castrol/produ...tentId=7051267
3)Thin oils are also available from Elf, like Total Quartz 0W30 and 5W30. - You are asking us to use total quartz on bikes?? these are car grade oils.
4)do not want to break hearts of many of those using the overly priced semi-synthetic junk - WRONG, Semi synthetics are better oil in performance and protection. Many companies ask you to put Semi-synthetic oil rather than synthetics or mineral - KTM 200, R15 are some of the bikes which come with this recommendation.

Also see the link that you have posted, it goes to Motul 20W40 3000 4T and not to 15w50 as you have stated. That mineral grade is not showing on the website. We have discussed 15w50 mineral from motul earlier.. will not talk about it again.

[muztariq]

Quote: Cold start issue for using 15W50 instead of 20W40? At cold, 15W50 is LESS VISCOUS (flows better) than 20W40. - WRONG

may or may not have a better flow than a mineral 10W30! It all depends on the composition of the synthetic..

[FranklySpeaking]

antz.bin has deleted my last post citing the use of inappropriate words. May be he also owns a Red or blue motorcycle? I do not see any issue in what I said in the post that has been deleted by the moderator. anyway, moderators here seem to have all the rights to delete any post.

@muztariq,

1. Fake link? I had put up link of Motul website to show you that Motul 3000 4T is a mineral oil. I do not know what you are talking about when you say you've discussed Motul 3000 4T earlier. All I know is that my motorcycle is using it and the drum of 15W50 Motul 3000 4T clearly mentions mineral oil on it, just like the package of 20W40 says it's mineral.


2. Tell me why 15W50 will not flow better than 20W40 at cold?

3. How can moving from 20W50 to 15W50 result in cold start problems?

4. When did I talk about 'thin' oils that you seem to be cribbing about. Use the grade that you want. Total also has Quartz 3000 available in 20W50. So, it is not about company A selling thick oils, company B selling thin oils. That is absolutely ridiculous. Just check if the grade you need is available and buy if you like.


Yea, I do not care about your car/motorcycle oils. I own a Bullet and it has a different sump for engine oil.

5. What is the criteria for an oil to be called a semi-synthetic oil?

[muztariq]

@muztariq,

1. Fake link? I had put up link of Motul website to show you that Motul 3000 4T is a mineral oil. I do not know what you are talking about when you say you've discussed Motul 3000 4T earlier. All I know is that my motorcycle is using it and the drum of 15W50 Motul 3000 4T clearly mentions mineral oil on it, just like the package of 20W40 says it's mineral.
-We(you and me) have discussed it before.. you dont remember. Walk back in time. Motul 15W50 may have hydrocracked oils which are present in Shell Ultra FS oils, Castrol Racing FS oils. Motul as a company do not sell hydrocracked mineral oils as FS oils. I reiterate 15W50 is not possible unless you mix some synthetics to 20W50 grade.. If that was possible.. all companies will do it and sell 15W50 and 10W40 grade mineral oils! Consider this Shell AX5 is 20w40 but AX7 is 10W40 and Ultra is 10W40. Why cant AX5 be 10W40 too?? it cant be made without addition of FS oils to mineral!


2. Tell me why 15W50 will not flow better than 20W40 at cold? - Answered in the above post

3. How can moving from 20W50 to 15W50 result in cold start problems? - 20W40 to 15W50 - Yes, cold start problem may arise.. explanation given above.

4. When did I talk about 'thin' oils that you seem to be cribbing about. Use the grade that you want. Total also has Quartz 3000 available in 20W50. So, it is not about company A selling thick oils, company B selling thin oils. That is absolutely ridiculous. Just check if the grade you need is available and buy if you like. - Total manufactures car oils their corresponding bike oils are ELF. when you say 20W50 from total, its a car oil not a bike oil. We know your bike can take car oils, but engine oil thread on xbhp talks about wet clutch bike oils. Though we give references to car oils too.. but just for knowledge.

Yea, I do not care about your car/motorcycle oils. I own a Bullet and it has a different sump for engine oil.

5. What is the criteria for an oil to be called a semi-synthetic oil? - There is no criteria! Use it, if you like it continue using it!! Reputed oils like 5100 from Motul and AX7 from Shell are popular ss oils in the market. Yamalube 15W50 too is polupar with R15. No company will give you SS oil with 5% FS + 95% Mineral. There is a noticable performance upgrade when we use quality SS oils. Its very well documented here.

Replies in BOLD.

[FranklySpeaking]

Why I say this statement is wrong..

Quote: Cold start issue for using 15W50 instead of 20W40? At cold, 15W50 is LESS VISCOUS (flows better) than 20W40. - WRONG

may or may not have a better flow than a mineral 10W30! It all depends on the composition of the synthetic..

I knew this is what you will post.

You are completely wrong when you say the line below

Then, by your logic, number before W has no significance unless we are talking about the temperatures of 0 degree celcius and below?!


Read up a bit here (on the last page)

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-articles/Multigrade-Oils.pdf

In fact, 15W50 will become thicker than a 20W40 at very high temperatures, something of the order of 60-80 degree celcius (just a guess) and that is the point where the two lines will cross each other.

Your idea of viscosity falling all of a sudden at temperature above 0 degree celcius is flawed.

[FranklySpeaking]

Just to help you out,

However, a 5w30 motor oil will be thinner than a 10w30 motor oil when subjected to the same low temperature conditions – because the “W” number is lower. This is an indication of better cold weather performance. In other words, a 5w30 flows better in cold weather than a 10w30 motor oil will. Think of the “W” as a “winter” classification instead of a “weight” classification.

Copied from

Understanding Multi-Viscosity Oils - The Motor Oil Evaluator

[catchdoon]

I knew this is what you will post.

You are completely wrong when you say the line below



Then, by your logic, number before W has no significance unless we are talking about the temperatures of 0 degree celcius and below?!


Read up a bit here (on the last page)

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-articles/Multigrade-Oils.pdf

In fact, 15W50 will become thicker than a 20W40 at very high temperatures, something of the order of 60-80 degree celcius (just a guess) and that is the point where the two lines will cross each other.

Your idea of viscosity falling all of a sudden at temperature above 0 degree celcius is flawed.

Yea bro, You are right! There is significance of the number before W and logically and technically, Lesser the number >> better the performance @ 0*C! Simple.


Just wanted to clarify that using a FF results in reduction in the oil level more frequently as a results of more esters present, so if I purchase a bottle of oil and use some of it, will the rest be OK and will get spoilt over a due time?


PS: Avoid Using BACK TO BACK Posts @FRANKLYSPEAKING!!!!

[muztariq]

Then, by your logic, number before W has no significance unless we are talking about the temperatures of 0 degree celcius and below?!


Read up a bit here (on the last page)

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-articles/Multigrade-Oils.pdf

In fact, 15W50 will become thicker than a 20W40 at very high temperatures, something of the order of 60-80 degree celcius (just a guess) and that is the point where the two lines will cross each other.

Your idea of viscosity falling all of a sudden at temperature above 0 degree celcius is flawed.

Again you are misquoting me.
1) Read your file again - It only compares XXw40 grade viscosities.. now read my line "Always remember, when at room temperature.. a 5W40 will have slightly better flow than 10W40 which will have a slightly better flow than 20W40 which will have a much better flow than 10W50 which will have a slightly better flow than 20W50 which will have a much better flow than 10W60 and like wise." arent they in sync?? There is a slight increase in viscosity when you go above 0W40 to 5W40 to 10W40.. that is what I said before you posted the link! 2) Now read your line - In fact, 15W50 will become thicker than a 20W40 at very high temperatures - W50 and 20W40W50 and 20W40!
Anyways, you can seal the remaining oil in the bottle. Nothing will happen. These oils vaporizer at repeated beating at high temperatures and not at RT!

[FranklySpeaking]

Again you are misquoting me.
1) Read your file again - It only compares XXw40 grade viscosities.. now read my line "Always remember, when at room temperature.. a 5W40 will have slightly better flow than 10W40 which will have a slightly better flow than 20W40 which will have a much better flow than 10W50 which will have a slightly better flow than 20W50 which will have a much better flow than 10W60 and like wise." arent they in sync?? There is a slight increase in viscosity when you go above 0W40 to 5W40 to 10W40.. that is what I said before you posted the link! 2) Now read your line - In fact, 15W50 will become thicker than a 20W40 at very high temperatures - W50 and 20W40.. I know 5W30 is less viscous than 10W30! What you want to prove here?? I am saying 15W50 is more viscous than 20W40!! Getting it or still confused?

Well, I was about to sleep, so I am not putting in a lot of efforts to understand what you're trying to say. I will read your post and reply to you tomorrow now.


By the way, you need to know that the pour point (temp at which oil becomes semi-solid and loses its flow properties) of 20W50 itself is -30 degree celcius, so I do not know what you are talking about when you say viscosity lines will cross at those temperatures.

http://www.gulfoilindia.com/images/pds/gulf_pride_4t.pdf

[FranklySpeaking]

Yea bro, You are right! There is significance of the number before W and logically and technically, Lesser the number >> better the performance @ 0*C! Simple.


Just wanted to clarify that using a FF results in reduction in the oil level more frequently as a results of more esters present, so if I purchase a bottle of oil and use some of it, will the rest be OK and will get spoilt over a due time?


PS: Avoid Using BACK TO BACK Posts @FRANKLYSPEAKING!!!!

Keep the bottle tightly closed so as to prevent oxidation. I normally avoid storing oils.

Oils do not have any shelf life and they can last the life of the earth (you have no idea since when the oil was lying below the earth before it was drilled out by these oil companies)! But, it is the additives in them that get 'expired', so it is advised not to keep unused oil for long.

[FranklySpeaking]

Again you are misquoting me.
1) Read your file again - It only compares XXw40 grade viscosities.. now read my line "Always remember, when at room temperature.. a 5W40 will have slightly better flow than 10W40 which will have a slightly better flow than 20W40 which will have a much better flow than 10W50 which will have a slightly better flow than 20W50 which will have a much better flow than 10W60 and like wise." arent they in sync?? There is a slight increase in viscosity when you go above 0W40 to 5W40 to 10W40.. that is what I said before you posted the link! 2) Now read your line - In fact, 15W50 will become thicker than a 20W40 at very high temperatures - W50 and 20W40W50 and 20W40!
Anyways, you can seal the remaining oil in the bottle. Nothing will happen. These oils vaporizer at repeated beating at high temperatures and not at RT!

I understand what you're trying to convey. What you're telling is that a 0W40 oil will be more viscous than a 10W30 at a temperature of 20-25 degree celcius, right? Then what is the significance of number before W, if all that matters according to you is the number after the W? (assume the temperature conditions to be at Delhi or most other places in India where the temperature NEVER goes less than 0 degree celcius).

[amardeep2006]

I have recently acquired Jawa 250 and manual says recommended engine grade is SAE50 . It seems SAE50 single grade is no more available here.
The mechanic here says to use mixture of SAE40 + Small amount of SAE90 which I am not sure.

Can I use 20W50 oil for the same or mechanic recommended mixture ?