Engine Oils

[B7ACKTHORN]

then I guess, detergents can have 'wash off' effect on cat cons.. What say guys?

I absolutely do no thing it's not an idea to reckon, but why did and how did you come to conclusion that detergents can have wash off effects? Considering ZDDP and MDSF, and their likeliness going below, as it has been, and god forbid, unless if some thing even radical pops up.

But it's not just just the add on ZDDP that makes the difference right. Clearly, the flash point and kinematics viscosity all needs to be taken into consideration for a given amount of base oil. Unlike 3M or Bajaj's bardhal, I don't think they can be, but just a thought.

Perhaps, if you've used a Bajaj bardahl is nothing but 3M engine additive.

Cheers!
VJ

[Honda_CBF]

^ some pages back muzz bhai explained how these additive work. Which was something like this.. Anti wear additives and detergent counter each other and fight for surface area.. So if zddp can kill then detergents should reclaim them back?! I know it sound lame, but thats why I'm posting it here first.. Before putting some liquid down into the silencer.. Edit: and no haven't used any kind of additive in any vehicles.

[psr]

Detergents DO wash away the beneficial effects of ZDDP...Over the years it had been found and understood,so that modern day diesel oils come with just adequate amount of detergents only ,to keep the Diesel engine internals clean......
In foreign countries ZDDP and other additives are available for the individuals to make their own cocktail of engine specific protection...


Here is a useful link on the subject...

ZDDPlus™ - ZDDP for Classic, Muscle Cars & More

[B7ACKTHORN]

Detergents DO wash away the beneficial effects of ZDDP...Over the years it had been found and understood,so that modern day diesel oils come with just adequate amount of detergents only ,to keep the Diesel engine internals clean......
In foreign countries ZDDP and other additives are available for the individuals to make their own cocktail of engine specific protection...


Here is a useful link on the subject...

ZDDPlus™ - ZDDP for Classic, Muscle Cars & More

Thanks for link psr ji. But one doubt, Honda CBF mentioned "wash off effects" on cat cons, this is what my question arise in the first place. It was obvious that detergents do have so called erosive properties on ZDDP.

But why I shot that question was the effects it has on cat con, can you help me understand why, please, that is, if it really affects the cat con.

Now I know cat con itself contains all these alumina, rare earth stuff, etc etc. But would really affect the cat con in anyway apart from the engine?

Cheers!
VJ

[B7ACKTHORN]

How to get the book..

http://kat.ph/bl-chemistry-and-technology-of-lubricants-3rd-ed-t3376870.html

Click download torrent shown in the pic.. not any other link or you will land up on some paid site.

Dont ask me how to download torrents please . Install bit torrent etc first if you dont know.

I tried various torrents, but none had any seeders left, it still sticks on to the same two seeders in every torrent I've download from different sources, I guess it was about time you downloaded. Why don't you upload the PDF in filesharing website and give us the link, so that we can download them hasslefree.

When you check, check for trackers too, so that helps, don't just go by seeds, some times they are bloody leechers.

Please upload them in a filesharing website.

Cheers!
VJ

[psr]

Thanks for link psr ji. But one doubt, Honda CBF mentioned "wash off effects" on cat cons, this is what my question arise in the first place. It was obvious that detergents do have so called erosive properties on ZDDP.

But why I shot that question was the effects it has on cat con, can you help me understand why, please, that is, if it really affects the cat con.

Now I know cat con itself contains all these alumina, rare earth stuff, etc etc. But would really affect the cat con in anyway apart from the engine?

Cheers!
VJ

The ZDDP in the oil also comes out in small quantity to the exhaust as the lube oil gets burnt...Over a period of time this becomes a coat over the Catcon, more like a shirt over our body, and hence prevents the noxious exhaust gases from interacting with the Catcon and getting neutralized....

There are two schools of thought in the use of Detergents in oil...while the excessive use will definitely wash off the beneficial effect of the additives, there is another school of thought that even on small quantities , the detergents also come out in the exhaust just like the ZDDP and helps in actually removing the ZDDP coating on the catcon...thus negating the ZDDP coating on the catcon...so ZDDP + detergent on catcon= ZDDP gets washed off catcon, and catcon can continue to work ......
These are theories and yet to be proven on REPEAT TESTING.

[Honda_CBF]

The ZDDP in the oil also comes out in small quantity to the exhaust as the lube oil gets burnt...Over a period of time this becomes a coat over the Catcon, more like a shirt over our body, and hence prevents the noxious exhaust gases from interacting with the Catcon and getting neutralized....There are two schools of thought in the use of Detergents in oil...while the excessive use will definitely wash off the beneficial effect of the additives, there is another school of thought that even on small quantities , the detergents also come out in the exhaust just like the ZDDP and helps in actually removing the ZDDP coating on the catcon...thus negating the ZDDP coating on the catcon...so ZDDP + detergent on catcon= ZDDP gets washed off catcon, and catcon can continue to work ......These are theories and yet to be proven on REPEAT TESTING.

So.. What if we pour some aftermarket additive which contains detergents into silencer?? ...Just my noob idea of reviving cat-cons.. Excuse me if I'm making anyone laugh

[B7ACKTHORN]

The ZDDP in the oil also comes out in small quantity to the exhaust as the lube oil gets burnt...Over a period of time this becomes a coat over the Catcon, more like a shirt over our body, and hence prevents the noxious exhaust gases from interacting with the Catcon and getting neutralized....

There are two schools of thought in the use of Detergents in oil...while the excessive use will definitely wash off the beneficial effect of the additives, there is another school of thought that even on small quantities , the detergents also come out in the exhaust just like the ZDDP and helps in actually removing the ZDDP coating on the catcon...thus negating the ZDDP coating on the catcon...so ZDDP + detergent on catcon= ZDDP gets washed off catcon, and catcon can continue to work ......
These are theories and yet to be proven on REPEAT TESTING.

But as you've mentioned, completely reckon it's for diesel engines, but what about petrol cat cons, MDDS ji? Does it play some kind of negating role as the det/add/dps? Or does it still need to be validated too.

Cheers!
VJ

[muztariq]

@ anil - Forget all and put whatever 20w40, 15w40, 10w40 oil you feel good about.. Motul, Shell are the leading brands. I mention 'leading brands' not 'leading oils'!!

@all, for the book, just PM me your mail ID. I am removing torrent links etc from earlier posts.. It seems they arent working.

[Honda_CBF]

[QUOTE=anilkumar9 i want suzuki genuine oil 20w40 1lire pack... How????[/QUOTE]get it from suzuki authorised service centers or from the dealers/retailers who sell it. Simple.

[psr]

So.. What if we pour some aftermarket additive which contains detergents into silencer?? ...Just my noob idea of reviving cat-cons.. Excuse me if I'm making anyone laugh

Generally in TWO stroke bikes they pour Kerosene or Diesel into the silencer and shake it for some time to clean the deposits in it... In four strokes with lean and clean burn you don't get any deposits in the silencer...so no need for any detergent....for cleaning the Catcon , heating and burning off the deposits is the right method....

But as you've mentioned, completely reckon it's for diesel engines, but what about petrol cat cons, MDDS ji? Does it play some kind of negating role as the det/add/dps? Or does it still need to be validated too.

Cheers!
VJ

The detergents are present in Petrol oils also...the level of detergent in petrol oil is less compared to diesel specific oils.....
In fact one of the common additive is the calcium sulfonates for prevention of oxidative breakdown, and prevent sludge and varnish formation..the other is Molybdenum disulfide used only in 4 wheeler oils.

[B7ACKTHORN]

The detergents are present in Petrol oils also...the level of detergent in petrol oil is less compared to diesel specific oils.....
In fact one of the common additive is the calcium sulfonates for prevention of oxidative breakdown, and prevent sludge and varnish formation..the other is Molybdenum disulfide used only in 4 wheeler oils.

Thank you ji

Cheer!
VJ

[Prith]

Generally in TWO stroke bikes they pour Kerosene or Diesel into the silencer and shake it for some time to clean the deposits in it... In four strokes with lean and clean burn you don't get any deposits in the silencer...so no need for any detergent....for cleaning the Catcon , heating and burning off the deposits is the right method....

Adding to this, you have one more method call chemical cleaning with Lye or degreaser cleaning. Lye is basically strong solution of Sodium hydroxide (strong alkali) which "eats" away surfaces. In this case when we need to "eat" away oily deposits, then this is also an option. Given India's great chemical market, I dont think this is possible for some of us. The other best option is to use detergent with strong degreasing properties. Degreasing soap solutions are available online and they do a decent job to clean oil marks on engine surfaces, but how good would they be inside a exhaust pipe is a matter of debate. But this too can be supported with the help of running a bottle cleaner with extra long handle or hard electrical wire. But in any case Catcon needs soaking for atleast an hour before the degreaser can reach to its surface if its covered heavily by soot and burnt oil cakes.

[dhawalnashar]

Can i use motual 5100 15w50 on my discover 100
recommended is w40
stay in bangalore which is not that hot

[B7ACKTHORN]

Can i use motual 5100 15w50 on my discover 100
recommended is w40
stay in bangalore which is not that hot

Why not! But I'd suggest you go for 5100 10w40 which is cheap and would suit your bike's needs to.

Cheers!
VJ