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Help regarding buying new bike. Rounded off to KARIZMA ZMR. Is it worth?

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  • #76
    Errr....aaarghh... all you guys are right with Fi & carb; I'm out of this discussion as I don't see a point in discussing this!!! Request all of you do me a favor...don't pull me anymore. Good Bye!!!

    My sincere apology to the thread starter
    Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
    Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
    ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

    Comment

    • #77
      Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
      And as for your earlier query, I hope you happen to know why running a FI bike on low fuel is 'not recommended'. If you do know it, I need not answer that particular query.
      i know why we shouldn't have less then 2L petrol in our bike's tank having FI but its not that you just can't run your bike in that condition or your bike will stall..so you can still run your bike to that nearest place from where you can put fuel in it..that's why i am not understanding your point properly..or may be i am missing some point of yours
      Suzuki Gixxer - Current
      Karizma ZMR <3 - Sold
      Apache RTR160 - Sold
      Honda Stunner - Sold
      LML Energy - Sold

      Comment

      • #78
        Originally posted by aargee View Post
        Why?
        Because its not.

        Originally posted by aargee View Post
        This is what I was saying, no difference from what you say too
        And as I said, 15k-20k for this is not worth.
        And surely not when one is on a budget & he might not take the bike to high altitudes.

        Originally posted by aargee View Post
        Had you not said DIY, then there's a biggest mistake in the statement; but for sure, no Fi system requires to be checked or tuned for...say 20-25K, while that's not the case with carb'd engine.
        And what make you say that the carb does need to be tuned more frequently?
        And if they do need to be tuned, what exactly is tuned in them?

        Originally posted by aargee View Post
        Since you're blessed with a good ASC, you're enjoying, had it been a lousy people like most ASC's here in Chennai, everytime they screw up the carb bad & one has to keep going back & forth
        In 2003, my Fiero did got serviced at a service center in Chennai too.
        egarding the good ASC, may be they followed the saying that "if it isn't broke, don't fix it".



        Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
        Thank you Navendu for your valued opinion.
        Did I read it correct?
        Last edited by nav75; 05-03-2012, 06:24 PM.
        2000 Suzuki Fiero | 2004 Bullet Electra | 2004 RX135 | 2005 CBZ | 2009 Karizma | 2009 Punto 1.4 Petrol | 2011 Yamaha YZF-R15

        Nav is back !!!
        Getting Leh'ed. Since 2007...

        Comment

        • #79
          Originally posted by siddharth_ZMR View Post
          price for a technology is never determined by the cost of spares of it. secondly HH has to pay to honda royalty for using their technology wherein i believe hysong has its own FI technolog. Lets not talk about utsav's case here. It had many contributing factors to it.....
          Yes, they did, and it cost them money for RnD. They had to recover it from the bikes but what did they do?

          As for Utsav's case, I believe you haven't talked to him for a while now. After his RTR, believe me, he is much wiser.

          Anyways, I specifically refrain from commenting on ZMA vs ZMR because what I think might be different from what ZMA / ZMR owners think. But since it was turning into a carb bashing thread, I thought my inputs won't be minded. A carb may be outdated technology right now, but its strength is its simplicity (Almost like the AK-47 rifle). This simplicity can make it infinitely adjustable and configurable as long as it doesn't have to bow out due to the oncoming stricter emission norms. Since this topic is officially over, I am also off this thread.

          Also, Thank you Satyajit for the besshhtesshht post of this thread (closely followed by Nav's).

          Edit:

          Originally posted by 111diablo111 View Post
          i know why we shouldn't have less then 2L petrol in our bike's tank having FI but its not that you just can't run your bike in that condition or your bike will stall..so you can still run your bike to that nearest place from where you can put fuel in it..that's why i am not understanding your point properly..or may be i am missing some point of yours
          What if you burn your fuel pump in this process. Isn't the fuel savings advantage lost somewhat due to the cost of the replacement fuel pump?
          Last edited by antz.bin; 05-03-2012, 06:33 PM.
          Advice is a form of nostalgia.
          Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

          Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

          Comment

          • #80
            Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
            Yes, they did, and it cost them money for RnD. They had to recover it from the bikes but what did they do?

            As for Utsav's case, I believe you haven't talked to him for a while now. After his RTR, believe me, he is much wiser.

            Anyways, I specifically refrain from commenting on ZMA vs ZMR because what I think might be different from what ZMA / ZMR owners think. But since it was turning into a carb bashing thread, I thought my inputs won't be minded. A carb may be outdated technology right now, but its strength is its simplicity (Almost like the AK-47 rifle). This simplicity can make it infinitely adjustable and configurable as long as it doesn't have to bow out due to the oncoming stricter emission norms. Since this topic is officially over, I am also off this thread.

            Also, Thank you Satyajit for the besshhtesshht post of this thread (closely followed by Nav's).

            Edit:



            What if you burn your fuel pump in this process. Isn't the fuel savings advantage lost somewhat due to the cost of the replacement fuel pump?
            arre nahi re... It was never about carb bashing.... Not for me... I always said FI has some advantages and i was striving for people to accept it... Now in money terms what its value is... i will leave that as an individuals decision... Regarding utsav's bike issue you know far better then me.... Good for him...
            WARNING!! Objects seen in Mirror are Disappearing Rapidly!!!!!!

            Never be Afraid to Slow Down!!!!

            Comment

            • #81
              Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
              Yes, they did, and it cost them money for RnD. They had to recover it from the bikes but what did they do?
              when you have your own technology and you have recovered the cost then its your pricing decision whether you want to charge for it or keep price low and penetrate the market.
              in case of HH they dont have this option. Its not their technology and so they have to pay Honda for it. And that is why they cant reduce the price otherwise they may go below BEP which may result in losses ....
              WARNING!! Objects seen in Mirror are Disappearing Rapidly!!!!!!

              Never be Afraid to Slow Down!!!!

              Comment

              • #82
                Originally posted by siddharth_ZMR View Post
                when you have your own technology and you have recovered the cost then its your pricing decision whether you want to charge for it or keep price low and penetrate the market.
                in case of HH they dont have this option. Its not their technology and so they have to pay Honda for it. And that is why they cant reduce the price otherwise they may go below BEP which may result in losses ....
                Hyosung did what they did because they could manage it. They also had to recover their RnD cost. Royalty is nothing but paying someone to do RnD for you.

                How does it matter to the end customer where HMC gets their FI modules from? In a few days they will even stop using the PGMFI name. As long as it all 'works' it shouldn't matter or should it? As an example.. If your bike's chain snaps in the middle of a ride leaving you stranded, whom would you blame? Rolon/Diamond chains or Hero Honda? Alternately, if the chain lasts 1,50,000 km, whom would you praise?

                What I feel is, If the buyer feels that the tangible benefits of Fi are justified by the price difference, he might as well pay the difference.

                Our job is to educate, not indulge in bashing (not hinting that you specifically were).
                Last edited by antz.bin; 05-03-2012, 07:30 PM.
                Advice is a form of nostalgia.
                Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

                Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

                Comment

                • #83
                  Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
                  What if you burn your fuel pump in this process. Isn't the fuel savings advantage lost somewhat due to the cost of the replacement fuel pump?
                  its not that sensitive..its a rare case when anyone's fuel pump got malfunctioned because of this reason..at least i haven't come across any yet..
                  Suzuki Gixxer - Current
                  Karizma ZMR <3 - Sold
                  Apache RTR160 - Sold
                  Honda Stunner - Sold
                  LML Energy - Sold

                  Comment

                  • #84
                    Dear R15, CBR, Duke Owners, and all first generation 220FI owners,

                    Raise your hand if your fuel pump has gone bust due to storing less than 4litres of fuel.

                    Thank You


                    PS:
                    Super CommuTOURer� - Talk less, Ride more

                    .: FB :.|.: TW :.|*IG*| Ex                     PowerDrift:.

                    #Give thy opinion, write em, dont throw em
                    #Everyone errs, accept it, defending/cribbing about it only makes it worse
                    #Dont defend a manufacturer as if you work for them
                    #Write. Think. If relevant hit submit. If not hit yourself
                    #Be kind in your choice of words, you never know who would make you gulp em
                    � Satyen Poojary

                    Comment

                    • #85
                      Originally posted by 111diablo111 View Post
                      its not that sensitive..its a rare case when anyone's fuel pump got malfunctioned because of this reason..at least i haven't come across any yet..
                      Running with low fuel in the tank is the single biggest reason for submersible fuel pump failure regardless of what vehicle it is in. Thats the reason it is 'recommended' that you do not run the bike with low fuel. Would you use engine oil on your bike with a grade which is other than what was 'Recommended'? There is a reason a manufacturer 'Recommends' some things.
                      Last edited by antz.bin; 05-03-2012, 09:04 PM. Reason: Changed link
                      Advice is a form of nostalgia.
                      Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

                      Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

                      Comment

                      • #86
                        Originally posted by satyenpoojary View Post
                        Dear R15, CBR, Duke Owners, and all first generation 220FI owners,

                        Raise your hand if your fuel pump has gone bust due to storing less than 4litres of fuel.
                        Is it supposed to go bust or not?
                        OT: In case of R15, once it hits the "F Trip", there is around 2lt of usable fuel. In case fuel pump is to go bust, does it mean we got to fill well before "F Trip"?
                        2000 Suzuki Fiero | 2004 Bullet Electra | 2004 RX135 | 2005 CBZ | 2009 Karizma | 2009 Punto 1.4 Petrol | 2011 Yamaha YZF-R15

                        Nav is back !!!
                        Getting Leh'ed. Since 2007...

                        Comment

                        • #87
                          The recommendation is for two reasons
                          1. The accuracy decreases as the fuel decreases from the minimum threshold mark
                          2. Very low fuel pressure would mean more stress on the fuel pump in pumping the fuel

                          More fuel pumps in India choke (which in itself is an extremely small number) due to bad quality of fuel than for running low fuel. I know of people who have ran thier bikes in 100Rs ka petrol all throught its life....

                          PS: You guys are stuck up on senseless arguments which have VERY little relevance on the original query. If FI vs Carb interests you why not add one more thread in this giant community and spare the rest!

                          Mods - What are you guys smoking?

                          Edit: Nav paaji
                          1.8Litres is what you have when it first shows the F light. It doesnt go bust it just gets confused in assessing how much fuel is left in the tank. The 4litre rule is a healthy habit.
                          Last edited by satyenpoojary; 05-03-2012, 08:54 PM.
                          Super CommuTOURer� - Talk less, Ride more

                          .: FB :.|.: TW :.|*IG*| Ex                           PowerDrift:.

                          #Give thy opinion, write em, dont throw em
                          #Everyone errs, accept it, defending/cribbing about it only makes it worse
                          #Dont defend a manufacturer as if you work for them
                          #Write. Think. If relevant hit submit. If not hit yourself
                          #Be kind in your choice of words, you never know who would make you gulp em
                          � Satyen Poojary

                          Comment

                          • #88
                            Originally posted by satyenpoojary View Post
                            The recommendation is for two reasons
                            1. The accuracy decreases as the fuel decreases from the minimum threshold mark
                            2. Very low fuel pressure would mean more stress on the fuel pump in pumping the fuel

                            More fuel pumps in India choke (which in itself is an extremely small number) due to bad quality of fuel than for running low fuel. I know of people who have ran thier bikes in 100Rs ka petrol all throught its life....

                            PS: You guys are stuck up on senseless arguments which have VERY little relevance on the original query. If FI vs Carb interests you why not add one more thread in this giant community and spare the rest!

                            Mods - What are you guys smoking?

                            Edit: Nav paaji
                            1.8Litres is what you have when it first shows the F light. It doesnt go bust it just gets confused in assessing how much fuel is left in the tank. The 4litre rule is a healthy habit.
                            Please read what I wrote in the post which started the fuel pump debate. I have nothing more to say. Why again is keeping 4 liters a healthy habit? Alternately, Why is keeping <4 liters unhealthy? Whom is it unhealthy for? Because I happen to think it is very healthy to keep <4 liters in the bike. Please tell me why I am wrong.

                            Edit: There is a Bolero which M&M Factory people drove from Kashmir to Kanyakumari without putting any engine oil in it just to prove its reliability. (<- True Story) Maybe we should all drain engine oils from our bikes because apparently it is useless..

                            Edit 2: I smoke and I didn't die of cancer. This means I can never die of cancer.
                            Last edited by antz.bin; 05-03-2012, 09:24 PM.
                            Advice is a form of nostalgia.
                            Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

                            Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

                            Comment

                            • #89
                              Man this thread got comic way back at page 2!!!

                              But satyen that pic took the cake man!!! ROFL!!!

                              Personally, my 2 cents for the OP, dude go for the latest technology as much as possible. If you don't have the cash then go for the lesser model. And dont think that it is less in any way cause by god the karizma is one bike which has proven its worth time and again. Funnily enough the only thing I hate in karizma is the front mud guard!!! I dont know what but there is something wrong with it!

                              Had I been given the option by Honda, I would have bought a FI bike. Carb is seriously ancient technology and while it is a proven tech, doesn't mean its better than latest tech.

                              Also I feel that Yamaha/Honda FI is gonna be way better than Bajaj/TVS FI which is y in the latter case the FI was rolled back whereas Honda/Yamaha are NEVER gonna roll back their FIs. This only because Yamaha/Honda have been players in the FI field internationally since before I was born. Bajaj/TVS are still half-naked kids playing gilli danda in the ground!
                              ---

                              ~~Triplogs~~
                              H G B | Ooty-Kotagiri-Sathy - Epic Marathon Ride | Yercaud | Kudremukh Tea Estates

                              ~~~DIY~~~
                              Paint Your Panels | Airfilter Change | Carb Tune

                              Comment

                              • #90
                                Originally posted by vishnurajanme View Post
                                Friends, I am planning to get a good "comfortable" bike as I need to travel a distance of 300 kms from my work place to home, during weekends.
                                Also, I prefer a bike to car. Coz I love bike riding. Apart from that, mileage is also a constrain. So finally rounded off to KARIZMA ZMR 2011.

                                But now the issue is most of my friends are asking me to get an R15 instead of ZMR. My budget is limited. Even if I am stretching, Will it be good? I am 5.10. Around 80Kgs. I have never ridden an R15, but usually rides my friend's Fazer which is pretty uncomfortable for me.

                                Is KARIZMA ZMR a good bike for me?

                                My constraints are

                                Mileage
                                Comfort
                                Reliability
                                a lot has been said about so many bikes and i eventually was losinh interest in the thread hence again revisited your requirements..
                                As you want a 'comfortable' bike and you will be running every weekend back from home and will be heading straight to office, i would suggest a thunderbird.. But as mileage is a concern, take an avenger 220 for youself, install the front visor and enjoy the weekend.. Cruise all the way.
                                When you found 'my' fazer uncomfortable no bike mentioned here suits your requirements!

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