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**sayank10** · 05-03-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by siddharth_ZMR View Post

No.. never experienced that in my 20K ride... Please explain

pgm-fi is gem,someday try a rtr fi.

**111diablo111** · 05-03-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by sayank10 View Post

pgm-fi is gem,someday try a rtr fi.

please don't drag this topic to an off topic..we are not posting in this thread to compare FI in honda bikes to others..i hope you understand.

**dual disc 200** · 05-03-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by payeng View Post

Benefits of Fi:

1. Easy start at the first crank, under any condition: I agree

2. Much better throttle response than a carb bike: Not that much of a difference (at least when the engines are warmed up)

I have ridden and continue to ride many fuel injected and carbureted bikes.

Payeng, adding to that FI equipped bikes are also Fuel Efficient. Right?

**payeng** · 05-03-2012, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by sayank10 View Post

pgm-fi is gem,someday try a rtr fi.

Even the pulsar DTS-Fi and the Fi on the Classic 500 had issues with them.

It was/is a learning curve for the Indian bike makers.. so initial issues are expected. Honda and Yamaha have decades of experience behind them, therefore the Fi on these bikes are expected to work without a glitch.

But then apart from hassle free starting, i do not see much of a tangible benefit from Fi.

**siddharth_ZMR** · 05-03-2012, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by sayank10 View Post

pgm-fi is gem,someday try a rtr fi.

i have always talked about ZMR and the technology it has as i ride it everyday... will def try a rtr fi someday if i find one... honestly havent come across a single one... may be a bad fi was the reason it is rarely seen or discontinued... i dont know whether Hyperedge is FI or not... i have rode a carb RTR 180

**siddharth_ZMR** · 05-03-2012, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by dual disc 200 View Post

Payeng, adding to that FI equipped bikes are also Fuel Efficient. Right?

Originally posted by payeng View Post

Even the pulsar DTS-Fi and the Fi on the Classic 500 had issues with them.

It was/is a learning curve for the Indian bike makers.. so initial issues are expected. Honda and Yamaha have decades of experience behind them, therefore the Fi on these bikes are expected to work without a glitch.

But then apart from hassle free starting, i do not see much of a tangible benefit from Fi.

sirji... mileage..... thats also important na...

**payeng** · 05-03-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by siddharth_ZMR View Post

sirji... mileage..... thats also important na...

Originally posted by dual disc 200 View Post

Payeng, adding to that FI equipped bikes are also Fuel Efficient. Right?

Even auto mags haven't reported that great difference in fuel efficiency because of "Fi", maybe 2-3 Kms more.. nothing more than that. But does that minute a difference offset a price differential of Rs. 15,000-20,000..??

Even in Indian cars, it was because of adeherence to Pollution norms (in the late 1990's), manufacturers had to switch to "Fi" and not because of any benefit out of "Fi" to the customer.

**dual disc 200** · 05-03-2012, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by payeng View Post

Even auto mags haven't reported that great difference in fuel efficiency because of "Fi", maybe 3-4 Kms more.. nothing more than that.
But does that offset a price differential of Rs. 15,000-20,000..??

Agreed every bit of what you've posted, but in a FI the required fuel amount for each RPM and engine load condition is plotted in the fuel map loaded/ Programmed in the ECU. Once this primary fuel amount is known, the ECU further adjusts the fuel mixture for the engine and air intake temperatures. In advanced cases of FI it can even adjust to compensate the barometric pressure and altitude which cannot be done by a conventional Carb. So, seeing all these Technology Bells & whistles this 15-20k seems like worth it Payeng. Doesn't it??

**Above_All** · 05-03-2012, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by 111diablo111 View Post

please don't drag this topic to an off topic..we are not posting in this thread to compare FI in honda bikes to others..i hope you understand.

Originally posted by siddharth_ZMR View Post

i have always talked about ZMR and the technology it has as i ride it everyday... will def try a rtr fi someday if i find one... honestly havent come across a single one... may be a bad fi was the reason it is rarely seen or discontinued... i dont know whether Hyperedge is FI or not... i have rode a carb RTR 180

The thread is already turned into off topic & seems soon to be in brand war .
Sidd no matter what technology is on ZMR for some peoples its always been ****tics . Check this post http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/what-bik...tml#post793841
Also they have their mind set & hat bike from Hero & call it hideous . Check post on this page http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/what-bik...st-bike-8.html

**payeng** · 05-03-2012, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Above_All View Post

The thread is already turned into off topic & seems soon to be in brand war .

Correction: The above is not a brand war but more on a discussion on the benefits of "Fi" and is very much in line with the topic.

Originally posted by dual disc 200 View Post

Agreed every bit of what you've posted, but in a FI the required fuel amount for each RPM and engine load condition is plotted in the fuel map loaded/ Programmed in the ECU. Once this primary fuel amount is known, the ECU further adjusts the fuel mixture for the engine and air intake temperatures. In advanced cases of FI it can even adjust to compensate the barometric pressure and altitude which cannot be done by a conventional Carb.

So, seeing all these Technology this 15-20k seems like worth it Payeng. Doesn't it??

I am ready.. but is the "aam" customer ready..??

For example: If the Karizma-R gets PGM-Fi but not the Full Fairing, then would it sell at a 15,000-20,000 premium?

**aargee** · 05-03-2012, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by payeng View Post

i do not see much of a tangible benefit from Fi

Switch altitudes, zero tuning required; no fuel tap opening, closing required; air lock, vacuum inside tank, cleaning the fuel lid etc are things of past.

**dual disc 200** · 05-03-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by payeng View Post

I am ready.. but is the "aam" customer ready..??

"'Aam" Customers are laid back in 18th Century Payeng. Very difficult to convince though.

Originally posted by payeng View Post

If the Karizma-R gets PGM-Fi but not the Full Fairing, then would it sell at a 15,000-20,000 premium?

Let's keep our fingers crossed if they ever plan to do something like that. But trust me, I'll be sold to it provided a 15-20k increase & nothing above that.

**siddharth_ZMR** · 05-03-2012, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by payeng View Post

Even auto mags haven't reported that great difference in fuel efficiency because of "Fi", maybe 2-3 Kms more.. nothing more than that. But does that minute a difference offset a price differential of Rs. 15,000-20,000..??

Sir, the difference if you are cruising at 90-100 is around 10-12 kmpl as i have actually got 50 kmpl where as other carb bikes have returned 38-40... at 120 kmph i have got 35-40 whereas other carb bikes have returned 25-30... this translates to nearly 5-10 kmpl. even the difference is noticeable in city riding conditions. So i would disagree that its just 2-3 kms and yes it would offset the initial price difference very quickly even if you tour moderately.....

**payeng** · 05-03-2012, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Above_All View Post

The thread is already turned into off topic & seems soon to be in brand war .

Correction: The above is not a brand war but more on a discussion on the benefits of "Fi" and is very much in line with the topic.

Originally posted by dual disc 200 View Post

Agreed every bit of what you've posted, but in a FI the required fuel amount for each RPM and engine load condition is plotted in the fuel map loaded/ Programmed in the ECU. Once this primary fuel amount is known, the ECU further adjusts the fuel mixture for the engine and air intake temperatures. In advanced cases of FI it can even adjust to compensate the barometric pressure and altitude which cannot be done by a conventional Carb.

So, seeing all these Technology this 15-20k seems like worth it Payeng. Doesn't it??

I am ready.. but is the "aam" customer ready..??

For example: If the Karizma-R gets PGM-Fi but not the Full Fairing, then would it sell at a 15,000-20,000 premium?

Originally posted by aargee View Post

Switch altitudes, zero tuning required; no fuel tap opening, closing required; air lock, vacuum inside tank, cleaning the fuel lid etc are things of past.

I know that.. and i am more than ready to pay the premium for Fi on any bike. But try selling that to the "aam" customer on the Karizma - R minus the full fairing.

Originally posted by siddharth_ZMR View Post

Sir, the difference if you are cruising at 90-100 is around 10-12 kmpl as i have actually got 50 kmpl where as other carb bikes have returned 38-40... at 120 kmph i have got 35-40 whereas other carb bikes have returned 25-30... this translates to nearly 5-10 kmpl. even the difference is noticeable in city riding conditions. So i would disagree that its just 2-3 kms and yes it would offset the initial price difference very quickly even if you tour moderately.....

Nope, I don' believe.

**aargee** · 05-03-2012, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by payeng View Post

I know that...Karizma - R minus the full fairing.

I was only adding a few intangible benefits of using Fi

Aah!!! don't include me in your debate of "aam aadmi" or "Is it...", I'm not playing that game

Edit - Well, I kinda agree to Siddharth from our recent experience;

We rode our CBR's (not related to this discussion, but still), at 80 Kmph steady for over 350+Kms for a whooping 46 Kmpl, that too tested with 2 CBR's. Any day, however I ride my Rx (or any carb'd engine for that matter), never get more than a specific FE be it 40 or 50. Anyway, higher the speed, lower the FE.

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