That would be more because of the engine getting heated up because of the continuous ripping.. Or may be the air+fuel mixture set too lean which leads to the engine getting heated up.

Exactly

@eshaan What you had was a faulty carb. Ask Utsav to know what happens when FI starts giving problems.

@Ganesh Sir
My bike is carb'd
1. It doesn't need cleaning the fuel lid.
2. It doesn't need fiddling with the fuel tap if you keep 3 liters of fuel in it at all times (like FI bikes) OR if you turn to reserve permanently.
3. I don't need to use a choke because there ain't any
4. It starts in one crank whatever the season as long as there is juice in the battery.
5. Keeping the air filter clean is a good practise regardless of FI or carb.
6. Power output of carb Zen and FI Zen are drastically different.
7. Never been to ladakh so cannot comment on altitude bit.

When comparing something with the CBR, at least try to keep it fair by considering something more modern than an RX.

Coming to Stunner, the difference is due to a modified final drive ratio.

Coming to benefits of carb bikes over FI
1. Given same size of fuel tank, tank range (to empty) of carb bike is more than same bike with FI, even after compensating for lower FE. (better for tourers?)
2. Carb bikes are cheaper. You might never be able to break even considering FE difference, and cumulative insurance premiums and interest for the more expensive bike.
3. FI = more power is a myth busted by the P220.
4. Carb bikes are more easily and cheaply mod-able to provide greater performance than stock.
5. Carb bikes can be fixed at any nook and corner of the country, try getting an R15 fixed outside of a Yamaha SVC.

The topic has gone to dogs, but let me add to the mess:

Carb vs FI

One is a mechanical device to compute and provide Air Fuel mixture.
Other is a digital device (often smarter) to compute and provide Air Fuel mixture.

Why Carb
- Cheaper
- Can be set manually

Why FI
- Often build smarter to be able to interface with external condition and automatically adapt to it


Why is FI expensive than Carb.
Carb has been here for decades now, unlike FI. And like every other industry the time it has been around, has allowed people to innovate and improvise on its pricing.
With the lack of any mandate for FI it flourished. That is untill now. Give FI a few decades, and may be FI would become cheaper and you would laugh we had this discussion!


The world is debating about Anti Wheelie, and traction control, and we at India still ***** about Carb vs FI.

my doubts & answers are in bold..

Of course this doesn't mean that I am against advancements in technology where it is absolutely essential. What I am against is the manufacturer overcharging for the technology. It costs a bike manufacturer less than 5k in material costs to implement an entire FI system on one bike. Considering that a carb on a Hero Honda Hunk costs 6k to buy as spare, 5k for FI ain't too much.

Hyosung has already demonstrated this very fact by not increasing prices of FI GT650 over the earlier carb'd.

So, the fact remains that most of what you pay extra is used to give you warranty in case anything breaks.

@diablo What is the highest run PGMFI bike you know of?

And run the risk

Ok

Not really


Me neither; but 4 members from Chennai made there & it was their experience & comparison between 2 Fi & 2 non Fi

I didn't compare the CC's, but w.r.t Fi & that too regardless of CC & power; also, if I talk hypothetical, then this thread will be no spared like CBR 150R ownership thread.

Add to that...its comparatively difficult stealing fuel from Fi vehicle than non Fi vehicle;

PS - Avoid Sir, RG is just fine

5K isnt true. You might want to check on that.

How much price drop did P220FI and P220 Fastest India had?

IIRC the Averae joe Delphi dumb FI unit costs some 9000rs standalone!

Cost increase (around Rs.10K-15K) just for the "Fi" seems to be the only factor which is still not commensurate for a guy shelling out Rs. 80-90K for a bike. On a Rs. 130K-160K bike the 10K-15K addition for the Fi doesn't seem to hurt that much.

By the way, it looks like even TVS has dropped the Fi from its RTR 160. The 2012 "Beastly" RTR's don't get a mention of Fi.. nor does it now show on it's corporate website.

as of now, only 40+k kms..but still looking good fr many..
even i am wondering about 5k figure as somewhere i read that PGM-FI is costing near about 15k to HMC from Honda..

even hyperedge was a carb version..Apache discontinued FI long back AFAIK..

Let me join the topic but first help the poster with his queries.
What is a acceptable FE figure, that will be ok with you?

Karizma (half fairing), sorry I'm a bit out of touch with the latest naming conventions so not sure what' ZMR etc, is comfortable to ride. At worse, you might have to add some padding to the seat if you feel discomfort over long rides.
One thing that I find an issue in Karizma is the 35w headlamp. You can safely switch to 60W OR 100W but with some mods. Also with 100W, the heat will burn some part of your reflector.

Reliability: If you can live with the little fragile plastic panel mounts, The bike in general should not give any issue.


@Eshan: I have ridden two pulsar's (carb ones). Many times, for more than 100km's at a stretch (including a ride few weeks back in Kutch heat when temp at 4:30pm was 44deg) and doing decent speeds. Never did either bike felt they are loosing power.
Add to that list a Unicorn, RTR60, ZMA that were ridden flat out for hours and they didn't showed any signs of power loss either.

@aargee: You can't use an RX as the benchmark for carb bikes. I have been to Ladakh (if we are going to talk about high altitude) 5 times on two different bikes (Fiero and ZMA) & not once I have touched the carb during the trip. Yes, ZMA carb had to be tuned once at the start and end of ride & between that it worked without issue.
No doubt Fi will and has performed better than carb bikes but its not that carb bike's just can't climb. Now, as the topic starter has mentioned, he is on a budget so I don't think paying 15k-20k(as mentioned as the cost diff) is worth enough. Specially when, who knows, this bike might never visit Ladakh.
Oh and talking about cleaning of carb & all, In close to a lakh km's on Fiero, I never touched the carb/any other part of bike for any DIY, all it did was - go to service center at regular interval and come back. And I know that I'm not the only person to do that.

Why?

This is what I was saying, no difference from what you say too

This is a trap statement; I didn't say that nor I meant that anywhere

Had you not said DIY, then there's a biggest mistake in the statement; but for sure, no Fi system requires to be checked or tuned for...say 20-25K, while that's not the case with carb'd engine.

Since you're blessed with a good ASC, you're enjoying, had it been a lousy people like most ASC's here in Chennai, everytime they screw up the carb bad & one has to keep going back & forth

Whew!!! So much for just talking about the untangible part of Fi

Risk of? Ain't there a Fuel gauge? OH YES!! RXs don't is it? Because P220s do.

So you mean to say SVC people never clean CBR Air Filter?
^^ is not meant to be a taunt. But if your RX goes to SVC as regularly as the CBR, maybe you won't need to DIY clean its Air Filter(exactly like I don't).

Even I wasn't talking cc, I was talking year of purchase. 2009 Vs 2011 in my case. 199x vs 2011 in your case.

Agreed.

The price drop was a massive 15k. I had the option to buy either at the time. I 'unwillingly' went for the Carb only after consulting stalwarts like NV and Praful. I already explained why I feel the difference is this much.
Average Joe Delphi FI unit costs 9k in retail (as spares), not as OEM.

If you buy a Ninja250R completely as spares, I am sure it will definitely cost in the vicinity of 5-6 lac for spares only.

Talk to me about 'rarely causes problems' when the bike is 5+ years old and has run 65-70k km. Because thats the age of the bike I was talking about. All new things remain reasonably reliable.

And as for your earlier query, I hope you happen to know why running a FI bike on low fuel is 'not recommended'. If you do know it, I need not answer that particular query.

Thank you Navendu for your valued opinion.

P.S.: I must clarify that I am not a Honda or FI hater (as some might think). I regularly drive a Honda PGM-Fi product owned by my Father, a Honda Civic and happen to know its benefits.

price for a technology is never determined by the cost of spares of it. secondly HH has to pay to honda royalty for using their technology wherein i believe hysong has its own FI technolog. Lets not talk about utsav's case here. It had many contributing factors to it.....