Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

Query Approved

Since you are going to be doing so much of city riding and not too much high speed highway riding. Why not the Apache 200? ABS, light, low seat height, good handling, easy spares (i think so), parts availability etc. Ticks all your boxes i believe.

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

RTR 200 won't feel like much of an upgrade from current Unicorn. Touring/Travel would be occasional (once in 2-3 months), but once we hit the roads - we cover good stretch of highways and I am not sure if RTR 200 can cruise at 100+ speeds on highways for longer duration. If I use bike for 8-10K KMs in a year around 2K of it would be touring (highways + other stuff) - not on regular basis but spread throughout the year.

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

Check out Honda Rebel 300

It's in your budget and I think should suit your needs too. I talked to Honda showroom they said it's gonna be launched soon!

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

Noting your emphasis is on pillion comfort & mostly city use, you can write off the Dukes & the CBR. Sure, lots of people use them as everyday bikes but they definitely aren’t great if you’ll have pillion most of the time.

I feel your list has narrowed down primarily because of your preference of higher capacity + engine refinement to maintain speeds of 100-120 Kmph alongwith city commuting all as priorities. That’s a tall order.

If I’m not mistaken, upping the budget will not work much to your favour as you know the offerings in the market don’t presently have anything VFM if you’re going to mostly use them for commuting in the city.

I mean, higher capacity with lower mileage and higher cost of maintenance - all this for 80% city use? Not much sense in that, right?

Looks like you’ll have to choose between the Domi & FZ25 - though your points mentioned earlier about them hold valid.

P.S.- From a personal finding : When the Mrs. & myself did a couple of long-ish rides on my friends Dominar, she hated it’s pillion seating. I must mention that this was her personal opinion & our aim was finding a tourer (within 2.5L budget) with nil requirements city usage.

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

manishh - the rtr ABS is your best bet. Not only can it touch 130+ you can keep it at 110 all day. It's got a compression ratio of 9.7:1. Lower than the CBR's 10.7:1.

However I wouldn't buy it myself as the long term review shows some bikes have electrical glitches when exposed to rain for long periods.

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

Which one would you suggest then? Is RTR 200 better than FZ 25?
I was not even considering RTR 200, should take a ride perhaps...

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

Nope. As Honda announced in Auto Expo 2018, they are bringing up CBR 250 with BS IV engine now. I also spoke to Honda people today evening, but they are clueless about old-new CBR 250 launch or indicative price.

I won't have pillion most of the time, mostly I'll ride alone but whenever there is a pillion (wife or my 8yo), they need to be comfortable & safe. Especially my little one when I drop him off to activity classes nearby. He didn't like it when he sat on my friend's R15 or another duke we have in our building. We have seen a heavy teenage girl flying off R15 and hurting her buttocks badly as she landed on the tar road when her rider friend started bike and tried to zoom off. Wife is pillion only occasionally but again she is not comfortable with tall and tiny pillion seats. When all 3 of us are together, we prefer 4-wheeler for obvious reasons.

The point is - though frequency of pillion riding is low, it has to be comfortable & safe when I need it.

I agree - upping the budget is won't help until I want to go all the way to Triumph!

Well, as for 80-20 city-highway usage, IMHO many of us use it that way and I have fairly accurate estimation of my usage here. I mean those who claim higher highway use, do they use it on highway every weekend? We have NH4 expressway here - but 2-wheelers are not even allowed on most of its stretch towards Mumbai. I seriously wonder how often we can maintain speed above 100-120 in India for hours. Obviously, I understand some people need to pass highway every day during their office/college commute and they have higher highway use, but otherwise all those who swear by sports/racing track inspired bikes - when (and how often) do they hit those tracks? Often they are seen speeding around in by-lanes in most unruly manner.

Given traffic in cities like Pune/Mumbai/Bangalore etc, I often prefer to take out my bike when I am riding alone rather than using my car because bike provides much faster and convenient commute. I had anticipated lower city use of bike after I bought my first car 12-13 years ago, but that didn't happen. Besides my love for biking, the major reason for this is the sheer convenience/maneuverability through traffic that only a 2-wheeler can offer.

Anyway. I understand and agree to an extent with what you say about buying a premium bike and using it mostly for city ride. That's the reason I am not seriously considering R3 that I have otherwise liked immensely and I could shell out 4L if I saw some real use of that twin-cylinder beauty. So my plan now is to find something in 1.5L to 2.5L range which would give that premium feel and more power when I need it. I don't want another 150 CC commuter, I want an upgrade. I personally believe that 250-300 cc (or price range of ₹ 1.5L to 2.5L) is the new premium-commuter segment ahead of 150 cc commuter bikes; just as 150 used to be a decade ago ahead of economy 100 cc bikes. Many working professionals who are bike enthusiasts can easily shell out this amount for a really premium & reasonably powerful bike. At the same time, they are often married/hooked people and care for comfortable pillion as well. As someone said on this forum itself, "I love my bikes, but I love my mom more!". One can replace mom with wife/girlfriend/son/daughter and get the point. A reliable, premium cruiser/naked bike with power would sell well, but most manufacturers are not going beyond so called "sporty/racing" design here. I think Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki are not launching the right products in this range despite being the most trusted brands here with great sales. Honda is neglecting CBR 250 and FZ 25 has become new CD100 of 250 cc segment. Suzuki has no product in 250 cc range yet. Benelli was good, but given tons of problems DSK is facing, fact that TNT25 didn't keep up with times and its poor ASS, I'd rather stay way. TVS 310R is beautiful, I would have purchased it if I were in my 20's and single. I don't fancy such fully-fared, giant looking bikes anymore. I wish BMW had launched its GS 310 naked variants now (I was looking forward to it in the Auto Expo), but they would be available by year end and I don't want to wait that long. I wish Honda had launched CB300R instead, but they didn't.

Ideally, I'd love to own a cruiser/naked bike like CB300R or lighter Thunderbird with Honda/Yamaha's refinement and reliability. But all that is just dreaming. So I need to pick from what's available now in the market. That probably means FZ 25, I was somehow not comfortable with Dominar handling when I tested it few months ago. Nevertheless, I'd give it another try soon.

Curious to know, which one did you pick up? :-)

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

[MENTION=11251]manishh[/MENTION] - well, I'm around the same height, though 25 kg heavier. I feel you will adjust to the Dominar soon. Your muscles will get stronger. All that matters then is your wife's take on the pillion seat.

Personally, I would keep the unicorn for small family trips and buy the Apache 310 RR for highway use. Carrying pillion spoils the fun of a sportsbike.

Dominar body styling is not my cup of tea. The bike's I've seen have poor paint quality on the engine. And the plastic tank turns me off.

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

We chose the Himalayan & booked it. It was tough choice between the Mojo & the REH as our need was a 2up tourer on a budget. The REH won our choice primarily because of the surprisingly smooth engine, the pillion comfort and SVC accessibility. Whether we land up with lemon from the RE stable or not is a chance we’re taking.

+1 to most of the points you’d mentioned above about the miserable choices the mature buyers have unless they’re okay with premium segments for enjoying reliability, refinement & as in my case, 2up riding.

So people like me (and many others) end up opting for an off-roader like a Himalayan and use it mostly on the highways [emoji849]

I don’t know much about the FZ25 but I suggest you take a good look into it. Somehow, I wasn’t personally awed by what the Dominar offered or it’s refinement. Just my opinion.

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

[MENTION=58594]leech[/MENTION] - I found Apache 310R quite bulky/big and I don't particularly fancy fully-fared bikes now.

I took few test rides today -

1. Dominar - This was my second ride Did not like handling if this bike at all. It makes its weight felt, turning radius is larger and somehow I am not comfortable riding this bike. Matte black looks great, but didn't like golden alloys at all. Older ones were much better. Anyway. I am not considering this bike anymore.
2. RTR 200 - ABS not yet available, waiting of 1.5 months for ABS. I took test ride of carb model there. Nothing great, handling is average. Better looking as compared to FZ25 (subjective) but not exciting.
3. FZ 25 - All my criticism withstanding about Yamaha's cost-cutting, the handling and refinement is super. Engine is smooth, though I couldn't really experience low-end torque much in my short ride, I felt most at-home on this bike coming from Unicorn. Light and nimble handler. Wife found pillion acceptable as well, in fact slightly lower and flatter as compared to RTR 200. If nothing else works out, I might settle for this one.

I'll check with another Honda showroom here to see if they have any information on the new CBR250. Though that one is not exiting either....

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

think the most difficult choice in biking right now is what bike between 1.2 to 1.8 lacs..
Have you settled for a bike yet? I am going through the same dilemma.. i currently own a hero motocorp karizma zmr.. which i use for daily chores, commute to gym and occasional long distance(500-1000km once a month).. i am quite satisfied with the bike but am looking for a worthy upgrade..
I am a big fan of high torque at low rpms, a relaxed tourer and good mileage.. recently i have started becoming a fan of good road presence..
My dilemma is which bike 200-300cc which gives me good low end torque, relaxed touring on highway amd hills, good mileage and road presence..
The two bikes i have shortlisted after a hell lot of research are fz25 and cbr250 but both the bikes lack one or the other requirements that i have.. fz lacks road presence and cbr lacks low end punch and even is short on comfort.. is there any bike upto a 1.5 lacs budget which may fulfill my requirements.. rr310 fulfills all of them except mileage which i can live with but going way out of budget..

Any help is appreciated
P.S. Dont want KTMs and I am ok with buying a used bike also.. I had also considered rs200, gtr250 hyosung, dominar, in the equation..but all getting eliminated due to falling short on criteria..

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

You can look at the Himalayan. 32nm torque at just around 3.5k rpm. My brother has the BS4 variant and is very smooth even at the redline.

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

Himalayan though a very good suggestion has its own cons. Sorry to be a pain but being a technically inclined person has its cons and i hate it. Himalayan being a 190kg heavy bike is difficult to maneuver, tip into corners and tackle twisties. Its super long stroke at 86mm albeit gives loads of low end torque but make it less revv happy. So not a good choice for traffic light GPs and occasional bye byes to cars/bikes that try to race you. I even feel stroke of karizma at 66mm is longish making it less revv happy as compared to competition. Now stroke of rs200 is 49mm which makes it super revv happy but almost no torque at low revvs..it only starts building torque post 4k rpm onwards.. ideally stroke should be 58mm to 62mm to reap benefits of both low end torque and good revvability.. its not a coincidence that stroke of apache 200 and fz25 is 58mm, dominar and duke 390 is 60mm, duke 250 is 61mm and rr310 is 62mm.. right in the territory of torquey and high revving..ofcourse there are many other factors invloved but the bore amd stroke are old school fundamentals..

Here by "revv happy" i mean fast revv build up or fast climbing revvs..

Heart says cbr250 but mind says fz25 [emoji14]

Re: Need to finalize: Daily ride + tourer around 2L

@ Sahil Goel - haven't yet booked, but inclining towards FZ25 as it seems to be the most practical option now albeit few niggles (quicker rear brake wearing, vibrations, shaky & poorly illuminated headlight, useless rear mudguard spraying water on pillion etc). If you ask me, there are no really good options below 5L if one is looking for a reliable naked bike that can handle city ride well as well as add up as a tourer.

CBR250 is great, but really disappointed with Honda that they didn't put any efforts to make it more contemporary despite taking a year to launch BS-IV model. I find it rather dated and I am not a fan of fully-fared bikes or so-called sports bike.

I understand your concern about road-presence (I personally prefer stealth, silent performer ones) and FZ25 doesn't really have distinct character/presence of its own, so you can consider fazer 250 in that case (since you seem to like fully-fared looks) or consider custom paint/wrapping job for FZ25 itself. A well designed wrap can definitely give you that road presence.