Topic Approved.

So your point is that only Cruisers and Sportsbikes are liked in India? Well, I honestly disagree. People need attractive, second look kind of Premium motorcycles. And that doesn't necessarily relate to a fairing or laid back cruiser positioning.


Even a streetbike like FZ1 gains attention on Indian traffic signals as I noticed once. Why? Because a real premium bike comes standard with some serious stuff which grabs attention: Big tyres, big engine lurking out from under, that inline-4 cylinder music, etc.
Now, you can take any big street/ sports bike sold in India, and they do have these characteristics. Don't they?


For us, its not like which category of bikes exist. Its like, only those bikes exist for us which fall in our budget, fancies and needs.
Get an Fz1 made & sold in India for Rs. 5 Lacs, and it will sell in acceptable numbers. Nobody will give a damn about lack of fairing, with those 4 golden exhaust pipes sticking to the massive engine.

Fairing doesn't count, the "feeling" does.

1. Not everybody who likes full fairing is of poser mentality.
2. KTM/Bajaj is not underestimating the customer base, if at all a fully faired 390 is launched ahead of its naked variant, it only means that BAL knows that they have to cater to all segment of buyers i.e. naked lovers and full fairing lovers. you cant have only one type of bikes and expect to be a market leader.
3. Not everybody who rides an R15 have wrist or back pains.
4. just like you can not imagine to go over rock and dirt confidently on a R15 type of bike, similarly the lovers of fully faired bike can't imagine to do high speed highway runs on a naked bike with no wind protection and upright riding stance.
5. The reason why we do not have all type of bikes in indian market is because this is still an emerging and growing market, few years ago, we couldn't even imagine bikes like CBR250, Hero impulse being made in india or bikes like Hyosung GT650R, GT250R, Harleys being assembled in india, but now we have. heck we even have aprilia showroom in india.
6. So, chill bro, markets don't develop overnight, factories are not built overnight and neither are motorcycles. everything takes time.

period.

I don't know why you feel bad about it, but I for one will be absolutely overjoyed to hear that the 390 will be fully faired. I am looking for a powerful bike that can do good top speed on the highways without much strain and I find the 44 hp 390 faired duke to do just that. I thought I might have to pick the less powered but expensive N300R, but if KTM releases a faired 390, I'll definitely pick it up.

Re: KTM 390 Duke is a sportsbike!

First off, if I gave the impression that I dislike sports bikes, and all faired bike riders are posers(is that what I said? Seriously?), not at all the case. I'd love to own one, have always wanted the 918 for the last 15 years.
I've always disliked cruisers, but that's my personal taste which shouldn't bother anyone else.
That said, using a 'sports bike' as an everyday transport in Indian city traffic, is not practical. Why? Seating posture. The crazy traffic and maneuvers one has to pull, to keep going, will not be as easy to do compared to a street oriented bike, hence it's name. It will put more stress on the wrists, and the back just gets affected as well because of the constant leg down and body forward, in traffic. That is not how one sits on a sports bike, you're meant to be moving.
R15, while not having as specialised a posture for sports riding, is still much more forward leaning than, say a pulsar, fz, duke, etc. Now like I mentioned, I have never ridden one, and I might be entirely wrong, but what I see and am able to compare with r15 riders on the road, I seem to be having an easier time navigating traffic on my 200, specially when you're wading through hr long traffic, and exponentially increasing. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, gifted with stronger wrists, higher threshold, and exceptional riding skills to navigate much better than I can even if I was riding the most street bike a bike can be.

And Indian liking only cruisers and sports bikes? Of course not! I for one am living proof, that is not the case, and I am certain there are many more like me. What I meant was that the proportion of Indians liking sports and cruisers is unnaturally high, which might be because it's what we have been most exposed to in this country, hence what we know the most. And I mean, among the entire Indian population, not just this forum, in case.

@samarth why I am ranting, is because a high degree of buyers are concerned about how the bike looks at a traffic light. I'd want my bike to have a good standard stuff like tyres, double disc, etc, to give me a better riding experience, not at all to get looks at lights.which is why KTM might be relooking at launching a sports bike rather than the 'duke as it is meant to be, a naked street sport cross'. I'd rather have the looks of the bike blend, so that i don't have to be scared when i park my bike and leave it unattended. Ask any imported bike owner about their woes of parking. There is a very real fear of damage from people fiddling around, and sitting on it. The FZ1 infact blends in relatively well because there is a similar looking FZ16.

@prince Very very aware how young the indian bike industry is. But if i am not mistaken, KTM is being manufactured at the Chakan plant, which already exists so it solves your building a new factory point, and the 390 Duke as it is meant to be will be, if not already, manufactured and exported at the chakan plant, which solves the bringing in new tech point.
I never meant i had a problem if ktm launches a smaller bore rc8 type model. by all means please do. the more the merrier. I might even pick one up as a second bike for occasional rides.
My point is, if you read the article, is why hold back the 'DUKE' 390 despite it being manufactured at the indian plant already? I think this was mentioned in another article for which i cannot find the link at the moment.
And the 1st 2 questions in my post was an 'either or' type of question. The second question was wishful thinking. Im sure KTM market research isn't that bad!
of course there are different kinds of riders, which is why there are different kinds of bikes in this world, as well as different kinds of everything else that exist. Again, my comment was on why hold the release of something that is anyway being manufactured in the indian plant, and release something else just for the indian market. They will release a naked version, but then, is that the duke? Which is their line of naked street bikes. RC8 is something entirely different. if the faired version will just be the same duke with fairing and lower handlebars, modified footrests, of the duke 390 which as i mentioned twice before IS going to be manufactured for export, what is the problem with releasing the duke as well?
Maybe there is some problem which i'm not aware of. But from what i can glean from the available info, i dont see one.

@ezilkannan If you're looking at long distance touring, the sportsbike visor shield does absolutely nothing to protect you from the wind. nor, again coming back to ergonomics, does the riding stance. And acc to the article the touring model won't be out before 2014!! Hell of a long painful wait!!!
If you read my profile, i used to own a RD 350 a bunch of years back, and for various reasons i had to sell it. Ever since then I've been expecting a spiritual successor to that. And the KTM 'DUKE' 390 seemed to fill that void. with this background i'm sure you can understand where i am coming from.

Hope i have clarified my rant to you guys, so as not to sound as one sided as i did before. That was fresh off reading the overdrive article.
anyway, heres another one more recent which gives me hope personally (sorry Prince - http://www.zigwheels.com/news-featur...preview/15023/ "Building further on the fundamentals of affordable performance is the soon-to-be-launched KTM 390 Duke that packs in blazing performance, world class equipment, solid fit and finish and a 200 like radical exterior make-up wrapped up in an attractive price package."




Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2 (edited on a full keyboard computer)

bro, not every biker rides mostly in city, there are bikers whose 90 % riding is on highways. so obviously they will buy and like a bike suited for 90% rather than 10%. plz understand priorities can differ, while you have "comfort in city riding" as the top most priority, others may have something else. it depends on what your priority is and second thing.....he (means most india bikers) has been riding bikes which were do it all kind of street bikes, suitable for within city commute, with riding stance varying from commuterish to street, these bikes were practically naked. only difference being power and handling, but while duke optimizes power, these indian bikes tried to give as much power as was possible with KMPL demand also to be met. so what he has never owned is a bike with full fairing, a bike with sporty riding stance, and since he has never tasted these, he would like to own one, THEN when his desire is fullfilled, he may or may not come back to street bikes. this may be another way of thinking about it.

Sorry my phone decided to post ahead of me finishing my post, hence you replied to a half post. Do read above.
Again, Very aware priorities are different for different people. But fact, majority are into sports(not even tourers and sports tourers) and cruisers in india, primarily because of level of exposure. Please note, the post i make are my views only, and obviously coloured by my experiences and priorities.

I was hell bent on owning a sports bike till even 3 yrs back. But in my experience the traffic i face, the condition of roads of have to ride on daily made me change my mind. I would love a sports tourer, as those have a less aggressive posture and more suited to indian roads. But it doesn't look like there will be anything exciting enough(acc to me) or affordable enough in the near future. I hope i am wrong though.
Early last year i was seriously looking at getting the Ducati Monster(695) despite it's astronomical cost, on EMI. But again, relooked, being a person with limited means(can't afford to own multiple bikes for different occasions) , with the wish to travel on my bike, on varied roads(or lack of), the monster wouldn't have faired too well being designed purely for the street. Duke fits my personal choice almost perfectly, marrying the off road, on road. Maybe they will release a well designed front visor to help with the wind buffeting on high speed long rides.

For your sake and mine, hope they release both, a sports oriented as well as a street oriented, in 2013 Q1 as initial reports mentioned. Either way, june is too far off to know how this story pans out. But i hope they never release a cruiser version!!!
Now before the cruiser fans get upset at my comment, don't take it too seriously, but no i'm not kidding, KTM better not release cruisers, that's just not their identity.
Whats up with cruisers anyway? If people want to lie back and ride a motorcycle, why dont they just outfit a bed with an engine and wheels and take it out on the road??? (that means it's a joke)

Not all faired bikes have extremely sporty riding postures. R15 has a very forward "sporty" riding posture, but the Karizma ZMR does not. Same for CBR250R. They're all about as sporty as, say Pulsar 200NS (with rear-set footpegs but only slightly rear set to ensure a more comfortable stance). TVS Apache is a naked bike, but the posture is as aggressive as the R15 if not more.

And on lower displacement bikes, though in India we have less choice, I'd prefer either fully faired bikes or semi-faired bikes (no good examples in India but Kawasaki Versys is a good example abroad). Why ? Simply because there is better aerodynamics at high speeds, resulting in less wind blast (wind blast is a serious turn-off for me atleast) and also higher mileage.

But coming back to average Indian fascination for faired bikes its simply because of the "bigger is better" feel. Small displacement naked bikes look small while the fairing makes it look big. FZ1 has a gigantic 4-cylinder engine which is very visible hence it can sell even without fairing. So every poser on a budget buys bikes like Karizma ZMR.

Do not want! I the naked 390 bike weighs 138kg (just 10 more than 200). That is the best thing about the duke, IMO. almost same weight + almost double power would have been a lot of fun but it looks like it's not to be.


On a second thought, KTM India website already lists the naked 390 as coming soon, so i don't think the article is true to begin with. The faired bike might be the next 6-monthly KTM launch after the naked 390.

See, bikers' different priorities exist. And it may be looks. After all, looks are also a part of the motorcycle market , in India atleast.

And, if you think people may fiddle with your faired bike, then get a naked. Simple.

I for one, do NOT see a real problem here, as long as KTM has multiple editions of Duke 390, like one based on the same minimalistic naked bike design (like Duke 200) and the other full faired. Then its very much ok for almost everyone. Choices are good, and you can take your pic, according to whatever attracts you. Simple as that.

D390 has compression ratio even better to that of 200. Its now 12:x:x. More on the sbk side. Quality fuel needed. Cant be a big problem 'cos its pure city bike!

@Seanature: we got your point bro, let them release both versions, or three if they prefer, a sports, a naked and a tourer. now the sequence of release depends on what they (KTM) think...see a producer may have several movies released for launch, but they almost never do it all at once, they gauge the market and make their strategy, then release one by one, just a small example.






looks matter everywhere, a different example, some chicks in pune roam around with all body perfectly wrapped up so not a single dust particle touches their body or sunlight for that matter. it may be practicle to them, whereas you can also see some half naked sexy chicks roaming around comfortably ...what do we guys do stare them, follow them, ....hell some even marry them....so a percentage of these girls get what they are looking for... you call them rich fool guys ...to marry. mission accomplished, for them. ha ha...don't kill me...intentions and objectives makes all the difference. but are they not girls, hell yes they are....now i have disappeared...so don't for me to kill... ha ha..

My point exactly. Choice.

Why i'm put off, is KTM showed a certain bike during the show, and said it will be available in India, so does their website. Now being the kind of biker I am, that appealed to me. But reading the article, it seemed like the decision to dilute the DUKE lineage by slapping on fairings to appeal to a majority, at one level is selling out according to me, My opinion, I'm not forcing you to agree with me on that. If they decide to bring in the rc line into India, now that's a different thing altogether.
If you look at the 2 bikes side by side(any duke and any RC8), the entire design is different, from the chassis to body panels. They are purpose built.
KTM bringing the bikes they bring, i feel is on the track of making the market grow up, understand there are different types of motorcycles for different kinds of riding. A very small proportion i feel understand this. If we expect companies to treat us well, we have to let them know we understand, and that for example we won't have a VFR being sold under a CBR moniker. Just because a vast majority know the CBR name and will be enthused to buy the vfr anyway.
Where i'd agree on pure sports not making much market sense is that we just don't have the road and traffic quality in the majority of India which these kinds of bikes need to be enjoyed.

I don't think it's as simple as faired or unfaired. That is not even the point i was making. what i'm talking about people fiddling, pertains more to imported bikes in India, be they faired, naked, moto, cruiser, whatever. Hence my point about fz1 because the fz16 exists already which looks similar, hence blending in. The R1 maybe too, as the new r15 body is along similar lines. But take something like the 1200 GS, which is completely unlike anything in India, or the hayabusa, or ducatis. The owner will be stressed, unless they can afford to absorb cosmetic damage costs.

A lot of these replies are to quotes isolated and taken out of context. Do read the entire post before posting the reply. There is something i am trying to say here but i feel the point is missed.
Of course looks are important. Looks are a very important part of any well designed product. But only in india is where a vast majority look only at that, which is a grossly unbalanced way of looking at something. No one wants an R1 that rides like a dream but looks like a donkey, nor should anyone want an R1 that looks like it was crafted by god itself, but moves like a donkey. Why is apple so popular? they make well designed products, that is to say, they perform as well as look good. So despite a lot of underhanded behavior, people still flock to buy them. Good design sells, but just good looks will wear thin in no time.
Indian automotive industry is sensitive only for price and milage. I feel the R15, is superbly overpriced, purely because the market is thirsty and there is a lack of choice.
KTM is heading in the right direction to change that, and soon customers will understand, hence companies will change their behavior. Which translates to better choices for the customer. Although i hope oil doesn't get over by the time we turn our perceptions around.
So in summation, my point, if KTM is serious about conducting properly, without taking shortcuts, they should push their vision as well as balance the market. I feel they are offering way better products compared to the other companies, which are still feeding off the needy indian biking community. and slapping on farings on the duke and calling it a sports bike is a shortcut. Identity diluted...

There prince you are absolutely correct. It's still some time away from launch date, so till then it's all conjecture.
On your second example about looks, might have kept the examples within products, and not gone towards women. But since we're on that, sure the looks will attract you, but if their personality turns out to be horrendous, how long will it last?

The rant about changing their decision to launch a faired model (Still don't know whether it'll be pure sports, or upright street sports, as someone rightly pointed out not all faired bikes are sports) was just my personal one.
My bigger, more serious point was WHAT inspired their decision. A market still young to know what we want and what other choices exist. Choice is meant to be made informed, as informed as possible. only then can it be called choice. otherwise it's like padmini or amby, choose one...that's not really choice. Just because a company is offerrng something doesn't mean it's the best choice out there.
I'd love to have an indian bike market on the level of international markets where the market works hard to please the consumer, not the other way around. And although we're heading more or less in the right direction, it is slow. The way KTM has come in has shaken things up a bit. And i love their idea of releasing a new model every six months. Wouldn't you love to have the choice??? Wouldn't you prefer it if it came sooner rather than later? I feel bajaj has tried to head in that direction, but personally quality, especially build quality feels a bit short. Their relation to KTM might and i hope change that. Yamaha used to be awesome with their RX/RD, and then went back to the stone age. Then woke up with the FZ and the R15, but then what? like i mentioned, i honestly feel the R15 is majorly overpriced, despite build quality and all. Honda/Yamahas are massive companies dictated a lot by markets rather than pure passion. Japanese bikes used to be massive heavy behemoths, the R1 changed that, why, italian sports bikes, smaller, compact, maneuverable, flickable. and of course the sports bike market abroad is a massive battleground.

Re: KTM 390 Duke is a sportsbike!

From what I have read and understood, what bothers you mainly is that a quality manufacturer like KTM, that has a chance to revolutionize the Indian bike market should choose to keep their lines clear and smooth rather than dilute it, like they are choosing to in the case of the duke series. Am I right? If I'm right, then your miffed with the fact that the duke lineage, which is originally a naked bike line, should remain what it stands for - a premium, top of the class naked street bike, and not become something the market demands - like the faired thing KTM is planning. You would rather prefer that if they want to foray into the faired bike market, they bring in another premium line like the RC lineage into India and keep the duke true to what it is... No?

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