Re: KTM 390 Duke is a sportsbike!

YES! EXACTLY! Thank you for articulating it perfectly! (:

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Re: KTM 390 Duke is a sportsbike!

Well then I have to say I expected the same from KTM. I mean its time to bring the exclusives and class into the Indian biking scene. It won't be easy, no denying that, but for an established company like KTM, it should not matter.

Also looking from bajaj's position, this is a first of it's kind partnership for an indigenous company and bajaj should use KTM to rise to new heights, and bring different elements into their bikes.

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@ seanature: the answer to your question is-- bacause KTM is NOT in indian market to revolutionize it, otherwise there would not have an equity based partnership with BAL, BAL could have asked them to design bikes, and then BAL could have produced it here and sold it, the way they want it naked or sports, otherwise KTM could have come solo like Harley, and sold us fantastic naked bikes.

the idea is different. the intention is different.

KTM does not want to be a niche player-- either in indian market or global market, they want to be a volume competitor.

and to be a volume competitor, you can't sell only naked bikes or dirt bikes or cruisers or anything, .... to be a volume competitors you need to enter lower CC markets and you must sell all kind of bikes. and when you are selling all kind of bikes, everytime you can't release only one type of bike first and other versions later, coz that way you will still be perceived as a one segment player only, so while launching a 200 CC they launched a naked, in 390 CC they may launch a faired version first, then may be in 690 CC class they can launch a naked first again... you see mix and match.

they want to be a volume competitor and want people to see KTM as a quality bike maker with all type of bikes, not just dirt bike maker or naked bikes.

well i'm not sure where you've read, i expect KTM to be producing only dirtbikes and naked bikes in India?
I think you've gotten fixated on a few lines from my posts and been continuing on that thread. Or you're confusing what i have been on about. There are countless articles describing their plans
In the foreign markets, KTM works differently from many other companies. Their main strength is off road bikes. that is where they started from. Road bikes was more recent. quick trip to wikipedia will solve this confusion - KTM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If if you have been following ktm news, their intention in India IS to give good technology, for real world prices, which is markdly different in the way they are operating. Case in point, releasing the big jump of a 375cc after a 200cc bike. What have you seen till now? nothing beyond the 200cc area. at the same time they will be releasing lower than 200 capacity bikes, to cater to those markets. this is where they are taking care of profits as well as introducing market changing products and technology that is much more within reach compared to other manufacturers, who are just playing a 5cc game.
Of course they will have to do it while getting their required profits, if i thought any different i'd have to be seriously naive.
If KTM is pushing itself as a company selling quality products and reasonable prices, it gives other manufacturers competition who will then up their game, give better products for reasonable prices. This is better for you as a consumer...i don't understand your hesitation to accept this...

But if in fact companies are only looking at the indian market they way you describe it, then i'd have to say it'd be really sad, and if anyone is serious about biking, and enjoying it, one will have to move to greener pastures as far as motorcycling is concerned...
Anyway, i think i have said enough regarding all this, nothing much more to say, otherwise it'll just be different post, different words, same conversation.

Furious!!!
BTW, I'm enjoying rest of the posts.

Might not be true in your case,but a lot of guys do that.My friend brought r15 v2,don't even know how much power it produces?Only looks matters.Give me something powerful,good for both city,high way,decent comfort,off roading capabilities around 1L,make it look like any 100cc bike in India.I will gladly buy it!
Sadly something like that does not exist in the market.

Regarding fuel for all these new Indian bikes, considering they're coming in with fuel injection etc etc...
All imported bikes NEED the 97 octane as their engines etc haven't been designed to take our lower quality petrol.
Considering so many car owners continue to use normal unleaded, is that the same for the new bikes. have they been "designed for India" so to say? 97 octane is not sold in most stations.
Would like to hear some views on this. Specially from present DUKE 200 owners.

Read this post again. 91/93 acc to the manual.

Sirjee, that was just for fun. I see posers on 125cc mills too.
Sorry for the OT. Pls continue.

Sad truth, which makes it easier for companies to shovel anything they want our way.

Karizma (the older one) was a good bike to take on long rides if the bullet wasn't your cup of tea.

No offence intended @ Karizma owners mate. But I've seen this bike being preferred by posers with my own eyes (ZMR is the cheapest faired bike afterall and it does look really bulky compared to, say Yamaha YZF-R15 or Honda CBR250R that are both compact). You should see them idiots in Bangalore zipping around with silencers removed helmetless on their ZMRs.

But at the same time guys, you have to accept that there are quite a few who like the newer Karizma ZMR for whatever it offers. On xBhp, you'd be insulting nearly everyone by saying "people" are like this and that, because unlike the masses, we (the "people" of xBhp) tend to be proactive bikers (and not pure commuters who need to go to office/college or posers who are desperate to copulate with dumb members of the opposite sex). Everyone shares the same views as @seanature.

And I would like to give KTM the benefit of doubt. Slapping a fairing onto the Duke 390 would bump up its top speed and ensure that if a battle of top speeds happens against Honda CBR500R (its obvious rival in India as well as international markets), it will be able to put on a good fight. And for bikes under 100BHP (very vague estimated figure actually), aerodynamics plays spoil sport with respect to top speed and high speed cruising comfort (above 100BHP you wouldn't touch such bikes' top speeds anyway). Why can't we appreciate KTM for this sort of measure ?

If somebody REALLY has to be bashed for doing things blantly only for marketing reasons, it would be a hypothetical scenario like this: "Kawasaki releases Ninja bikes in India only in black and white because of opposition by the saffron political wing that Kawasaki's Green is a Pakistani color". Thankfully, such a hypothetical scenario has not happened and we'd never see such events hopefully.

In a nutshell: with all due respects for your views (considering most of us share them), this thread is irrelevant because its not something we need to debate or argue about since its a universal truth that cannot be changed (rich posers exist), and poor KTM does not deserve to be bashed because whatever they are doing also has technical advantages.

Dont beat me but this is the relatively well informed bikers (cause they care to read about automobiles on Web) had to vote for....

Archived Polls | MotorBeam - Indian Car Bike News & Reviews

See how the majority chunk opts for a faired thing....

from what i understood, your objection was to the fact that why KTM wants to launch a faired version ahead of its naked version. i was only replying to that.

and i do not have any problem to various companies giving better products at reasonable price. i don't think you have either read properly or tried to understand the reasons...and btw, KTM is here to give good technology...to us poor deprived people, wow, i thought they are doing business...how foolish i was.

Yes i did say that. But that part is my personal point, or rant.

My bigger point was a comment on the MAJORITY(not all) outlook on biking which is the image of R1s and Hayabusas, if not then HD cruisers. That is a little sad, as there so much more variety to motorcycling than just this. And from what i have seen in at least 3 cities in India, the driving factor for this was purely for the looks, more specifically how they they will look sitting on it, mostly without helmets...
Motorcycling beyond commuting is still relatively new in India, so i guess it'll take some time for the outlook to grow. That depends on interaction yes, but a part of it also depends on manufacturers.

From you previous posts, what i have understood that KTM is here for business and not to be unique. Is that what you are saying?
While i agree that any company in order to survive has to have good business sense, there are things over and above, that makes a company successful in the long run.
What i am saying is KTM has a very specific company ethos, The japanese companies are driven by business, first. the balance of ideologies of the companies is different.
Hence my hope with a company like KTM coming is exciting to being their fresh perspective into our market. And then to hear mix and match going on just to cater to one market is a little disheartening. They don't do it for their other markets. Have a look at their line up on their websites
And i'm repeating here, This is referring to just taking a duke and slapping on fairings. my point is the DUke is a duke, and not a sports bike, thats their RC8, built differently for a different purpose. As far as the KTM 390 is concerned, we'll just have to wait and see. Where i am coming from can be summed up in THIS sort of riding, with mainly city street thrown in. hence my very specific desire. The DUKE owes it's lineage to the supermoto style from which it was derived and adapted more for street. search google for "original ktm duke"

That said, India being the unique market that it is, i don't mind if KTM does this initially to break in, but ultimately i believe and hope realign their plan to what the company stands for. That is all that i am saying.

And actually, KTM IS here in fact to give good tech, while Bajaj helps with the volumes end. Interviews HERE & HERE. The ET article in the end actually has them talking about the dilution of the KTM brand.

Anyway, in summation i guess our outlooks on biking and what we expect from it are very different, and we could go on and on, but lets then agree to disagree and get on with the riding?

yes, we can agree to disagree, but i agree to the part that majority people go for looks and what others feel and creates an impression, half of the people buy bullets (no offense to real bullet lovers) for the impression and sound it creates. once, after returning from a long trip, i had a small conversation with an uncle in our colony, and he said-- "you know bullet is a solid bike", and i replied"..ya, my pulsar is liquid...do you know bullet runs on 50 year old technology, has wooden brakes, can't handle, can't corner, leaks oil, vibrates like a tractor".. he replied-"boss, bullet is bullet" , and walked away, and never ever discussed bikes with me.anyway, coming back to point...agree to disagree, just once thing i wanna say- and its my guess- that if KTM launches a faired bike in india, it may launch it globally also. just my guess.lets wait and watch, what 2013 has in store for us bikers.