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The 180cc Big Bore - A story of a FZ-16 getting Tuned

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  • The 180cc Big Bore - A story of a FZ-16 getting Tuned

    THE SILENT KILLER FZ-18 -- LOOKS STOCK BUT WILL VROOM LIKE A ROCKET


    Before I bought Yamaha FZ-16, I was in a impression about it's bully attitude. I thought this one would take over every one. Maybe because I didn't get the chance to ride bigger bikes, I was in a false imagination. After buying the new vehicle, I was still in impression that there was something better in it than others. After two months, I had chance to do a touring involving big bikes like Duke 200 and the old Pulsar 200s and we had great time exchanging our bikes and riding and when I rode Duke 200, I really felt FZ-16 lacked power comparatively.

    I had two options - either to buy the better bike or modify the existing one. Buying better bike would have been better choice but the mileage was an headache for me. I wanted some bike which would give atleast 45 and my fz-16 was just hovering around 37-38 km/l. I was very disappointed. Then came in my mind to do the modds and when I searched race concepts website, I was impressed the tag "Increase in mileage by God margin". I atleast took two months searching all over google.com to know about the reliability of joelled fz-16 and I found out very few failures and didn't also witness many success stories. I was in complete dilemma whether to go for modds or not especially when I saw the story of big bore kit of R-15. I called Joel few no. of times and Shivang (Shv18) was the one who explained each and everything about the big-bore and he was also reason to take this step of getting the bike modded˙.

    Finally on 19th October Friday 2012, my bike was joelled and it was a very adventurous attempt because my friend stays at one end and joel's workshop stays to the other end and in between there is big confusing bangalore city and getting to each side is like crossing a sea!


    19th morning when I reached Joel's workshop at 10.30 a.m., I couldn't see any board of race conecpts because he had just shifted and still the interiors being done. Joel came in a maruti omni and was surprised by his hospitality, he didn't talk much but slowly we got together as time passed by.

    I was wondering how these people bash this poor chap, can't blame him, he is there alone to answer everyone. Hope he would create more Dummy Joels so that he can solve our problems.


    Pre Modd Suggestions:

    It's better you modd the new bike in good condition or else you will end up bashing Joel for no reason. Those who have finished 25k plus on ODO need to open up the engine and check out all the bearings and crankshaft and need to replace the same. Ask your mechanic about the condition about the other parts before you setup this BB kit. Since the tolerance of piston is very high, you need the other parts in very good condition. The whole engine overhaul would be good for the old bikes no matter if you wanna spend extra 10k.

    The Modds:

    Big bore kit (cylinder, piston and rings)
    High Lift Camshaft
    Racing Clutch Springs
    Simota Performance Air filter
    29mm CV Carburettor
    Stock Head Porting (Joel's signature work and his secret)


    The Crew:

    Two of Joel's mechanic came and they were asked to do the big-bore on my bike and they were told to start the work after I get back because I was to go and get the money from an atm. After getting the money the work began. These guys were so expert that they started dismantling the head and cylinder within minutes. These guys were so good that when I would ask each questions, they would answer me. I was doing both photo shoot and video shoot. When I asked about taking the photos and videos, Joel was first reluctant and after understanding my nature, he agreed and I also understood that he wanted to keep the porting part in secret, so I didn't bother about what he was doing. Actually I didn't know what the porting was, I was thinking that the whole structure of head would be changed with some other parts and I only understood when Joel explained me about it.

    Ok, Now let me explain what happened on 19th Friday.

    Disclaimer: The following experience is completely my own understanding and it may conflict with the tuner's explanation and also xbhp member experts here. Any corrections and suggestions by fellow members are most welcome and I am also not to be blamed if anyone is encouraged by this experience and mess their bikes by doing the modds.



    Parts Inolved:

    1. Big bore Kit (piston, piston pin, rings, Cylinder)

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    2. High Lift Camshaft

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    3. Racing Clutch Springs

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    4. Simota Performance Air Filter (Stock replacement)

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    5. 29mm CV Carburettor

    Didn't take the pics (Will post it later)



    The build:

    Joel's mechanics are very fast. I took just 10 mins to rip my bike. Like a rocket speed. Another Fz-16 fella came and I was worried, how they can manage both bikes in just one day and I found that that guy came only for big bore kit and not porting and no carburettor changing. They done his bike in just flat one hour and he left. The mechanic dismantled my bike in no time and I started asking about the condition of each part and he said they're in excellent condition. I thanked God when people made fun of my run-in tricks, I was alone to explain myself but now I'm satisfied that my run-in method was nearly to perfection.

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    These guys are very careful when installing the cylinder and pistons. As shiv said piston tolerance are very tight and the mechanic had to move the piston inside the cylinder with hand for 10-15 min to make it easy. And when installing, if he finds bit wrong, he does the work again and it's only worth to do this kinda work from there itself. This guy, building race bikes has good experience in this kind of work - a slight mistake he finds, he takes the whole thing back and build again. I thank myself that I knew a bit of kannada because he knew tamil and I knew malayalam but since he was staying there he knew kannada well and I knew bit of kannada and we managed our conversation with half mixing malayalam in it but he understood my queries.

    My bike was finished by 6.30 p.m. and could see the whole work done and I video-graphed certain parts of the bike and knew many things. Going there was a blessing for me. I was more happy to see the work done than modding my bike.

    Another thing noticed is that what our local mechanics take day or two to finish the work, for them is just minutes. Simple clutch plates changing, they do it just by bending the bike and without draining the engine oil. Tak Tak within minutes. I haven't seen this kinda fast work anywhere else.

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    Now the bike is built, I will give the pros and cons

    Pros:

    1. There is bump in power. I did 300 odd kms run-in and didn't take the bike above 4-4.5k rpm. I feel more power than stock.

    2. The bike is smoother than before. In stock condition, I felt something is holding the bike but now it's freeeeee

    3. Mileage has increased. At stock I would get 36-38km/l in city riding and now I get 43-45 km/l (Bangalore City Traffic)


    Cons:

    1. High lift Camshaft sound: There is a krr sound which I would hear very little in stock bike after 5k rpm and here the sound starts when the bike is started. Love it or hate it, this sweet sound won't subside, you need to live with it. (Joel told me that there will be decrease in the sound as the kms clock)

    2. TPS won't work. New bikes have dual throttle cable fitted to the carb and a TPS sensor. The engine warning lamp will blink because TPS sensor can't be fitted to this new carb and I still doubt if there is some connection with bike not cranking.

    3. Bike doesn't start with self start button. For first 200 kms bike didn't start with start switch and I had to kick. This problem was there in stock bike for the first 250 kms and once in a bluemoon after that but here I have this problem everyday. if the engine stops in traffic then it will never start with self. Those who don't have kick start will have heavy time and for them the advice is to change the battery with higher power.



    The problem:


    After reaching cochin, my bike started knocking and I was worried greatly. I asked Joel what would be the problem, then it was 87 Octane petrol here. In Bangalore it was 90 Octane, so there was no knocking. I also thought that the slight knocking was part of the run-in process. Joel felt sick just after getting my bike ready and he couldn't check it again. The remedy by joel was to put two cylinder gaskets in place of one so that compression can be lowered. And luckily I got a mechanic who knew Joel very well and he was very keen to do the work. Now the knocking has gone and another trouble came. The starting trouble. This bike won't start second time, I mean after the bike has run for few kms and if it stops then it won't start with self and you must give good kicks to it. Tried to call Joel but came to know he is with fever. The mechanic here suggested that change in spark plug will do the trick and I gave 500 plus bucks and changed to NGK Iridium spark plug and now the bike starts with self but still i need to give few cranks. Will do another few kms of running and find out the exact issue.


    Recommendation:


    I won't recommend this mod to any one unless the are ready to take the risks. If it's a beginner, then it's absolutely no. No matter if you pay for petrol still stock will be better if it comes in perfect condition. Those who live in Bangalore or near to Joel then it's a heaven for them but those stay very far need to find a good mechanic. The BB kit is risky though it's worth.


    • CDI is stock


    • FFE is stock





    More updates to come.

    Want to keep the run-in period till 2k kms.

    Expected Riding style:

    0-500 kms 3.5-4k RPM (slightly moving upto 4.5 once in while)

    501-1000 kms 4.5-5k RPM (slightly moving upto 5.5 once in a while)

    1001-1500 kms 4.5k-6k RPM

    1501-2000 kms 5k RPm - 7k RPm

    2001 and above, the festival of ripping will begin. Will give the top speed (FFE is stock and CDI is also stock)


    Cheers
    Last edited by jonahmano; 10-26-2012, 12:46 PM.

  • #2
    Thread Approved
    Advice is a form of nostalgia.
    Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

    Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi,

      Glad to know you went for the heart operation.

      The BB kit due to higher compression as mentioned on the FZ18 thread requires 91RON gas/fuel/petrol which is very common among major cities and if i am correct all across Maharashtra as normal grade/normal petrol and not Speed/Speed 97. However not the case in B-C cities where it can be as low as 85-87 RON. I guess by adding an extra lower paper gasket like you have mentioned, The compression ratio has been reduced a bit to compensate for the lower grade of fuel octane rating. One can use octane boosters but i don't have much of a knowledge in that field so will not comment/recommend it. Probably other senior riders can throw a light in this regard.

      The things that have been mentioned on the http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/pit-stop...ouse-fz18.html thread stands true in your regard too. In terms of your engine not cranking, i feel post one oil change at 500 kms, the problem will reduce as the tolerances are very very tight, once the parts get honed in properly they will move more freely. I would recommend that you should get your starter clutch overeau checked once if this problem has been persisting even before you went for the mods. If for any reason there is a manufacturing defect or the clutch is burnt, it will get replaced free of cost as the SVC guys just cannot differentiate between the stock and the modded BB cylinder. Or else apply a bit of throttle while starting and see if the problem is not there.

      Regarding your run-in method, i would suggest go through the 1st page of FZ18 thread again in terms of run-in recommendation. If you are way too gentle, you will risk glazing the cylinder walls. On the completion of 1000 kms, you can rev her all the way to the red line however don't wring the throttle too hard thats all. once you hit 2k kms, after warming up the engine, belt the daylights out of her!!

      i am pretty sure, you would want to go for a FFE soon to get the max out of your souped up ride. Ride safe and rev safe too for the time being!!

      Cheers,
      A quote by a toilet, " use me well, keep me clean, i would never tell anybody whatever i have seen.." :P

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jonahmano View Post
        then it was 87 Octane petrol here. In Bangalore it was 90 Octane
        ROTFL Never knew 87 & especially 90 RON were still available in the country!!!
        Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
        Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
        ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by shv18 View Post
          Hi,

          I would recommend that you should get your starter clutch overeau checked once if this problem has been persisting even before you went for the mods. If for any reason there is a manufacturing defect or the clutch is burnt, it will get replaced free of cost as the SVC guys just cannot differentiate between the stock and the modded BB cylinder. Or else apply a bit of throttle while starting and see if the problem is not there.

          Regarding your run-in method, i would suggest go through the 1st page of FZ18 thread again in terms of run-in recommendation. If you are way too gentle, you will risk glazing the cylinder walls. On the completion of 1000 kms, you can rev her all the way to the red line however don't wring the throttle too hard thats all. once you hit 2k kms, after warming up the engine, belt the daylights out of her!!

          i am pretty sure, you would want to go for a FFE soon to get the max out of your souped up ride. Ride safe and rev safe too for the time being!!

          Cheers,
          I don't think there is any problem with starter clutch as Joel said since it's big bore the current battery is not capable of cranking. Now it's just 500kms, I think I have to wait some more. Even my stock bike had this kinda problems for first 250-500 kms and you very well remember that.

          And about run-in, I don't want to mess up with my method. I did same thing with the stock bike and I cross checked with Joel's guy there and he said my run-in method was perfect. And I also confirmed with Joel that I would take the run-in till 2k and he advised me to open the throttle by 1k RPM for each interval. I think I will be fine with it. Since the tolerances of BB kit is high, so I don't want to play with it. I will be patient for all the hard work done by Joel.

          Originally posted by aargee View Post
          ROTFL Never knew 87 & especially 90 RON were still available in the country!!!

          I don't know about other cities. My good friend who works in KRL has confirmed to me that they produce 87 Ron and supply to all bunks. So as far as my city is concerned I am right.

          Updates:

          ODO: 498 kms

          Starting problem vanished: Changed the spark plug to NGK iridium Part no: CPR8EAIX-9

          Now the bikes cranks with self without any hassles. I'm experimenting with the idle speed and I'll give the exact tweak so that this problem gets vanished. Anyways headaches are getting away.

          Confirmed with Joel about TPS and he has cleared my doubts so bike not cranking is not related to TPS anymore

          One more carb tweak is left to be done and that will be done today itself

          Will update about it very soon
          Last edited by jonahmano; 10-26-2012, 11:48 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jonahmano View Post
            I don't know about other cities. My good friend who works in KRL has confirmed to me that they produce 87 Ron and supply to all bunks. So as far as my city is concerned I am right.
            Wow!!! Looks like you have a friend at a very high place Pls ask him to update BPCL's website to stop spreading rumors
            Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
            Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
            ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by aargee View Post
              Wow!!! Looks like you have a friend at a very high place Pls ask him to update BPCL's website to stop spreading rumors
              Hahahaha, you know marketing tactics. Most of the things shown in Ads are not real and you don't have to be an expert to know these silly things and also my friend is working as doctor there and not in production dept.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi,

                I am not sure and don't want to get into this unnecessary argument, however it stands true in the case of NE states like Meghalaya, Nagaland, Sikkim, Arunachal Pradesh and other sisters where the grading is still 87RON at bunks except NRL petrol bunks. I can verify this as my father and uncles are associated with oil exploration & production company, OIL INDIA LIMITED. If one still wants to cross examine the octane rating, i would request friends interested to kindly spend 500INR processing fees and put forward an RTI for the same or else individually collect fuel samples and send it across to testing to a reputed lab and confirm the actual the octane rating. Please don't take it as an offence.

                In Goa, rider Stefann has mentioned that they get 87RON grade fuel however i cannot verify that.
                Last edited by shv18; 10-26-2012, 02:02 PM. Reason: grammer corrections
                A quote by a toilet, " use me well, keep me clean, i would never tell anybody whatever i have seen.." :P

                Comment


                • #9
                  I asked my friend why it is that they won't supply 90 Octane rating petrol here and his answer was to produce the same they need sophisticated production units and also the consumption in cochin is less to produce high Octane petrol compared to the city Bangalore.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jonahmano View Post
                    I asked my friend why it is that they won't supply 90 Octane rating petrol here and his answer was to produce the same they need sophisticated production units and also the consumption in cochin is less to produce high Octane petrol compared to the city Bangalore.
                    Actually not exactly true.. all the refineries and production units are getting upgraded phase wise across India. You should be expecting 91RON and Speed soon even at your local bunks.

                    Cheers,
                    A quote by a toilet, " use me well, keep me clean, i would never tell anybody whatever i have seen.." :P

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by aargee View Post
                      ROTFL Never knew 87 & especially 90 RON were still available in the country!!!
                      Not sure what's so funny, BP and HP serve up 87 Ron petrol throughout most of the country, I have the email reply from one of them somewhere, Indian oil claim they only serve 91 Ron everywhere, we're supposed to be on 91 Ron everywhere as per the BS3 & 4 norms.

                      If you go to any petrol pump and ask to see the latest delivery ticket for petrol, you will see that IOC states 91 Ron for petrol and BP states err.....nada! as for HP I don't even bother.

                      Then add the adulteration which is everywhere, then what you got?

                      As for your CBR, the ECU will retard the timing a few degrees to compensate or else the engine will knock.

                      Originally posted by shv18 View Post
                      Actually not exactly true.. all the refineries and production units are getting upgraded phase wise across India. You should be expecting 91RON and Speed soon even at your local bunks.

                      Cheers,
                      Which decade? this was supposed to have been implemented for tier 3 (or 2, don't really understand the categories) in 2010, for the most part it didn't happen as I had discovered, hence now I make up my own octane booster and it's all good, approx 96-97 Ron ( works out to around 62 bucks per litre)
                      Last edited by stefanm; 10-27-2012, 02:23 AM.
                      Beware of Bread, don't say I didn't warn you!
                      More than 98 percent of convicted criminals are bread eaters !
                      Statistics show that more than 75 % of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread !
                      Bread is known to be extremely addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water, actually begged for bread after just two days !
                      Bread has been proven to kill. Scientists have now uncovered alarming evidence that 100% of the people who eat bread will eventually die !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by stefanm View Post
                        .......( works out to around 62 bucks per litre)
                        62 bux per litre!!!!! thats cheaper by almost 10 bux than what we pay for regular fuel here in Pune!!!
                        Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'Wow! What a Ride!' -Hunter S. Thompson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stefanm View Post
                          Not sure what's so funny, BP and HP serve up 87 Ron petrol throughout most of the country, I have the email reply from one of them somewhere, Indian oil claim they only serve 91 Ron everywhere, we're supposed to be on 91 Ron everywhere as per the BS3 & 4 norms.

                          If you go to any petrol pump and ask to see the latest delivery ticket for petrol, you will see that IOC states 91 Ron for petrol and BP states err.....nada! as for HP I don't even bother.

                          Then add the adulteration which is everywhere, then what you got?

                          As for your CBR, the ECU will retard the timing a few degrees to compensate or else the engine will knock.


                          Which decade? this was supposed to have been implemented for tier 3 (or 2, don't really understand the categories) in 2010, for the most part it didn't happen as I had discovered, hence now I make up my own octane booster and it's all good, approx 96-97 Ron ( works out to around 62 bucks per litre)
                          None of the refineries in india supplies 87 RON petrol. The Minimum specification under BS3&BS4 norms is 91 RON. IOC, HPC & BPC are OMCs.. Petrol for them is mostly supplied by the refineries in that area. For ex CPCL( IOC) supplies petrol to all OMCs in chennai. Similarly BPCL-Mumbai refinery supplies petrol to OMCs in mumbai.Whether IOC, BP,HP states or not.. they are all min 91 RON..( Barring Adulteration).
                          Last edited by muRali.dexTeR; 10-27-2012, 03:07 AM.
                          http://murali-dexter.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by stefanm View Post
                            Not sure what's so funny, BP and HP serve up 87 Ron petrol throughout most of the country, I have the email reply from one of them somewhere, Indian oil claim they only serve 91 Ron everywhere, we're supposed to be on 91 Ron everywhere as per the BS3 & 4 norms.

                            If you go to any petrol pump and ask to see the latest delivery ticket for petrol, you will see that IOC states 91 Ron for petrol and BP states err.....nada! as for HP I don't even bother.

                            Then add the adulteration which is everywhere, then what you got?

                            As for your CBR, the ECU will retard the timing a few degrees to compensate or else the engine will knock.


                            Which decade? this was supposed to have been implemented for tier 3 (or 2, don't really understand the categories) in 2010, for the most part it didn't happen as I had discovered, hence now I make up my own octane booster and it's all good, approx 96-97 Ron ( works out to around 62 bucks per litre)
                            Thanks for your inputs Stefann . In Assam, NRL or Numaligarh Refinery Limited and its respective franchisee petrol bunk outlets now serve 91RON fuel/petrol as normal grade. They also intend to provide higher rating soon. The Digboi refinery and the Guwahati refinery in Assam are currently undergoing revamp to upgrade their facilities to produce higher octane rating fuel. Trouble with crude oil produced in North east has higher wax and sulphur content so clean up and filteration is a b@tch!!

                            Mumbai and Maharashtra to a greater extent does provide RON91. As per my last conversation with officials who came down for an Annual future energy meet and norms set by the Govt., this thing is taken in phase wise.. now knowing the brilliant efficiency of the way things work in India, perhaps i used the word 'soon' too soon!!

                            Cheers,
                            Last edited by shv18; 10-27-2012, 03:05 AM.
                            A quote by a toilet, " use me well, keep me clean, i would never tell anybody whatever i have seen.." :P

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As for the compression and fuel. Its normal to keep the compression under control if you have bad fuel. Nothing to worry, since you have already lowered yours. We get decent fuel in Bangalore. Not sure of cochin.
                              Finish the run-in fully and start opening it in.
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                              [email protected]

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