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**shrirang Shivankar** · 04-27-2015, 07:20 PM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

There is no 'what if' sir! Either there is engine braking or engine knocking. Engine knocks when the RPM has fallen too low for that gear. Engine braking is when RPM is high and reducing fast due to vacuum. As soon as the revs match, engine braking goes off and soon it falls into engine knocking category.
Blipping the throttle while downshifting gives you that seamless feeling of smooth gearshifts. Clutch plates do NOT fry with engine braking.

On the contrary, since you have pulled in the clutch lever already, there is no control of the tranny on the bike.

All I talked about was deceleration, the conversation mislead somewhere.

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**Samarth 619** · 04-29-2015, 11:25 AM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by shrirang Shivankar View Post

I'm also not remembering as to exactly whom I referred at that time.
Though I have a simple question, if we are not accelerating automobile, will it increase mileage if clutch is engaged.
I disengage clutch while accelerator not in use to get better mileage while all my friends do not advice me to do so.

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For a particular second, maybe the fuel consumption might be low when you press the clutch and bring down engine rpm. But this won't reflect in the combined calculations at the petrol pump, when you fill in.
That's because you lose power and put stress on the clutch setup.

What is mileage? Kilometres/ Litre, right?

To increase it, you need to either have more kilometres on a particular litre of fuel. See, logically, maximum mileage is achievable in a riding style, when:

1. the fuel consumption is minimum, (in reference to time)
2. speed is the maximum. (which is a factor of torque & power, plus gearing)

As riders, we strive to achieve the most beneficial balance between above two factors, to get good mileage.

When you press the clutch lever, you disengage the clutch, and you lose power.

The best riding for mileage would be when you need to use lesser brakes and lesser clutch operation.

So, when you sense an imminent stop ahead? Just reduce the rpm well in advance so that no brake or clutch is used AT ALL. Otherwise, a clutch press for downshifting has to be done anyways.

Another thing: Instead of pressing clutch lever when power is not needed, a better way would be to switch off engine and get it in neutral and roll down as far as it would take.
Please note that this is however, not a safe way of riding downhill as there's not engine braking to control the acceleration downhill i.e. good braking would be required then.

**shrirang Shivankar** · 04-29-2015, 04:14 PM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by Samarth 619 View Post

For a particular second, maybe the fuel consumption might be low when you press the clutch and bring down engine rpm. But this won't reflect in the combined calculations at the petrol pump, when you fill in.
That's because you lose power and put stress on the clutch setup.

What is mileage? Kilometres/ Litre, right?

To increase it, you need to either have more kilometres on a particular litre of fuel. See, logically, maximum mileage is achievable in a riding style, when:

1. the fuel consumption is minimum, (in reference to time)
2. speed is the maximum. (which is a factor of torque & power, plus gearing)

As riders, we strive to achieve the most beneficial balance between above two factors, to get good mileage.

When you press the clutch lever, you disengage the clutch, and you lose power.

The best riding for mileage would be when you need to use lesser brakes and lesser clutch operation.

So, when you sense an imminent stop ahead? Just reduce the rpm well in advance so that no brake or clutch is used AT ALL. Otherwise, a clutch press for downshifting has to be done anyways.

Another thing: Instead of pressing clutch lever when power is not needed, a better way would be to switch off engine and get it in neutral and roll down as far as it would take.
Please note that this is however, not a safe way of riding downhill as there's not engine braking to control the acceleration downhill i.e. good braking would be required then.

You have put really a lot of efforts for explaining.

Thanks :thumbup:

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**Divya Sharan** · 04-29-2015, 04:58 PM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by Samarth 619 View Post

Another thing: Instead of pressing clutch lever when power is not needed, a better way would be to switch off engine and get it in neutral and roll down as far as it would take.
Please note that this is however, not a safe way of riding downhill as there's not engine braking to control the acceleration downhill i.e. good braking would be required then.

Can you explain me ONE scenario when power is not needed even while going downhill? Do you intend to say that gravity would do it's job naturally? (Not counting the perils of a switched off engine here.)

**Samarth 619** · 04-30-2015, 12:46 AM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Can you explain me ONE scenario when power is not needed even while going downhill? Do you intend to say that gravity would do it's job naturally? (Not counting the perils of a switched off engine here.)

Scenario? Well.... Very often we see, when the traffic is not around you, and there's a down slope ahead, you can use gravity by putting it in neutral and letting it go down. When I go down Pushkar's hills, I have seen people doing it.

In an electric bike, I believe that this force can be used to charge the battery too.

Of course, perils are there, seeing how the speed is not controlled anymore by engine motion. And I don't support this.

**John P Daniel** · 04-30-2015, 07:27 AM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Doesn't the bike idle in a rich mixture? If that be the case, wouldn't all the efforts put to run in neutral consume same petrol as running with engine braking? Unless the slope is really long, I don't think there would be much difference in petrol consumption in both methods. Will be different in fi bikes but with carb, I think the effort is pretty much useless.

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**shrirang Shivankar** · 04-30-2015, 08:15 AM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by John P Daniel View Post

Doesn't the bike idle in a rich mixture? If that be the case, wouldn't all the efforts put to run in neutral consume same petrol as running with engine braking? Unless the slope is really long, I don't think there would be much difference in petrol consumption in both methods. Will be different in fi bikes but with carb, I think the effort is pretty much useless.

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You have taken the exact point. The rich mixture is when throttle is closed, and I was talking about rich mixture at 4000 rpm vs rich mixture at 1000 rpm.
When acceleration is not required, throttle is closed and if the clutch is engaged, we have to supply rich mixture at high rpms, while if clutch is disengaged, we supply fuel at idling rpm only.
Whenever I use technical things, the conversation goes other way.

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**John P Daniel** · 05-06-2015, 10:04 PM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by shrirang Shivankar View Post

You have taken the exact point. The rich mixture is when throttle is closed, and I was talking about rich mixture at 4000 rpm vs rich mixture at 1000 rpm.
When acceleration is not required, throttle is closed and if the clutch is engaged, we have to supply rich mixture at high rpms, while if clutch is disengaged, we supply fuel at idling rpm only.
Whenever I use technical things, the conversation goes other way.

Sent from my Z10 using xBhp Connect mobile app

Actually, at 4000k rpm, the carb supplies lean mixture as it is the cruising range. AFAIK, when we release the throttle and use engine braking, only idle jet will be activated. So there won't be much fuel wastage unless carb is defective. Moreover, if the engine does run over rich, it should leave its signs like darker spark plugs, carbon deposit in silencer, etc. So IMO, it's better to use engine braking rather than coast downhill at neutral.

**Freak inExile** · 05-07-2015, 02:46 AM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by shrirang Shivankar View Post

You have taken the exact point. The rich mixture is when throttle is closed, and I was talking about rich mixture at 4000 rpm vs rich mixture at 1000 rpm.
When acceleration is not required, throttle is closed and if the clutch is engaged, we have to supply rich mixture at high rpms, while if clutch is disengaged, we supply fuel at idling rpm only.

Yes, rate at which idle-mixture is sucked in @4,000 RPM will be higher compared to say @1,500 RPM.

Assuming mileage takes center-stage, so when you pull clutch while riding downhill, transmission is gaining RPMs (Bike gaining momentum) and engine is falling towards idle-rpm.

At the bottom of the hill bike is doing say 50 km/hr and engine is @1,500 RPM, all this while clutch plates(multiple-sets) were given a breather space of only 2-3 mm for rotating.

What's your method of re-engaging transmission with the clutch(engine) here?
Do you shift up, rev-match and then release clutch?

Engine-Braking is like negative-feedback, often good to keep motorcycle in control; brakes will have to do all the work otherwise if necessary.

Originally posted by shrirang Shivankar View Post

Whenever I use technical things, the conversation goes other way.

And it's not the fault of technical stuff itself, isn't it?

Originally posted by John P Daniel View Post

... Moreover, if the engine does run over rich, it should leave its signs like darker spark plugs, carbon deposit in silencer, etc...

That reminds me of spark-plug-chopping and the brick-red colour on the plug-insulator.

**shrirang Shivankar** · 05-07-2015, 07:41 AM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by John P Daniel View Post

Actually, at 4000k rpm, the carb supplies lean mixture as it is the cruising range. AFAIK, when we release the throttle and use engine braking, only idle jet will be activated. So there won't be much fuel wastage unless carb is defectivel.

The cruising range you defined is somewhat wrong, its cruising only iff the throttle is open.

Originally posted by Freak inExile View Post

Yes, rate at which idle-mixture is sucked in @4,000 RPM will be higher compared to say @1,500 RPM.

Assuming mileage takes center-stage, so when you pull clutch while riding downhill, transmission is gaining RPMs (Bike gaining momentum) and engine is falling towards idle-rpm.

At the bottom of the hill bike is doing say 50 km/hr and engine is @1,500 RPM, all this while clutch plates(multiple-sets) were given a breather space of only 2-3 mm for rotating.

What's your method of re-engaging transmission with the clutch(engine) here?
Do you shift up, rev-match and then release clutch?

Yes rev matching followed by engaging clutch to avoid excessive wear of clutch plates.

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**Freak inExile** · 05-07-2015, 12:03 PM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by shrirang Shivankar View Post

The cruising range you defined is somewhat wrong, its cruising only iff the throttle is open.

Yes, cruising speed comes around peak-torque-RPM.
Yes, riding with throttle closed even at peak-torque-RPM is not cruising but engine-braking.

Originally posted by shrirang Shivankar View Post

Yes rev matching followed by engaging clutch to avoid excessive wear of clutch plates.

That's alright then, you also lose additional braking(some handling) on the way to saving fuel. Worst of all, you'll be less equipped to handle surprises on Indian roads.

Like they say : "Hope you know what you're doing".

**sudip_talukdar** · 11-26-2015, 09:25 AM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Bro, I own a honda unicorn 2008 model...
The problem with my bike that the speedo meter needle is shaking everytime when it catching speed.. Even though in a steady speed it keeps on shaking on that very speed. I asked the service centre guy about it.. He said that the whole console need to be changed.. Do you have any idea how to repair it with out changing?

**Parvez Ghadialy** · 11-30-2015, 02:37 PM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by srpsinu View Post

Excellent & informative Post. Keep it up

Seconded...

**Samarth 619** · 11-30-2016, 12:41 AM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by sudip_talukdar View Post

Bro, I own a honda unicorn 2008 model...
The problem with my bike that the speedo meter needle is shaking everytime when it catching speed.. Even though in a steady speed it keeps on shaking on that very speed. I asked the service centre guy about it.. He said that the whole console need to be changed.. Do you have any idea how to repair it with out changing?

Please refer to the owner's manual here:- https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...zler.anjan.pdf

Try getting a better manual too, its called Service/ Workshop manual.

Secondly, you could consider this book for the long term:- https://www.flipkart.com/abc-servici...md7sydttjutexw

Maybe someone from the Unicorn ownership thread can help...

**sudip_talukdar** · 12-26-2016, 07:42 PM

Re: INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

Originally posted by samarth 619 View Post

please refer to the owner's manual here:- https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...zler.anjan.pdf

try getting a better manual too, its called service/ workshop manual.

Secondly, you could consider this book for the long term:- https://www.flipkart.com/abc-servici...md7sydttjutexw

maybe someone from the unicorn ownership thread can help...

thanks dude!
Got the piston changed. Costs 1800 only!
And it is running swiftly!

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INFO: A Guide On Technical Jargons

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