Nobody is talking about discontinuing the production of these bikes. I am talking about something else. Read through the article, see the posts thereon that I have made. We do not even have a genuine good multi or twin 250 with decent specs. As I have said, the Comet was a decent deal. But spares have become a nightmare. And it needs a little bit more power, 5bhp would do it.

Hasn't the graduality of change started??? Options are available today, all we need is big bucks.
200,220s are being sold here is masses bcoz of a simple reason -its affordable . I do not see any other reason.
If R1 was available at 100k bucks, then it wudn't be a surprsise to me seeing a doodhwala delivering cans on his mighty R1.

I accept the fact that legally R1 is available for double the cost as in the US, but for the mass bikers in India (uncounting commuters) , will the R1 at Rs.500,000 be affordable??? Well I dont think so!..

Why are we treating 200,220,100,150 etc. as a nauseatic junk food? Splendor was once upon a time the largest exporting bike to south America.
And yes these low powered bikes are also available as options in developed nations also, in the commuting segment, so as in India.

My point is- We guys are complaining about the limited options available, but as said by ken , time has to ripen.

We say its not sensible to buy and ride SBK on these dangerous roads, tell me this ,is the suspension system of porsche made for these roads? But ppol are riding it and the company has balls to launch it in India officially.

The below point by rx100 makes sense to me as an average Indian Biker. But still I too support and welcome the set of options for SBKs, and I may be a potential buyer for one of them.

I had to go look up what 'incorrigible' meant! See, so its just the vocabulary that is distancing my skills of writing from yours ! Now if I could just find out what 'corrigible' meant!



Exactly! If the ones at home can't make it, then I've every right to get the ones made by others without having to pay a 'duty' ' penalty' and the lot!

Good. Your membership ID is 4x9633400 and your task will be to eliminate the use of alkaline batteries in TV remotes and replace them with NiCd ones! That way there'll be no Ni or Cd left to put in bikes, also we'll be doing a favour for the huge population of the country who want to keep switching between umpteen reality shows on million TV channels.

Bro, be honest. Don't you feel like the cruel ol' man from the SAW movies when you wring the throttle all the way up to feel the surge and listen to the exhaust note, mercilessly squeezing the engine for all its worth?

We need bigger engines, that can excite from the word 'Go'..thats is all my need.

Period.

My Opnion

Old Fox Sir,
very rightly said sirji.
My Opinion now.

Power in wrong, novice hands can be dangerous.
Now there is obviously need for power bikes. But that doesn't mean that there should not be bikes like P220, P200 or R15. I mean, those who dream to own a powerful bike & who enjoys biking in all sense should not be deprived off from having the addiction of riding a bike just because right now he cannot afford to own a sports / super bike. For majority of the people, like me, who some day wishes to own an R6 or R1, riding a far less powerful bikes like P220 is like 1 step closer to the dream. There should be gradual transition. Just imagine, an 18 yr old lad who all his life has gone everywhere in 4 wheeler, on his B Day his rich dad gifts him an R1. Bingo! he gotta impress his female friends, gotta scare all fellow riders on street & god forbids, something terrible happens & we all bikers are in the prime time of News TV channels.
I am also in favour of Big, Powerful bikes being manufactured by our Indian Cos & Foreign too at reasonable price. But there should also be bikes like Pulsars, Karizma, Fazers & R15s for those who wants to get a glimpse of "superbiking". And We should also remember that majority of Indian Bikers are just commuters. They cannot think of going out of city or places on bikes. Bikes for them is just another mode of transportation.
So my point is there should always be two end of spectrum. Bikes like P220, P200, FZ16, ZMA, R15 & then ofcourse BIG bikes like R1, R6, CBR, GSXR.
For me my P220 is a "SUPER BIKE" !

What bothers me even more than the dearth of real motorcycles is the fact that we are being prevented from owning them due to incompetence of a lame babu who probably lazes his days behind a desk and has probably NEVER ridden a two wheeler and who believes that 'India is still not ready', his other argument being that the indigenous manufacturers will suffer. If the liberalization laws of 1991 and their fruits are anything to go by, the infusion of new bikes into the market will only promote a more open market, resulting in greater choices for the consumer,as ken da aptly puts it. The days of Fabian socialism are behind us, so why are we abiding by these residual laws of the colonial era? If not for the progress, do it for the money! Is the Government blind to all the moolah thats at offer here? Quite inexplicable.

The age old argument about Indian manufacturers losing out to the Biggies holds no water. Afterall, how long can the government shield them? They should now have garnered sufficient resources to compete with the best in the world. HH is supposedly the largest manufacturer of motorcycles in the world,so are we all about volumes?? If Bajaj can contemplate taking over Triumph, surely they are not cash strapped? If anything, more choices for the consumer will possibly force our moped makers out of their slumber and get them doing some real RND, instead of splurging money on lame ass Bollywood actors for promotion. Competition never hurt anybody, except the lazy asses. Besides, even if they still feel threatened, the Govt can atleast rationlise the segment above 30 BHP(for instance), so that we dont have to pay insane amounts for segments which our Indian manufacturers dare not venture into.

And does any body actually believe the road rage argument? I mean, come on! A stray animal ambling in your path is a real possibility in a lot of places in the world. The more discerning rider will always make allowances for such contingencies and ride accordingly. There will always be people who'll ram into stationary lorries, big bore or no big bore. What I do not understand is that if cars, with all their bulk and cost can be allowed, why is their a stigma with motorcycles? If we can have BMWs and Audi adding to the chaotic traffic, how much more congestion can a two wheeler add??
Its high time the redtape ridden bureaucracy shakes off the dirt and does something for the motorcyclist in this country. I agree with theslayer. No one wants a NiCd motorcycle.

Totally agree. But then again, we've still got people killing each other in accords, sx4s, balenos, hell even BMWs! And people crashing their LP640s(go to team bhp, there's an entire thread dedicated to it!!!) Some things never change. And there is absolutely no way to change that other than education, and stepped licensing!

Who decides? (ala nevermore, if anyone on this forum listens to that stuff!)

So? You ride carefully! Everyone knows of the dangers in riding ANY vehicle in India. Do you quake in your boots everytime you take out your bike? You should. It's bloody dangerous. But you still take out your bike no? Even a rabid pulsar/zma rider at 60 is a lethal weapon! Don't forget that. Bigger bikes might just help in causing accidents at higher speeds, but those idiots would have crashed anyway. It's called life. Shit happens.


What world are you from buddy? Ever been on the delhi-ambala-chandigarh highway? Even trucks move at 90+ speeds. On the jaipur highway you'll see the average idiot on a scorpio or a qualis belting the cage for all it's worth. Please don't bring up the extremely outdated speed limits on the roads of this country. Those ROADS are all designed to be ridden at speeds of 160+. Note the embankments and the banking angle of the roads in a turn on the new highways. I would seriously like to be able to overtake everyone, since there lies safety. I might cruise at 100-120, but would not want my bike gasping for breath!

If you're out on the delhi gurgaon expressway, most cars are doing 100+. Bikes arent allowed. Why? Because they just arent fast enough. So bikers have to theoretically still use the shitty roads. Bikes still go on it. But I get scared just looking at them when I overtake them at 120+ on my bro's baleno. If I have a big enough bike, I'll probably go at 10kmph faster than the rest of the traffic just to prevent being squashed under a cager.

I reiterate - its called the power/freedom of choice. Something we don't have here.

So don't get all high and mighty and join the moral police - it's business. And the government makes a big buck out of all this control. We have the roads, at least wherever the people who'll be able to afford these bikes live. So thats a stupid argument.

Next.

You are incorrigible @theslayer. Loved it ^.

Exactly! Not the direction you'd expect members of the country's foremost biking club to take..Whats wrong with some of you guys?

Exactly! Point well made!

Here we are waiting for the biggies to bring down affordable 600s and 250s and some of us have the nerve to re-iterate the "fact" that the roads aren't ready for them.

I for one, pee in my pants everytime some dick in white with a mike in hand and a jobless audience of a thousand, raises the question of higher capacity motorcycles ( read P220, Zma in their perspective) being unsafe on our roads, post an accident involving reckless riders stunting/dragging on public roads.

This isn't the time to analyse whether we're ready for the bikes. Dude don't forget we've limited resources of oil! If things keep going at this rate, the only superbike I'd be riding would have to powered by 60 Lithium Nickel Cadmium whatever batteries that I'd have to tow along on a trailer behind me.

I don't want that. I want a well engineered, brute power motorcycle that I'd be able to afford/maintain/feed after working and saving up for not more than 2 years.

First of all this is very good topic!

And believe me,higher officials will be reading this.

From my pov there is say X type of biker.

This biker buys a bike or his dad buys him one. He can now pose around on it and ride it till he passes the education.This bike can be anything from the Poser diaries to Rossiter's diary. Then when the job and family thing sets in, this biker easily puts the bike on back stage and gets a car. That's it! it is the end of this biker. I think a majority of bikers fall in this category in India.

Try selling big bikes to such people!

And then there are like u and me types. Who have sworn to buy a big bike come what may! But for what? posing? ascertaining their status on society?
NO!

Because i[and us] enjoy that feeling when the tacho needle jumps up and the road blurs, a deeeep howl to accompany.That feeling when you really scrape your knee in the corner.That feeling when u realize that the only thing u have with u on the far away roads is your bike.The feeling at cold dawn when u approach a city waking up, small twinkling city lights and u cozily ensconced in your gear! Heaven!

Sadly these riders don't make profit for the companies. But the former ones do! That is enough to sum up my point. I will add more later.

With many many thanks to Ken da!

Ahh rich kids killing themselves with other stuff , right ... and when they got a powerfull machine in their hands they kill others too ... still ok with it?

so instead of 5 people killing 25 others , you'd prefer 100 killing 475 (assuming only 5 out of 100 who bought these bikes will ride sanely)

more options ? agreed , but should not be within the reach of everyone , only a few.

In UK , i drove on 2 lane higways (which they call dual carriage ways) at 60-70 mph (legal speeds) without a sweat because I knew nobody will come in my lane on any corner .And mind it there are atleast 10 corners for every mile in scotland.In india I'd expect atleast 10 superbikers (or fast running bikes) in my lane in a kilometers stretch.

And about the overtaking issue , if you want to be safe while overtaking assume you got a 100cc bike , ride as per that margin .That 17-20 ps will give to a lot of safe margin.If you wish to max out on a bike at 110+ and still want more speed for overtaking then you should also have this in mind that we have 80kmph speed limit on all national highways for 4 wheelers and 40/50 kmph for 2 wheelers.So you are already way over the limit.

@Old Fox - Resounding Applause! I completely agree, in fact thats exactly the point I was going to make. In city conditions, sometimes even a ZMA can be pretty dangerous on high speed overtakes. You NEED that extra power on tap to just zoom past the offending vehicle in front of you and settle back into cruising speed. Trust me, when you're riding at 110 km/h with your bike maxed out, and suddenly need to get out of a tight situation, you're stuck in a BAD place because there's just no more power. In fact, post 100, in almost all bikes in India, there's very little power left.

Who the hell wants top speed? I'd want shitloads of power in the mid range to be able to just call on it whenever possible.

It's like this - you try and get a massive savings account, not because you need that money ALL the time, it's because you might need it in a lot of unforseen situations.

As someone pointed out - rich kids find all kinds of creative ways to kill themselves. Correction, stupid kids find all kinds of creative ways to kill themselves. The smart ones get richer, the stupid ones poorer, and hopefully dead!

This entire "don't sell high performance machines because people will misuse them" attitude IMO is absolute BS! It's the most redundant, unprogressive thought ever. Instead of focussing on education the people, we're just limiting them becuase we fear they wont be able to handle all that power. Who the fvck are you to make that decision? The entire point of living is to either learn from your own mistakes, or other people's, or die trying. I think we as a nation are mature enough to know what's gonna kill us.

@Leon - ever checked out the biking scene in US? It's way more dangerous than India, because

1. Almost everyone has a bloody powerful machine
2. Vehicles are cheap
3. People are idiots
4. Low density of bikes, so most cagers don't even look for bikes, and frequently swerve/crash/reverse into them!
5. People are idiots
6. Super fast expressways

But STILL, people have the CHOICE! Despite the fact that sales are very minimal, and the price of the bikes are less than half of what it is in India, you'll MOSTLY find big capacity bikes there because people HAVE ALWAYS HAD A CHOICE and they've chosen the BIG BIKES!!!!!

Why is everyone so hell bent on mollycoddling India? Open the damn markets, hell if Yamaha can whip out the R1 and recoup at what seemed like the end of their Indian tenure, then surely Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki can bring out their big machines?

Hell, has everyone forgotten that we can now buy LEGAL DUCATIS??

What is it with everyone?

I might not want to tour, but I'd definitely love to plonk down my hard earned money on a good BIKE, and not on a car because I have no options. I'd also like to do it legally, with comprehensive insurance, warranty, and official support. Not spend shitloads of money on an illegal import, no official support, no warranty, no insurance, and still pay DOUBLE of what the rest of the world pays.

Hell we should be getting a discount! We ARE a third world country arent we?

@OF: Some people just have inherent sense and sensibility and see and understand the perspective. A lot others have just pride and prejudices. You seem to fit the former category. How I liked your simple idea of getting in the right analogy of overtaking a roadways speeding trigger-happy moron driving a rolling coffin can turn your trip into a disaster for lack of a few Bhp coz HH (or someone else) does not think that we "need" those extra Bhp on "bad" roads!

@dcs:

Dear Ken, Lets not forget that it took almost 20years for the 4wheelers to pick up from way back in 1980-82 to what the scenario is Today....so owing to the Fact that we, You and Me Live in a country that has all sorts of Hurdles for the Biking Community,....lets keep the Flame within and lets wait for the time being, else if I possessed any magical powers, then I would have whirled my Magic wand 5 times over the head, would have Hit Desi on his @$$ 3times and would have TURNED the dreams to reality, but Alas...am just a simple Human, with absolutely no Magical Powers, so Boss.... Lets give it some more time....!

P.S: Desi...Hope u r listening

Its about choice. The throttle is as much an important control as are the brakes

Me too. I do believe that things will change. I really hope they do. For the sake of everyone out here and out there as well. Question is when! Two years, ten, twenty five. Several European countries had developed 1000 cc multicylinder bikes in the 1930s capable of going at 150. That was nearly a century ago. Lets see when our turn comes.