even a biryani isn't sufficient for this kind of .. debate.

@grey and Niks: Brothers, chill. Whats the point in fighting over something for which we have a common passion. Shake hands and rub your helmets

I wasn't really fighting. I was, uh, debating

*Hai Five*?

Before the server-crash, there was a post by someone about the strict regulations about obtaining a license in France. I wish I could find it. A comparison between norms there with those here will probably bring more perspective to the debate.

I am sure everyone here wants a choice (an affordable one that is). I for one want it. However, a word of caution is a must in terms infrastructure and (biking) education. Both have to be adequate. More important question is, should the choice come first expecting that, perhaps after little chaos, the natural evolution forces us to be take measures in disciplining people? Or should the discipline come first and power should follow later? Or can there be a middle path to it. I wish to tread the line

Finally one word about the NiCd thing . Love it or hate it. The economics and the resources are already sweeping the four wheeler technology with alternate means of energy. The transformation is inevitable. The technology may come much later for the two wheelers, when the innovation makes it compact, efficient and hence more powerful.

And in the context of what next, I for one believe that the Indian companies will have an advantage if they invest some chunk in the alternate means of energy. Make a collaborative or indigenous effort but make it happen. Put a good number of tech guys there. As far as petrol fuelled higher capacity bikes are concerned, put your MBA guys there. Partner with biggies and get the bikes at cheaper prices. Package them with more attractive offers like 2 training days at a track. Make it an experience. Build a brand image as a responsible company. I know people shying away from pulsar and choosing passion plus just because their parents think that Pulsars (Bajaj bikes) are accident prone. No flame intended. I agree to it that Pulsar/Bajaj has got nothing to do with it. A good number of people fail to make a smooth transition from a 100cc bikes drum brake to higher ones with disc brake getting an impression that the later are not safe.

very good points raised here and the grey cells being overclocked

well we need some nakeds prefferably from 250cc-600cc here starting from 30 bhp .. bikes like the R1 arent usable by me (even if i had the $$$ )


Point :1
the roads are a big surprise.. mostly nasty. going at 110+ on some expressway and *bang* some damned cut in the road or some non engineered hump sends a shockwave and bends your rims enough to make it critical (this happened to me)

but yes roads we frequent we do get familiar with it and thus roads can be tamed with your experience on it.


Point 2:
but when considering the others on the road
i've had numerous close escapes with other people ramming into me, a bike zipping past me from the left when im taking a left turn... or changing lanes..or whatever.

now once it was just a zma.. going at just 50-60 kmph.. but IF he had hit me .. my bike would have been tossed (so his and him) i would have got out uninjured (thanks to riding gear) but my bike would have been screwed. now its obv that he'll ride even faster on a bigger bike, then would my protection be sufficient ? probably not. what to do of these people who ride like heroes and simply ignoring that there are others on the road too ?

my concern is not about the people who discussed or read this topic, its about the other fools who might buy a litre class bike and then ram it into someone,

even though the amount of deaths recorded due to bikes/related to it are less than cars or trucks, bikes are one of the most rashly driven vehicles here. you can see most of the city heroes cutting the traffic at breakneck speeds (of course without a helmet if possible) with bikes.. you cant do that on a car or truck.. bikes being small and nimble are far easier to navigate. and hence that zigzag path is possible. many fall bad on their 150's or zma's .. many make innocent to fall along with them.. i dont want to see the situation with the bigger bikes which can easily get out of control..

now to have more "responsible" people riding the bigger bikes, there should be seriously some riding test(how you ride observation and analysis) before you can buy a bigger 50hp + bike so as to see whether you can handle it properly even. if not, compulsory training so as to you dont accidentally go flying. unfortunately this is probably impossible... because this factor was supposed to be taken care of through the driving license test (what ?)

the driving license here is just a piece of card or booklet to evade fines..., I know many of my college mates here who have a license to drive a CAR but they never ever have driven one , nor have any idea about it. and this isnt going to be stringent in near future as well. these licenses actually permit a fool to commit roadkills.. instead of preventing these fools from ever riding a bike (or any other means of transport)

what to do about these people ? I dont mind you or anyone here buying a 600cc or a litre class bike... but i don't want to get run over by some "dhoom" bike when im strolling on the roadside having chai and a cigarette peacefully ?


Point3:
Owning such bikes is also a pain, esp the aftersales service and spares division. we need more specialists ready before the sales of such bikes commence... otherwise most of us will end up with a bike that just is good for a decoration piece. we do have some centres where SBK;s can get serviced but its simply not enough yet ! (akhil might comment on the sbk service situation in bangalore)


Point4:
its now or never as well,
the petrol is no longer rs 30-35 a litre which was easygoing on the pocket... many of us have dreams of getting these bikes but these only get distant as the rising petrol prices certainly .... dent these dreams. if we cant have these bikes now , then probably never. most of us here arent sons of industrialists who can just flick a finger and order a SBK, we have to get loans for our 150cc bikes even. and also with the recession setting in it will be even harder to manage a 600-1000cc bike with our incomes.

@rahul bajaj-III , what are u doing here man??

well our prays are getting to be answered. As the start, the Ducati monster 696 is available in India for 9.6L ex show room..
This is a bike on which we can do 600 Kms in a day without fatigue'

Hope the Japs too follow this segment

are u sure? i thot this was for 15 L ex showroom , and the range goes upto 1098 s which comes for 48 ex showroom ....

Prabhu saar.
The CB is here too..!!
Im sure the CB is a very good alternative albeit with more displacement than one would want

Here's hoping that we get swamped by 600's of all categories soon

prabhu : see these -

Italian 2-wheeler Ducati forays into India - The Financial Express

domain-b.com : Ducati comes riding to India at prices ranging from Rs14 lakh to Rs48 lakh

@maverick : yes , a CB sounds more enticing than the ducati

well may be the show room can confirm the news..

well thats my point

Good write Mr Ken.

Some points (Personal Opinion, so no offense please )

But don't you think that Bajaj or HH or Yamaha guys dont know this ?? What they do here is "Business". If launching a 300cc+ bike will give them increase in buisness they will surely do that i guess. Can someone tell how many bikers are there in this country ? I am not asking the count of the people who own a bike. People from where i live still buys bike of 100-125cc, and you know why because they need bike for some reason and obviously that reason is not touring, love or their dreams. Owning a bigger capacity bike just dont end there, we have to maintain that, we need petrol to drive it. And you know very well how many times a year theres a strike in this country because of the petrol price goes up. Why do they call a strike ?? Yes, becuase money is a problem. There are some SBKs available in India, but how many people own those ?

Then as mentioned above roads are some obstacle, we normally dont ride on the highways always, most of us are city driver. We just cant move around on a SBK in the city.

Last but not the least, people feel safer in cars but not in bikes, and everyone knows the reason.My mom still worries when i ride to office in my bike. May be these are enough reason that Yamaha and all those companies are not bringing big machines. We need to grow up first.


Sorry for bad english

Hello MrPsycho. Good response.

You know what... when I read your post and I saw the part "Strikes", you know what I did next instinctively... I looked at your avatar to figure out which part of the country you come from. And I was right. You know... I have lived in various parts of the country and of that a huge part in Bengal, notably Calcutta, born in Park Circus, Maryland Nursing Home...

You talking about money. You are absolutely right. But when you say the "number of times the country going into a strike" because of the rise in petrol prices... you know, the use of the word country is not totally apt here. It is West Bengal and at times Kerala. Staying New Delhi, Bombay, Bangalore, we have almost never seen a "Strike" for petrol prices going up and definitely not as often as one sees in Bengal. Do not take it badly, but Bengal sees more strikes than one gets to see in Italy and France. Bengal calls a National Bandh and the only thing that goes into a Bandh is Bengal. In my past 10 years in Delhi, I do not recall a single Bandh or strike. There have been striking lawyers, doctors, Bus Associations to oppose introduction of Gas kits in buses but not for rise of petrol prices.

Which is probably the reason why Bengal has so less industrial growth today, which is probably the reason Bengal has the lowest number of Sbks. The country, outside of Bengal used to see sales of close to a thousand Sbks every year in the country (unofficial approx figures) and none of them in Bengal. Only goes to say that there is a market. Probably not in Bengal. All I am saying is that if the pricing were right, with correct choice of vehicles, and the correct measures taken, CKD or total construction of a proper choice of power/torque development in a motorcycle, the market that exists, can be used to do "Better" business.

There has been a move from CD100 to DTS Fi220. The move is apparent in a LOT of bikers across the country. Even I am aware of what a biker is. And I am also aware of what he is looking for. Maybe not everywhere. But just look at the number of R15 bikes been sold. It is by no means a cheap acquisition for a beginner's bike. Nor is it for going just from point A to point B. It is a "Biker's" bike. And this is NOT for fuel efficiency. It has clearly dug into the sales of Zma and P220. Hence the market exists. Probably not in Bengal with all the Bandhs and strikes. But in the rest of the country, it does exist.

Again, I repeat, please do not take this personally.