It is coming.

Got my ZMA about 2 months ago. This was my first bike ever. Heard people say its powerful, its big bike. What I felt was its small and undepowered. This coming from a person who doesn't like speeding. I was wondering how people could classify ZMA as big. It then struck me that most of those people probably have been using 100, 150 cc class.

Since this was my first, I never felt it was big or powerful. I personally have been driving cars all my life and still do. I got the ZMA specially to commute to office that carries me over a long stretch of highway. Good handling, though I found the engine quiet unrefined (this could be because I was only used to multi cylinder cars) and underpowered although very ecomomical (blame it on my car). You see, I don't directly relate power to speed as some seems to do so. And I have not even crossed 100kmph. My usual speed is about 65 KMPH in the highway. Can I push more. Of course, but 60-65 is the speed at which I found the sweetest spot in the engine, just buzzing easily. I wish the engine was more powerful so I could do at least 80 with the same ease. This is how I relate to power.

I've heard mentioned 200-220 cc class as a beast, a killer machine etc. Apart from some brilliant argument provided in this post by some, I think Its the attitute in us that will also define "What next?"

we all xbhpians should really go and bang up this HH, Bajaj and yamaha heads and tell

Hey ken sir nice write up,

i feel at times we should go and meet this people research, marketing team and tell them what we want, shake their brains up and then they can really understand it, everyone of us cant afford 400+cc bikes today as our govt rules dont allow anything below 800cc and for other big bikes we have to pay a heavy cost, so if they understand and manufacture what we are looking in india, there can be a huge and potential market in india as those import taxes and all can be cut off.

I totally agree that there is a substantial market for Indian Company manufactured 400CC multicylinder two wheelers priced between 2.5L - 3L. It is a bold and difficult step, financially speaking. But one needs the vision to overcome this and take the step since this WILL pay off in the long run. Which is why I am talking about vision. In the future, there will be spin offs.

I totally disagree with you ken on the pricing.
An indian company, completely manufacturing a 400cc multicylinder(consider twin, may be v twin or parellel twin) at 2.5 to 3l ??

Thats crazy.

....++1.

Also, there is accute need of increase in outright cubic capacity, rather than the increase in number of cylinders, multi valves, high compressions, technologically advanced gadgets, etc.

A 9.5:1 compression single cylinder, moderately short-stroke, 300-450 cc aircooled six-speed engine would be the most suitable and would satisfy divergent needs (sports, sports-tourer, tourer, city commuter, weekend fun bike) of our society.

Though more is never enough.

Right said sir, lets take out of total indias population, if a mere 10% people also go for this 400 cc bikes still it taps a huge market for any person who can manufacture 400+ cc bikes, as we know today a 225 cc karizma costs today 1 lakh than i feel for a 400cc or more 2 lakhs to 3 lakhs is a decent cost and more and more people will go for those bikes, if not for daily commuting, still for weekend drives and it will be a new chapter for generations to come after us, where they stand and say xbhp changed the biking future of india, where it will be wrote in history from 1977 to 2009 -upgraded from 100 cc to 225 cc while 2009 to 2019 it would be like 225 to 450 cc upgrades ( big revolution year of 2 wheeler industry in india) and if our indian industry can really do it the entire two wheeler industry will look us with respect, if we can bring out a 600 cc nano car for a price tag half of maruti 800 then i think this 400+ cc concept is also possible.

You can totally disagree. That is what makes us so interesting. And I do not see what is so crazy about it. You have the 1350CC 4 cylinder 197 Bhp, DOHC, 16V machine, twin spar frame, available brand new for less than 6L abroad, why can't you have a 3L 400CC locally manufactured twin?

How short will you make your stroke for a single mill 400CC? Your initial Torque curve will be very flat for the first 4K rpm! Correct me if I am wrong, you are the Technician.

hmmmm.... just wanted to point out 1 lttle problem with your arguement. India's population is 1 billion+. So 10% of that would be 100 million.

As per wikipedia, ever since it's launch in 1984, a total of 2.5 million maruti 800s have been sold till now.

Now you talk about 100 million people out about 500 million (since about 50% are below poverty line) buying a bike that seats 2 people (as against 4 in 800) and yet costs more.

Now if 100 million people do buy this bike, assuming a price of 3 lakh that would mean earnings of 3 lakh *100 million = Rs. 30*10^12 or Rs 30 trillion. If we convert it into dollar terms @ Rs 50/USD, it works out as 0.6 Trillion USD.
In 2008, the GDP of India was about USD 1.2 Trillion.
So what you are saying is that if a company launches such a bike, it can reach a turnover that is almost half of India's GDP.

Let's take a product that just costs about Rs. 3, that is a newspaper called dainik jagaran which, again according to wikipedia is the largest selling newspaper in India with 55.7 million readers. So a product that costs 0.001 % of what the bike is gonna costs is only bought by 50% of the people that you say are gonna buy the bike.

With this example I think I can safely say that were such a bike to be launched, less than 10% of India's population will buy it. In fact I would stick out my head and say that it will not even sell 10% of the sales achieved by maruti 800, ie 0.25 million.

Anyway, I did not mean to rain on your parade, just wanted to temper your hopes with a pinch of reality.

^^^ my thought explained in better way. Also high Excise, ride safety + pollution issues etc would come into play for the manufacturer, including R&D.

Do you think companies like Yamaha, Honda & Suzuki will have to recheck the ride safety + pollution issues while launching a 250CC or a 600CC bike ???

What do you think, ARAI will homologate bikes that do not conform to our norms?

Guys, would any of these imports not match "your" pollution Standards? Market is the bigger problem, not pollution...

1. Even the 2007 model of 600's match Euro III standards...!
2. The R1 & CBR1000R have not been "tuned" or "detuned" for India. Well, obviously they match pollution standards, right?
3. If a 500cc Royal Enfield can survive Pollution Norms, I'm sure almost anything imported can too!

I stress that market is the practical problem. And also, diversity of needs, because someone needs FZ6, others need R6 ... We can't agree on any one such bike!

yep they have to, FZ 16 exhaust sound is brought down drastically to meet traffic decibel norms! check out ownership thread for new racing kits, the louder exhaust is not street legal, also mentioned in Zigwheels review, so as per engine capacity sound also matters, the point is market, a high end bike needs better facility with no guaranteed sales, how many of the ppl in india will actually buy a bike equivalent to R1 or FZ 1 here? as per the analysis earlier not even 10%. Pointing part of my post was easier then looking that concept above? the problem we have here is the most ppl on the board look at desires though only few can practically implement it, believe if ppl on this board has 12lakh bucks to buy a hayabusa or intruder, most of em will go for a car in real life scenario, though how much we ask or question abt whats next and all, passionate are only few.

you got me wrong. my post was meant to be taken in a sarcastic manner. What i meant to say was that even a newspaper worth Rs. 3 is not bought by 10% of India's population. so there's no hope of any kind of product in India that costs in lakhs being bought by 10% of India's populations.
If anyone launches such a product he will end up becoming one of the richest men in the world.
A bike that costs 3 lakh would probably have sales in thousands. I would probably be looking at revenues in double digit crores. If anyone can manage to sell even 20,000 such bikes, they would earn a revenue of Rs 600 Crores.

I don't think there's any product in india in the category of durables, that has ever achieved a sales volume of 100 million (about 10% of India's population). I was just trying to say in my previous post that the figure thrown at us by shrinathrao was a touch unrealistic.