Joe your right. Breaking the 2-min barrier was considered big feat only when I saw the under bones race here untill I saw them race here. The Group-B R15 which is from the same Asean racing betters them in the rest of the globe, which it has done here with the right approach by the right people that hardly surprised me. The current level tuned R15 on a Moto GP 125cc chassis I am sure you guy's would be in the 1:55 ~56 bracket. Known Bala Vijay for a long time, I was praying for a rain free Track event for Sidvin as I wanted Moto-Rev to break the existing lap record. What ever said & done the European's still have an edge when it come to Motor Sports. I do agree with most of things you say except, you don't know much about the India before Y2K.

Those days We had to wait long beg & plead after paying full cash to someone to procure Spares from Singapore & Malaysia. That too it was super duper expensive then. This ultimately left to the Death of Group B's. So The Group C's were all done using only from Parts available from India. Hail the Fury for the Wheels & Brakes. Group A simply forget it. As long as The TZ 350's came we had Fancy parts for our RD's ... That too vanished. It was so bad to get Tyres at one point, MRF Introduced Slicks & todays Zappers then for racing, that could be bought only through great hardship. Infact, I had run them those days on my Road RD's .. Hand cut Slicks a lot of Fun. For one exclusive section they made a special super soft Tyre for Raju .. He did awesome time from them only to last 8 Laps. They were even send to Japan & UK for Training & Tuning Courses by their sponsors. Even Today both the brothers are still involved with Tyre testing for MRF. Further the races use to be more of a big one time show in Feb. Not many rounds. No small Fee Track days for Sundays. Exclusive use of Track cost 15 Thousand those days.

With Departure of MRF, Sheriff Dyan, Sad Demise of Centigo Sundaram - TVS racing the race's took a back step. Joel if I say the amount these guys were paid you heart will stop right now. The death of the RD class was due to Centigo Sundaram, who convinced the MMSC saying that The RD were not in Production anymore and should not be raced any further. When we came back after so many years ... TVS again pushed us right at the end so we couldn't get any lime light to come back. That was the Death of the RD's for the final time. The same story holds for the ZMA's too ( absolutely zero backing from Hero Honda ). Further the scurtiny use to be a lot harder. It was sad a couple of years back at the last championship round only 3-bike were running ( you need minimum-6 to start a race ... what a joke TVS could bend this rule. Where as not applicable for Privateer 250 Group B-4 strokers). Even if some guy would have wanted to race the P-220 he couldn't, because as per rules the manufacturer have to homologate by paying 2-Lakhs to MMSC. Most of the guys who invested alot on the ZMA's were left as fools ( Funny how the World is pushing for a Moto-3 4-Stroke & the 250cc Class that is the nearest to it in India is dead ). Most guys here have no more money nor trust to spend on anything to do with racing. The Factory backed one make series is lot cheaper & Fun. The 2-stroke class in MMSC is still run to please the local crowd & Mechanics as they have a huge following for it and that too for how long is another story.

Further being in racing you should be aware of how much Pacer was paid by Yamaha to race for them. Shekar was blessed to get that Factory deal and became so rich by doing that and Funny how it all stopped with the 4-Strokes. One thing must be appreciated, He also achieved the results for them. Most of the parts came from the RX135 King racing that were done in Asean at that time. The privateer RX 135 guys are now blessed to get these parts in Chennai itself through a couple of guys who sell them locally off the shelf for a reasonable price. Also the 2-strokes of Pacer & TVS racing has also some how landed to this class of people my friend. Slowly Parts for the R15 Group B may be flowing. Currently they are available with key Tuners and are way too expensive at this point of time.

Eventually when the 2-stroke class there too was being moved to 4-strokes the same idea was pushed by TVS here. That led to the Departure of the Factory 2-stroke Efforts ( as strokers are not in production anymore ) & 4 -Strokes stepped in. With out a bike called R15 ... racing would have been dead today as TVS would have been doing circle on others with out the involvement of major manufacturer's.

In the Group-D you can almost get most things from Yamaha Factory India today. Where as in the Group-B .. you still need to get parts from the Asean counter part... Tyres, Carbs, Cam Kit, Ignition Kit, 165 Bores, Close Ratio Gear Box, Clutch, Wheels, Brakes & so on. Does any one run F.I in this class. Then where are things Indian in it my friend. The Group D yes may be. TVS's promised race kits also never arrived as they were afraid of being kicked by privateers. Further these Days if you are really smart, you can procure the right parts you require by e-mail, Credit Card & Shipped directly to to your address from the right guys from the Asean Racing Series. We never had this luxury then. Only the big Sponsored guys could ever do it in those days & bring what ever they wished through their Sponsors.

Big Motorcycle Manufacturer's are now bothered more about their one make series than anything else as they spend far less to gain alot more. Hey, I am not blaming them ... It's business for them during this Economic Hardship. Hey they do it in the World Championship levels. I Truly wish, We had the Suzuki FX150R & the Honda CBR 150 R manufactured here, with their respective factory backing, bataling each other along the R15's so we could have one hot 150cc 4-stroke series. Hope M&M would also be involved in Motorcycle Racing in the Future through some ways. A series based on their 125cc 2-stroke show caused on the Delhi Motor Show for an affordable price would be an eye opener for many.

Cheers - TZ750.

joel what is tyre size(both) in u r bike and tell me the company name also,why u choosed that only and what are the other options available

@aalop - Dont expect an answer from me on that. Its a race bike and I'd like to keep my facts to myself.

@TZ750 - Good info again. Those days were fun.
But I have a few corrections to make here.
You are probably taking it wrong here that we are importing every bit for the bike from abroad. And No, I dont need a MotoGP 125 frame to do a 1:56. I can do it very well with the existing one and we have already done some fancy laptimes which are kept very confidential. Nobody has a clue.
The development of my Group B engine started on my own road going R15. Read - I m the only guy in the grid running an ECU and a fuel injection system. Home-made ECU with everything hand built. No fancy chinese shitt boxes or some large corporate stuff. You will be surprised if I even said that my bike has done this laptime with nothing more than tyres, spare pistons and wheels that were imported from abroad. Read again, not even a cylinder head or block. All the boys who are plonking ready kits are stuck at 2 mins +. Only TVS has upped the game and they have done a good job of taking that RTR to such levels.
If the R15 was not sold here, does not mean that we would have not raced an RTR itself. FYI, I already have a fully blown Group B RTR engine, multivalve. My first choice was to build the RTR but it was my team strategy to build the R15. The RTR is such a sweet engine in every respect. I have an RTR motor which is already making a good ~150bhp/ltr. I dont care about who is building what and how much money the other guy has. Yes, factory teams always have an upper hand only in terms of resources. Physics remain the same.
We have clocked this laptime, with stock stock gearbox even. I dont care about talking all this in public coz I dont care if someone tries to even copy what I do even. Its just to make my build really clear to all the people out there.
lets not talk about other teams and their politics coz it makes no sense here.
Since you spoke about Raju, I was always surprised how Raju's Karizma was that slow when it ran in 2008. With all that race pedigree and having got the best ignition in the world from denso, running slicks and all the works. Mysteriously slower than the competition.
Expect TVS Racing, nobody from the 2-stroke era has made a come-back with 4-strokes. It has always been a disaster.
But in the end, I'm happy that we are getting good performance and its been a good year.

Joel

I am not accusing that you are using imported parts. I am really glad at least some one thinks like me that more can be achieved by using F.I over Carbs. I am also aware that just having fancy parts alone won't get people any where. I was merely pointing out how much more it is easier today to access these fancy parts than those days ... because of the 600 cc Class Races & travel of people to and forth to Asean who take part in these races and also gets them in contact with the Asean Tuners to try their Kits that's all. What ever I pointed are things that are legally allowed by the rule book and can be used in the Group B's, which you cannot buy it here. Either you need to have the skills to make it here (or) the money to buy it from there. If you are one of them to have chosen the prior, great.

Again pointing out at the Moto GP 125 frame I was only highlighting about the Dynamic characters of it not the Power Train ( I told R15's With the current state of tune not your engine in particular ). TVS has been doing alot with their underbone race activities in Asean. They have a factory in Indonesia for Co-Development. That doesn't mean I under estimate the hardworks of Mr.Thriuvengadam Sir & Mr. Senthil of TVS racing. Currently the key TVS riders are all gone and they have to build all over again with their newer generation.

Regarding some ZMA's bike being slow, others being fast ... The winning ones were built on the smallest sibbling of the CRF series engines made in India which the rule book never allowed. The subject of bringing Raju & MRF & others here is to highlight at one time the Money & R&D that was available for local racing and not about anyones tuning skills and achievements. I know How hard it was to race against the Factory backed Boys with hardly any budget and prove you can do with alot less.

I do agree with one thing that most cases the old 2-stroke tuners could never make the transfer to 4-strokes. They are some how reluctant to work with cams & valves. They only Know more about ports & pipes. That's why people like Raju, Shekar ( India ), Erv-Kanemoto, Bud-Aksland (Moto-GP) and so on are gone for good.

Anyway good luck towards edging to that 1:55 barrier my friend. As I have always said keep the good work going.

Cheers - Ganesh.

It cant be denied that the economy has grown and the rest of the world can be reached much easily than decades ago. Things are a phone call away, paypal account away or max a flight ticket away. Now that does not still give one, skills to understand whats the best bet for his engine unless he is guided or copying somebody else's efforts. In either cases, there is a brickwall awaiting you sooner or later.
You having sourced something by walking across the globe or clicking away does not matter when you line up the grid and face reality. Its just one of those one million excuses that are thrown around. We all know racing is not cheap and you cant go fast if you are not willing to spend or have the innovation to get faster. Again the assumption with most is that money can buy you a good tuner, parts and then gun for the win. Even factory teams will suffer if they dont have a good race engineer/s or even riders despite having massive funds.
About the frame, our rule book clearly says that the frame has to be Indian made. So that wet-dream is out of the window already my friend. How I wish, but I dont intend if it was permitted even. It would be a skip level jump, while you still have not exploited the limits of the stock one itself.
Laptimes again come with a combination of improved handling and more engine power, with both not being a standalone factor.
Yes, TVS is doing very well and they have to be appreciated for the fact that they are the only maker in the country who have some serious passion towards racing. Everybody else is simply scoping sales charts. And the TVS riders are no slouch. They have proven their worth last year with Harry and P.Karthik giving wins in 2009 in a very commendable fashion. Even this year during the rounds they have done their best with the machinery.
And coming to the Karizma Group B's, now it very clearly states in the rule book that you can swap anything unless its made in india. Nowhere does in the rule book it say that the crankcase cant be swapped. Provided its made in india. So if they used the CBF150 crankcase in the 230, its in no way illegal. What you saying holds true if it was group C. The smart ones got smarter. I have been hearing many rounds of this news around the track, come-on man read the rule book.
Last but not least, I have never quoted my target laptime. I sure intend to go a little faster than what we did now. Its not easy, and its going to be a solid challenge from this level. Shaving 2-3 secs is easy to type and speak, but its a lot more than just that much. I dont want any rumours doing rounds.

Cheers,

Joel

Joel, Congratulations to you & your team for the new lap Record. All the BEST for the coming races too.

CHEERS,
G D

Hey congratulations Joel.

beating the mights like Yamaha raching and TVS is a big feat.

wish you loads of such feats and success in future and continue to make us proud.

r15 165cc 25bhp ??

Joel is there a dyno test report to prove what you are saying ??

Well this was 2 years ago. The bike, post which has evolved and now stands 6 secs per lap faster from where it started. From 2:01 to a late 1:55 that its now capable of.

Race bikes have their own level of tune privacy and nothing is revealed. Dont try to promote piracy here.

How many times and on how many threads do we need to ask the same question?

if the race r15 is capable of beating a 30bhp TVS, then that bike should be making more power than 30bhp of the TVS or should be really lite if we are not able to tune the engine and get power like what TVS automobile engineers do..

Anyways.. the Dyno request was for you retail bore kit etc which is on sale which makes 25bhp. not the race bike..

The current lap record is held by by Mahindra Racing Team and it is 1:56..

MMSC race result did not show 1:55 as you mentioned.. anyways.. will be happy to see your bike doing 1:55

I do understand but when we talk about claims we should have data to back it up. when some one says the 170 r15 makes 25bhp on wheel, we need to see some data to see if it is for real. coz if thats the case i would sell my CBR and get a r15 and will get Jammed..

Because all the claims are totally ridiculous & we like to see how these are done; see the other thread where a guy claims 170cc & 25 bhp & that's not a race prep machine. Post this numbers on any international forum & then see the response!!!

There's a certain degree of difference between a full tuned vehicle and stock vehicle, the major one being that the stock can be tuned further.

And instead of selling your CBR, why don't you get its head tuned and wait for further upgrades?

Guys, too many reports are received from this thread. Repeatedly challenging the same person (or his claims, for whatever reasons) in different topics is NOT going to bring anyone any benefit.

When 200cc stock machines can give 25 bhp, I've no reason to believe that a 170cc well tuned machine can not give 25 bhp.

Personal reasoning aside, when you purchase any tuner's kit, trust is must. You think Dyno readings can't be faked? What's the proof that one is using the SAME EXACT 170cc bore, or other components that you're talking about, when preparing a dyno chart?

My point is simple: If you trust the tuner, you can trust his claims. If you don't trust, don't trust the graph itself, and don't deal with that person either. Let's not get into further arguments. The point has definitely been noted by Joel, and he will definitely get Dyno readings whenever possible. Kindly keep patience. Thanks.

Sir

surely i will get my head and my bikes head tuned once Dyno is posted and it should be a video like they show for exhaust change in youtube. they will show he bike running on the dyno and will focus on the dyno reading live and that cant be fake until unless they own their own dyno bed costing 5L + shipping..

if you see youtube exhaust dyno test, you will get my point.

CBR250R Dyno - YouTube

Anyways, we will wait for the chart + video and will be happy to get the bike tuned.

Thanks