@Sridhar - Mahindra racing team does not race in the Indian circuit. The rider - S. Sarath Kumar (my ex-rider on the Group B r15 for 2010 and 2011 season) has set the fastest lap record of 1:58 in 2010 and 1:56 in 2011. Please come ever to the track to have a clue of what real world racing is.
Coming to TVS racing, we beat TVS racing during the 2010 and 2011 seasons both in terms of lap record and on-board performance. TVS racing RTRs weigh lighter than us and are recorded at around 32hp now with its 4-valve head. We weigh a few kilos more than the TVS machines (as weighed at scrutiny) and are 2 secs faster per lap.
So your claim of ultra lightness and capability to tune or not is ruled out.
Like I said, I will never put out a race bike dyno chart, but the guesses can flow. Does not matter. A 163cc, 92 kilos (dry) (around 100kilos during race with fluids) R15 clocking a top-speed of nearly a true 160kph inside the MMSC track is pretty slow then. Just to let you a comparision, a stock r15 clocks a true top-speed of 125-130kph (105kilos in group D mode) and the fastest factory prep'd 2-strokes clocked 145-148kph true and were considered brutal, a few years ago. The factory 2-strokes were lighter and claimed to make over 30hp.
We have clocked 1:55 unofficially. 1:56 officially in Oct 2011. Our R15 was the first Indian race bike to break the 2 mins barrier at MMSC in 2010 and also to set a new lap record in 2011.

Can we ask you guys where are we heading with this argument? And how many pages do we still need to before you guys are satisfied with each other's claims?

Some of you guys say that Joel's claims are baseless and you are not satisfied with his answers or he is simply not answering your questions.

Lets assume, you are right.

So whats next? Are you guys not repeating the same thing again and again on a lot of threads?

This is an unending debate. He claims something, you have counter-claims for that.

We do not want to stop you guys from asking question, but let us know when and how will these arguments end?

I am from Chennai and i need to spend a lot of money if i have to go to Bangalore for tuning my bike. so I dont want to take my bike to Bangalore spending so much of money with out any conformation on what i get.
So i expect to get some data for me to invest on something which is sensible. if i say i will make ur CBR a 1000bhp bike, will you just trust me an come to my shop if i have one or will you ask for proof before you invest..
since there are spammers every were saying things which are not true. we expect some data coz end of they day i dont want to end up with a broken engine after investing so much on a Honda250R.
and when i invest my hard earned money, i want to confirm what i getting..

I am not a rich guy like most of them who spend a lot on bikes. i am wanting to invest out of interest and the desire to own a powerful bike.

correct me if i am wrong


Sir you are from Bangalore and if you have been to Chennai track.. we Chennai guys wouldn't have ?? dont be so rude on me sir.. all i want was a dyno report and video of dyno of the performance parts you sell and tuning you do.


Sir if you cannot publish the BHP dyno chart of your bike as it is confidential, How did you manage to get dyno chart of TVS racing team to know it makes 32 bhp ? is it not confidential ? Just wanted to know.

Sir i think you misunderstood everything. i was not asking for your race bike's dyno chart. i was only asking for your performance part that was suppose to make 25bhp on wheel.

why on earth would i ask for confidential information ? i know the level if secrecy maintained

Sir again you are just talking with no data.. and you are saying a 4stroke 163cc bike was quicker than a Factory tuned 125cc 2stroke GP bikes ? making 50+ bhp ? and r15 reached 160km/h in that 250 meter straight peace of track at Irungattukottai ?

factory prep'd 2-strokes RS125R 125cc bike making 44bhp click here

MODEL Honda RS125R
WEIGHT 71.5kg
44bhp @ 12250 RPM
Top Speed 240km/h


This version is sold outside as privateer bike and Honda team bike makes 50bhp

Sir i have no claim. and you will not see me claiming anything coz i am not a race engineer. i want to get my bike tuned and i started asking few questions. but till date there is only talk.. no data.. what can i do sir. as you said, i am going to stop there and all i expect is to see some data. i am also tired of asking data again and again

Nobody is or wants to make claims like that. There are testimonials of people traveling from Mumbai and Hyderabad to have their machines tuned. If you think traveling a distance Chennai-Bangalore is not worth it and all because you don't know the figures that the bike will make at the end of day is quite not understandable. I agree and respect that you have put in a hard earned money into the bike, but then tuning is way more than that.Hate the game not the player, tuning is not every ones cup of tea, that they decide can be done in a day or two. A lot of investment goes into it and not just financial.

It seems like you want to have the cake and eat it too.

Sir, incase you have ever visited ARE ( Apache Racing Experience) or the TVS stall at any famous auto show. You would have seen a bike that was showcased, which is below.


The specs that are displayed with it are something like this. Also see this (Click here)



This is the information given by the company itself, no dealer, no race engineer, no fan club or any Tom, Dick and Harry, but by the company itself.Please don't argue that its 20 and not 25 now.

P.S : Am no spokes person or Race Concept or Joel, just that i don't feel the way this thread is progressing is correct. The problem with we Indians is when nothing happens we simply sit and crib around, but then when someone wants to do something, we ensure to pull him down. Request to all to bring up constructive arguments and incase you don't believe in the work, just ignore.

Well going to track is onething and knowing what's happening there is a completely different matter altogether.

Factory tuned ( in our Indian racing context) means TVS/ YAMAHA tuned 2 strokes shogun/shaolin/RX which were raced here before the 4 strokes came in and no the Aprillias and Hondas.

Heard of the old Group C which is defunct now ? The crowd came in just to see that .

BTW please let me know which Mahindra bike and rider clocked the timing you ve said. I m a little eager to know if it was one of my friends who are probably the fastest around the track .

@Joel : Ready for the season starter this weekend ? Are you solely supporting any team this year or are you tuning and giving parts to different teams ?

I dont know why you want me to take peoples word for someones work. if it is really genuine. there should be real data. and i never asked DYNO and DYNO VIDEO for race bike.. i am only asking for the performance part. I dont know why it is so hard for only a Hand full of people to understand... I have nothing much to say.. No data.. No talk... simple as that.

Yes i am interested or would say i was interested till all this happened and now after seeing only words and no data.. i understood that i should not waste... let me use it stock as its better than any Indian bike in stock state..

Sir you are talking about a 20bhp TVS bike and he says 32bhp.. there is almost 12bhp diff and i would appreciate you can read previous post if you want to understand what i am saying.. He was not ready to disclose is race bike bhp output but he is claiming 32bhp for a bike which is tuned and preped by TVS racing.

This is what i asked

Sir if you cannot publish the BHP dyno chart of your bike as it is confidential, How did you manage to get dyno chart of TVS racing team to know it makes 32 bhp ? is it not confidential ? Just wanted to know

Is there something wrong in what i asked ?

the above is irreverent since you did not post info on TVS making 32bhp as he said.. Anyways.. thanks for the attempt



Sir, are you saying after sending a lot of money on r15 which will be race ready is only capable of beating 15years old 100cc bikes ?? that sounds very bad.

And after race prep the r15 will touch 160km/h in just 250 meters ? can you tell me the quarter mile timing if you dont mind. just wanted to know how powerful the bike is.

Come lets go for a real Dragon's Milk sounds funny

anyways.. xPolice clear said not to talk about it till we see some data.. i would appreciate if people can wait and give some time to the person who is yet to turn up with some data. i am sure he is working on it and it will see day of light soon...

Thanks

Saar The exit speed of C3 is close 90 kmphfor an average rider and C3 - C4 you can reach 131 kmph on a stock R15 bike which does a timing of 2:16 secs around the track. And it is not from standstill people reach that speeds saar , So quarter mile timing is pointless in a race track saar.

And i guess you forgot to answer the Mahindra bike/ rider name. PLease let me know.

Well said. Man, someone's having so many doubt about Performance Mods & still wants to go for it?? Does Joel needs to answer to every question here? Well, I definitely don't think so.

Hmm... interesting! Very interesting indeed!!! My street R16 has recorded a 0 -60 mph run in 9.14 seconds with a full wet weight of 130 kgs. According to this; the works TVS 160 RTR in 2007 was making 20 bhp and had a 9.5 second 0 - 100 km/h. The weight of that bike is surely far less than mine.

One more thing: the works bike has a compression ratio of 12.5:1 and is most likely running on high octane fuel (quite possibly aviation gas), mine runs on normal fuel.

That means my street R16 will run with a 2007 works TVS 160 RTR. I am loving it.... :... thanks Joel...

Now where is my 180cc kit... Joel??? where are you man???

This photo was from 2007. A lot has changed on that bike, its running a 4 Valve head and all now, and I saw an updated spec sheet in 2010 once, am sure its way more than 20 bhp thats given there... Actually, pretty sure it was some 30ish bhp... Thats what the company showcases in ARE s nowadays.

Why is that the Ariel Atom V8 (a 500bhp) machine clocks the fastest at the top gear track? A whole 1.7 seconds faster than a car which is a 1000bhp car. The answer is NOT just power to weight ratio.

1:15.1 Ariel Atom V8 500
1:16.2 McLaren MP4-12C
1:16.5 Lamborghini Aventador
1:16.8 Bugatti Veyron Super Sport


Anyway SKD - If you want the Dyno and Dyno video, then wait for a while and on the appropriate thread for it. Atleast dont flood all the threads with x vs y and what if and what not. This was a thread about a new lap record and look where it has reached now...

Is it just me, or does the average IQ seem to be going down in this place?...hope it doesnt end up like Orkut.

I shall borrow a senior member's signature line here to set the tone for this post.

'This is not a bakery. I don't sugar coat anything. If you ask for my opinion...then that's what you'll get. Don't be mad when it's not what you want to hear.'

The only difference is that this is not 'my opinion' here but a declaration towards maintaining forum etiquette.

One more post on this thread that deviates from the track racing/lap timing topic that this thread is originally about gets deleted with its poster suo moto. And I shall not bother about those knee-jerk 'crowd-gathering shouts' on FB, SB, GB, HB or whatever B by the aggrieved or offended party.

xBhp is a platform that has been made available for you to discuss, share and gain knowledge. The transactions can turn volatile and argumentative at times and it is a tri-partite responsibility between the ones who are arguing and the admin/mods to keep even something as negative as an argument productive. We here are doing our best and expect no less from you all. Please learn to stick to the topic and get beyond this class-room mind-set that needs a teacher around in control or it turns chaotic and noisy.

Good to see your post after a very long time,but sad about the circumstances.....Hope things take a better turn.

The spec sheet above is of a RTR pro-kit RTR160 and not the Group B. The group B was claimed to be making 30hp back in 2009. The new 4-V development makes the engines ofcourse more powerful and has better output.
Well, this discussion has gone off-topic only due to a stupid argument. Sridhar, you and your friends here seem highly motivated. On some sort of adreline trip to rule-out things and prove your own points. Go ahead!
If you could dig a 2-year old thread and ask this, I bet you are burning mid night oil and reading all my posts and threads..lol

@Pratik aka Abhimanyu - At the track now. Round one of the 2012 championship. Building power plants at the track right now and once back, its coming your way