Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

Hey, I did not mean that I prefer a city to far flung faces, I just meant that electrical vehicles is not right now feasible for villages but, could be accepted in cities.
Also, import of crude oil is not a sure thing, I only said it because it is a possibility if electric vehicles are being used more and more. About the research, you are absolutely right, thats why I said that talking of energy - any kind, is not something that you can judge on, because right now every source has more cons than benefits. Unless vast improvements are done on use of non-conventional energies, there will always be disadvantages.
Portable nuclear reactors are cheaper to make and maintain, but the problem with nuclear wastes still pester.

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

You've put your point of view very well [MENTION=51699]dustom_99[/MENTION]. We shouldn't take anything just on its face value.

Agree with you that our current method of electricity generation are equally harmful to the environment and that leaves the e-vehicles not that green in the end, at least as of now. However, we must also consider the fact that fossil fuel reserves are depleting pretty quickly and we need newer forms of energy. Improvement in the fuel efficiency in petrol/diesel engines is almost stagnant now and there's no hope that we'll able to produce diesel/petrol engines that will be significantly more efficient than the current ones.

On the other hand, the development (and the potential) in the battery efficiency is huge. And with nanotechnology coming into play, there's no doubt that the batteries 5 years from now will be much much energy efficient than what we have today. In the last few years only, the battery driven 2 wheelers have gone leaps and bounds.

Also agree with your point that we as a nation are moving very slowly towards non-conventional methods of energy generation. But sooner or later we will move there hopefully and we need to prepare ourselves for that.

Also one more important aspect of overreliance on fossil fuel is its impact on our socio-economic and strategic front. Look what America has done to Iraq for their oil. OPEC can hold the world to ransom at their will.

p.s.: Flipkart founders finally noticed my blog “E” is the right choice, baby! | xBlogs

p.p.s.: [MENTION=51699]dustom_99[/MENTION] Please change your profile picture on the xbhp forum. We do not allow any helmetless riding photos on the forum.

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

The only proper green way of commuting is cycling! #JustSaying

Of course supported by govt. infrastructure and pedal friendly cities where cycles are allowed inside local trains, buses and metros!

This is how small a folding bike gets -

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

Sunilg , with Kyoto protocol likely to come into effect before 2020 ( hopefully India & china get some sense on their stand) , it would become clear which energy sources are truly less polluting.

As far as fossil fuel goes , coal( major electric generation fuel) is also a fossil fuel and is depleting as well.

Also i do not think energy conversion is much of a problem , once we have a source , we can have energy in whatever for we want it. So electric energy or chemical energy or whatever is just a KW. Its source is important , which is where our search should concentrate as sources are depleting.

Although some improvements can be done on milage front in coming years , I agree it would not be a quantum leap. But so has electric generation.
Efficiency of power generation plants is also stagnant as it also employs same mechanical & electrical principals and materials.

Battery improvement will not contribute to energy crunch , but certainly can make electric vehicle cover longer distances before a recharge.

Not only current electric generation is just as polluting , but an electric vehicle ( high technology future concept cars as shown in auto shows by manufacturers) puts down about 22j of energy to the road from available 100j as ( whole process efficiency) as compared to about 30j put down by a new gen diesel car .
This includes energy losses during processing and transportation of fuel.

Will change DP soon!

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

And walking too, Having a Big car and a Big bike is nowadays a need not a want Just saying

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

Agree with your arguments about e-vehicles not being as 'green' as advertised. But you are talking only about the production. What about the running of these vehicles? IC engine vehicles deplete fossil fuels and increase pollution through exhaust gases. Electric vehicles take up electricity(again through burning of fossil fuels in power plants) but do they produce similar pollution?

And if you say they pollute by killing local flora and fuana etc, then come on, the power plants have already been setup. The damage is already done. It's not like we are setting up new powerplants just to run electric vehicles. And agreeing with sunilg, the scope for energy efficiency is much higher in the case of alternatively-fuelled vehicles. If we dont give a chance to them, when will we do R&D to make them better?

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

Just my humble opinion, Hybrid (The one which Toyota developed) seems to be best technology. A mix of both. There are also talks going on of blending fuel here but in European countries, it has already been adopted and seems to be helping a lot

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

I too agree with alternative fuel vehicles but are electric vehicle alternate fuel??
For every kw you use on e vehicle , you caused polution equivalent to 5kw.
For every diesel ( new gen) you caused 2.5kw worth of pollution .
If exhaust does not comes out of tail pipe that does not mean its not polluting.
E vehicke relocated the pollution to some place else.
Also this data is European data, for us , difference would be much higher as our grid is only 50% efficient as compared to much better in europe.
Electric vehicle have had their chance already! They have been around for a long long time.
Power plants aready set up are struggling to meet present demand , how would they cater to few lack e vehicles?
New dams , wind projects , power plants cause further damage.

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

but if this thing comes for 50-60k and does at least 60-70km per charge and their claim of battery can be used upto 1L km... i will be their first customer...

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i completely agree on this part. electric vehicles are not completely pollution free however if our so called great country starts utilizing more of natural resources for power generation then yes... it can help in reducing pollution ....

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.


Would appreciate if you include the source for these facts and figures.

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

Most of the grid data is available on web.
European article on e vehicle is also available online i guess. Will need to find it.
I read an article in SIAM circulation mail that we get.
Will try to look for it and post whatever i can without offending company policy.

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.



I think these guys are saying what I am saying.
In india they pegged effective emissions of a green car like nissan leaf at 370g/km . we have diesel cars that are already only 110g/km and very soon we will have cars on diesel that will dip below 100g/km.

Also look at this bbc article.

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

[MENTION=51699]dustom_99[/MENTION] Yes, you're right.
The same point has been echoed by [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] sir, numerous time, although it was in reference to electric locomotives vs diesel locomotives (Indian Railways), but the message is the same...
As a lecturer for Environmental Studies, I also agree with the above two.... (except that nuclear scooters in my opinion, can't actually be a reality, due to their destructability in accidents, public indiscipline, as well as space required).

Electric RIGHT NOW, does NOT mean green. Even in my post, I didn't write green. Years later, like sunilg bro says, yes, they'll surely be a good alternative when we might not have enough sources for .

Presently, Ather's nowhere close to a revolution in the "Macro" sense... I believe we can get that clear before talking further.... Let's talk further, shall we?


Now coming on the "micro" portion of the equation...


The reason why we should be excited is the 110 NM torque and the claims about it being the best scooter we rode... If its even half truth, we'll still have a hell of a ride! Its near to what most LITRE CLASS MOTORCYCLES can manage guys, that too with less than half the weight.

Just to remind the unexcited guys, Bandit makes 107 NM torque, that too only @ 3700 rpm, not all through the rev range...

Probably a motorcycle with even better specs can touch what 130 NM? We would spend lacs of rupees for this class of performance, right?


A secondary reason could be the micro level savings, because we actually save more, on fuel costs (speaking purely in personal/ micro sense).

I can see only good days for the consumer in general by this move. It improves on everything the customer thinks about.

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

An interesting article on the Electric Vehicle vs ICE Vehicle debate from Europe -

BBC News - Electric cars 'pose environmental threat'

Re: Flipkart Founders invest $1m in Chennai based company, Ather.

If some one said he got a Ebike for performance , i would agree.
They get huge torque right from 0 rpm that's their plus.
Just do not kid yourself as saviour of world which is the way owners feel about their so called green car.

But anyway e-vehicle torque keeps dipping with every passing km.
50 miles later they would be looking for a 5hr recharge in a lonely mountain pass if they competed with gas vehicles. Atleast with present technology.