Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

So you are saying the entire development (or lets say most of it) was by Bajaj RnD in Pune and not by KTM Austria?
By that I mean chassis construction(the swingarm/the trellis frame including the related structure/strength/rigidity analysis) etc was all done in Pune by Bajaj engineers?
Till now I thought a co-developed product was what the pressers said, but a fully Bajaj developed Duke 125/200 is something I am hearing for the first time.
The fact that this was announced in 2007 shortly after Bajaj first acquired KTM shares makes me think that Bajaj simply 'manufactured' it and the analysis and development was done in Austria.
Of course I may be wrong. But it beggars belief that Bajaj suddenly had a much better engineering know how in such a short span to develop the dukes in house?
Look at the dukes(and the pulsars which share some of the tech). They are generations apart. They are not incrementally good but head and shoulders above the earlier gen Pulsars.
Do you have details/claims of the dukes being developed completely in India by Bajaj engineers(with may be small or minimal inputs from KTM guys?)
Was the head of the effort a guy sitting in Austria or someone in India?

PS: Lest I am viewed as someone who is desperately hoping for his bike to be 'foren' I would state that I have absolutely no issues with a Bajaj or TVS product as long as they are quality.

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

There is no way Duke could have done entirely done by Bajaj. I guess they got the designs supplied by KTM under some tech transfer agreement and did some changes to suit Indian conditions.

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

I did not say that KTM outsourced development entirely in India

It was co development with most of the job done in India.

In case of KTM its not just Contract Manufacturing

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

More details are available as it has been showcased @ EICMA 2015. Specs and production redy pics are out.

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

Super dynamic, to look at!

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS


Should probably bludgeon myself for even continuing on this, this is absolute mea culpa. Payeng, you've clearly contradicted yourself in your post. Now I wouldn't say where, as one of the person above has clearly pointed and laid out his points for further clarification. You're a well-versed moto blogger, and I think it'd be a wise idea to reconsider what you have on hand to submit with proper attestation. In a time when Bajaj was struggling to get hold of the sales with an FI system (circa 220 FI) that was plagued with issues, you'd think in two years they would have mastered the know-how, to master such intricate design? And in an era where DIaSIL was taking the lead, they all of a sudden launched their first NIKASIL cylinder, et al and go mainstream with KTM, and then KISKA designed the project around what Bajaj engineered, would be total farce.

I still refute the notion people calling KTMs a Bajaj. Nowhere in there is a Bajaj influence, apart from the basic bins, bits and pieces. In fact it's Bajaj that has KTM influence all around and you can see this in their recent upward trend with the onslaught of launches, especially LC and FI motorcycles.

Let me stop it at that.


KTM 390 Duke DE mini review and photos. | DERESTRICTED

KTM RC 390 Features and Benefits | DERESTRICTED

and even more, Google is your friend.

Cheers!
VJ

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

TBH, I'm hearing a lot of misinformed things about the KTM twins these days.

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS


Didn't you know that my office address from 2008 to 2012 was...

... Bajaj Auto, Akurdi, Pune ?


:-)

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS


Should've guessed it. From the way you defend Bajaj.

PS: No defending Triumph now? Since you work for them.

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

Your stint at Bajaj Auto is something to be proud of, in fact proud of you, Payeng. One thing to keep in mind is, just because one worked as an apprentice or had "little" insight, the know-how should not translate into misinformed propaganda. Nowadays, the scenario is you work for Microsoft's back-office, you immediately work for Microsoft, you work for IBM call-center, you work for IBM, you work as a salesman in Porsche, you work at Porsche. See, this doesn't make sense, there's lot more to it than what you see Payeng.

I would absolutely love myself to be proven wrong by you, WITH the proper attestation, of course.

Everyone working on their sweetspot "WILL" have some technical, practical knowledge as to what they are doing, that's fine, as long as they know what they are doing and what's factual and what's heresay.

P.S. The link you've given shares the stake ownership which everyone know of, what we are astute about is the technical know-how which you've mentioned, that's what we're looking for, not ownership of stakes. Do not confuse collaboration with ground up development, they are two different sides of the dice. Everyone knows Bajaj manufactures it, with insights from KTM

Anyways, this shall be my final post, not to pollute this thread and I request all the members to do the same.

Thank you so much.

Cheers!
VJ

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS


m.moneycontrol.com/news/business/bajaj-auto-buys-145ktm-for-rs-300cr_311704.html

Hope a news article from MoneyControl would suffice.. from 2007

If that is not enough then probably only a written and signed attestation from Mr. Bajaj would do.

Now that's something to take offence.. :-)

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

None given Payeng. Take it easy. All I am asking here to share are astute insights.

Let me give a clear example to you!

We all know TVS is in Dakar, and they recently completed the DAKAR. If you go TVS' website, you see Apache RTR 450 badged all over it as TVS Apache RTR 450 and it finished the Dakar race. Fine!

Now, many of us know this TVS Dakar thing going viral and most were interested in the rider Santhosh, the rider himself et cetera et cetera.

Coming to the point. Did TVS really manufacture an engine that could challenge the Dakar? Did you know that the current TVS Apache is an overbore of the Suzuki Fiero? Did TVS do ground up engineering work on the Suzuki and Apache platforms even though they were both in JV? I can show you a news of yesteryear of TVS and Suzuki joint venture and say, I worked of TVS and this is the link. Would you believe? It doesn't work that way.

The current DAKAR engine is SHERCO a French/Spanish manufacturer of off road motorcycles, TVS engineers "WORKED" with them

Features of the TVS RTR 450 specially designed for Dakar Rally 2015



So if I were a part of "that engineers" team, and I say, TVS manufactured the engine, branded it as Apache 450, finished the Dakar race all the while, while not having a single engine on their own in their home market, would you take that. That would be poking my eyes with a fourchette.

The attestation was not a written document that I asked for, astute points, not of news, everyone knows of.

Cheers!
VJ

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

Bajaj-KTM venture from the very beginning was supposed to be a venture with "co-development" as one of its highlights

Something that was made clear from the outset.. mentioned in the money control link (and therefore the share)

.. it was not 100% KTM or 100% Bajaj either during the development cycle.

Why should this sound like Propaganda? I have been a witness to it during my 4 years (more than apprenticeship and bit more than a slight insight) at Akurdi



In case of BMW-TVS, it has been clearly mentioned that entire development was done in Germany.. TVS would just manufacture it for BMW





P.S: Am no longer associated with BAL.. no longer ride a Bajaj (have an Impulse now).. and certainly have no vested interest to spread propaganda

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

I completely agree your words bro as even I was of the opinion like others [MENTION=39214]B7ACKTHORN[/MENTION] but soon got it clarified by one of the personals of Bajaj. . .

Remember having a chat for an hour or so with one of the Bajaj Personals few weeks back who I know personally (sorry I cannot share anymore details
about him) where we were discussing about all the products of Bajaj and then this topic came in between about TVS-BMW wherein I asked him about this stake thing and then he started to explain me that the TVS-BMW tie-up is entirely different from that of Bajaj-KTM and that Bajaj-KTM bikes are co-developed here in India and so many other things, that's when I learnt that KTM bikes weren't done by KTM alone, but here in India at Bajaj's plant (though I cannot say how much percentage one has over the development of the product because I forgot to ask ). . . Until he clarified me, I was of the same opinion as the rest of you that KTM bikes were just manufactured by Bajaj and that they had nothing to do in the technical department but he cleared me about this entire confusion . . .

PS: He isn't a apprentice or sales guy or works in the back-office or call centre or gets to see just some insights, he's one of the top PERSONAL . . .

I hope this might make things clear for some if not all. . .

Cheers!!!

Re: BMW Single Cylinder 300cc Concept in partnership with TVS

Thread Closed

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