Re: Help me buy a superbike

i read a lot of posts in this whole forum about utilising ( or not being able to) the full potential of a bike blah blah blah.
can someone enlighten me on whats the full potential of a hero splendor and how to utilise it fully.
asking because i wish to understand when have i utilised it fully and am ready to upgrade.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

My opinion of going through bike ownerships, 150 cc to 250-400cc to 650 -800cc to 1000cc. This method can do no wrong. My riding started on a Honda dio, went to a unicorn for a long time which thought me a lot and now to the CBR which really thought me about bike care n maintenance, my first experience very of a bigger bike was a ninja 650 with a full scorpion exhaust and I'm not even joking it gave me a orgasm, next up was a benelli 600 , I noticed these mid segment bikes are starter bikes innthe states , I guess that's the road culture there , what are considered starter bikes there are luxury bikes here, then I had the fortune to ride one of the most powerful 250 s ever,tzr 250 two stroke twin cylinder 60hp stock road bike and boy it gave me a new respect for two strokes, after that rode the 899 panigale, which showed me a glimpse of owning a sbk and instantly I knew this bike will be happy only on the track , last"big bike" I test rode was 650 f, which was interesting and obviously I don't need to talk About smoothness . Now I have confidence to ride a litre bike cause I will know how to use and not abuse the power, gradually going up from smaller bikes, gives you better feel and confidence and a added sense of responsibility, this is purely my opinion, but having said that , don't buy a supersport if your not going to go on the track , your better off with a toured or naked.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

Stick to splendour for the location you are in or put in some more money and get a good bicycle..bla bla bla

P.S: You have been enlightened. Now stop polluting the thread.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

thanks a lot sir.
believe me, i am actually searching for a bicycle right now. would love to wander in early morning breeze while i maintain my fitness and be green about it. went to decathlon but wasnt impressed by the range of bicycles they had. but let me not pollute this thread by bringing my cycling career here and lets stick to the advices given to op. he is inclined towards a ducati panigale however people are opining that one should not jump to a superbike directly and should improve step by step as a rider while upgrading. i find this idea very logical. however since this was being discussed here, i thought i d better ask people here about my doubts.
sir i am in reality not a bit enlightened by your answer about utilizing of potential because your answer was very brief and didnt address the query.
i would seriously like to have some more clarification ( not just from you sir but any FM) as i cant understand this upgrade cycle without this.
here are my doubts regarding same:
do i need to hit the top speed of my existing bike to be utilising its full potential? does a front disc brake means i have to at least once perform a stoppie to be utilising its full potential. will a plain stoppie do or is a rolling stoppie mandatory. what other parameters to judge the potential of a bike and rider?
i understand that i am absolutely noob but i couldnt find anything on google regarding these details . in fact i didnt find any international forum that talks about utilising full potential of a bike outside of a track. does this means i have to ride my bike on a track once or repeatedly to match her full potential and then be eligible for upgrade?
i doubt most bikers and superbikers are doing that although a lot of them do. or does this means here in a track emaciated india, we are utilising potentials of our bikes in some other way. in fact, i saw a mention of california superbiking school which are a track riding training institute. we assume that riding nicely on track will make you better rider on street automatically but then again, they come to india once a year and all their seats are full the day they are announced.
i am all confused and that too without factoring in various families of motorcycles. eg touring, adventure, motocross etc.
what about utilising full potential of a touring motorcycle. how much would i need to tour on bajaj avenger before buying a um renegade or hyosung aquila or street 750. or is there any other criteria to judge tourers. its all very confusing to me.
since this forum is open to public i am sure a lot of future buyers may have same doubt as mine hence i dared to ask at the risk of being called ignorant. pardon me but this point should be clarified.
ps- ur handle is nice. ac dc . are you an electrical engineer by profession?? nice to meet you.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

Ok, I am just assuming you are having genuine queries and will try to answer. Simple thing is - there is no mathematical formula about potential of a bike and how much of it a given user has utilised it and when he should upgrade and to what he should upgrade (he/she ...I support all genders riding bikes - just mentioning he as a representative!)

Nobody else but you can tell you whether you love riding bikes and want to learn how to go faster - not just in straight line but also in corners...One that kind of want exists in you, definitely you will find Splendor kind of bike to be very inadequate. Nothing wrong with it - it wasn't built for that purpose at all.

If you try to corner hard on a Splendor, you are likely to meet a disaster soon. It just doesn't have engine to go fast, brakes to stop suddenly and tyres that will hold the road and forgive you some mistakes. That doesn't make it bad product - it just means you have chosen a wrong product for a wrong purpose. If you are in love with 100 km/litre stuff (ok, that is too much but at least 60-70 km/litre) then it is correct product. If you are moving in that direction, then next option is Cycle...But on the other hand, if going faster on a petrol consuming two wheeler is your aim, then read ahead!!

If you really want to go into details - this could be one possible sequence of your progress:

1) Pulsar 200 NS (or RS) or Yamaha R15 - This would be your entry into performance motorcycles
2) KTM Duke 390 (or RC 390) or Yamaha R3 - This would be next step
3) Benelli 600i/Kawasaki Ninja 650 - These aren't exactly sporty bikes - so you may or may not go to these choices if your primary aim is to learn being faster - Again, there are riders who can ride these very fast and put to shame many riders on much bigger/faster bikes - but I am not talking of superhuman capacity - talking about a normal Indian Motorcycle Rider who is trying to learn the art
4) Triumph Street Triple765/Kawasaki Z900 - Mentioning these because now Street 675 and Z800 are obsolete and being replaced by these bikes. This is where real big game is just starting. These bikes are really fast and deadly if not taken seriously. They will easily do 200 kmph anytime you twist the accelerator hard and quickly shift gears! I have seen 208 kmph in 4th gear quite a few times.. These will also provide you capability to corner hard...They have tyres with awesome grip and chassis and suspension to match the engine power...On these bikes if you do it right, you will be toe-scratching within 1 year and may be knee-scratching in another 1 year...(Again individuals will achieve this at different points of time. Note that Toe slide/Knee slide is a by-product of going fast in a corner, having proper body position and right amount of lean angle - don't try to scratch toe/knee for the sake of it - it automatically happens.
At this stage you would have invested a lot in riding gear also and possibly should have gone to riding school (there are multiple options and not just CSS though that is considered as the top one).

The above bikes are truly usable on our roads - whether weekend fun or daily riding. Few other options exist as well - I am not into any kind of marketing of the brands I have mentioned - these are just my personal thoughts.

Beyond this, realm of mind-warping fast supersport and 1000cc bikes starts. These are super expensive, rare, harder to maintain, tougher to ride in normal Indian road conditions and very focussed track weapons.

That is where bigger and more exotic names like Ducati, MV Agusta, BMW come in...These have super fancy electronics and adjustable suspension and what not - plus they have engines that propel you like a missile on 2 wheels...Truly not suitable for our conditions - just imagine - you are riding one of these, you happen to sneeze with a shudder that accidentally shakes your wrist also while unfortunately it is gripping the accelerator tightly - consequences of such thing are better left undiscussed!!

Some people can get tired of the fact that whether it is naked or faired sport bike - those are quite unsuitable for bumpy/potholed roads and are not comfortable for riding beyond anything from 150-400 km. These sort of people want not to ride as fast but they want long distance riding capability with ability to soak up bad roads without punishing the spine and other bones in your body.

For them Touring/Adventure segment exists - like Kawasaki Versys (650, 1000 cc), Triumph Tiger (various models - 800, 1200 cc). These are tall motorcycles that are not made for going screaming fast but they are still quite quick compared to anything normal Indian riders can think of yet they handle almost all bad roads that we have. Depending on choice, they handle off-road also.

In that segment, one focussed bike is Honda Africa Twin - This is also a very accomplished motorcycle and will be available in India soon as per some magazines.

If you have plenty of money, want to really show it to the public and love to be in the limelight - then big cruisers are for you. These are really huge and expensive and make some noise (larger number of "aam Indian Junta" loves these bikes and they will come in hoards to get their photos with such bikes).
These have nice brotherhood and all...Lot of celebrity people ride these big bikes and they have really fancy parties etc..
Among cruisers I will rate INDIAN as refined and worth rather than Harley.
Anyway, with these bikes you will go fast very rarely - these are for easy going but long rides in very comfortable manner (almost like you are sitting on a moving sofa!)
These are still much faster than our commuter motorcycles and still need to be handled with respect due to huge power, scary torque and super heavy weight along with long wheelbase and turning radius.

Clarification - It is very much possible to directly buy Kawasaki ninja H2 and ride it without much trouble if you do have funds. Only reason for gradually going up the capacity and power is to allow our body and brain to adjust sufficiently with behaviour of the machine. So, it would be much better to spend 1-2 years on say a 200-300 cc bike, 2-3 years on 600-800 cc bike and then to move to higher segment (if at all you think that 600-800 cc can't entertain you enough and you personally feel that you need a faster bike to satisfy yourself.) There is of course no criteria or formula - you just feel it - it is one of those intangible things. In my case, I moved from KTM Duke 200 to Street Triple because I wanted to go into multi-cylinder sport bike segment and definitely wanted such bike to have ABS - only Street Triple, CBR650F and Z800 met such criteria at that point. But I liked Street Triple most (read my thread for more info on that aspect if you intend to buy that bike).

I hope this helps..

Re: Help me buy a superbike

@jeevan.chaukar thanks for such a detailed answer.
i agree with this step by step approach as well your elaboration on what type of bike is made for what kind of rider. i still fail to understand why would someone willing to buy a cruiser or willing to go touring on motorcycle or wishing to buy and use a trailie( i think these ones must be seasoned riders. newbies would rarely consider trailies right away) need to go through upgrade cycle.
very well put and i wholeheartedly agree. but on streets, our body needs to adjust to riding posture , bike weight and weight distribution etc. of different families of bikes. for advanced street riders, maybe engine power delivery or brake bite too. but that barely need 2 3 hundred kms of cautious rides to get used to. then why suggest this step by step upgrade approach at all.
would appreciate your ( as well as other members') thoughts on my above mentioned doubt.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

As I said, there is no fixed formula. Step by step approach is advised purely because beyond 200-300 cc class, the amount of investment into any particular bike as well as ongoing maintenance is very high (relative of course - if you have a problem of "how to spend money" then it is a different ball game!).

For premium bike in any segment above 600 cc, you are looking at minimum investment of:
1) Anything from 8 lakh to 70 lakhs depending on your budget and aspiration for a bike
2) Anything from Rs 40000 to Rs 4 lakhs for your protective gear (Helmet, Gloves, Jacket/Pants OR one piece suite, Boots)
3) Any amount of accessories for your bike (people spend as much as Rs 5 lakh on a bike in accessories which originally is priced at Rs 14 lakh)
4) Electronic stuff that compliments your riding - GoPro camera (ok cheaper stuff is also there - but....), BlueTooth Communication Device like SENA and so on...

Basically you are looking at endless spending just at the beginning! If you crash, then you spend much more of course and also have to wait a lot for repairs to the bike as well as your body!
Therefore it may be good to slowly up the stakes rather than directly buying BMW S1000RR and crashing on 2nd day after purchase and staying in hospital for next 6 months!
Obviously some people may very well adjust with such superfast bikes on day one and won't crash anytime so soon (can't say that they will NEVER crash - almost everyone crashes at some point - please understand!).

India has 1.3+ billion people and world has 7 billion Each one has different thinking - so there is market for all kinds of bikes - even toy/monkey bikes as they are called, pocket bikes also...So naturally there is huge market for Cruisers and Tourers as well. Cruisers are glamorous and suit long distance riding strictly on good roads while Tourers are sturdy and hardy vehicles that can take rough and smooth roads equally well. But tourers are not real off-roaders - so people want trail bikes. They can take these bikes and literally jump on top of big boulders or do river crossing, hill riding and all that...To each his own!

As for me, I like to go FAST! In straight line as well as corners! So my choice is of an agile, lightweight, sufficiently powerful motorcycle which is also fairly good in daily riding conditions (like jammed traffic in Hinjewadi Pune!). Street Triple is one bike throwing minimum heat on your feet even during summer. Even 200 cc bike such as Duke throws more heat on your feet than Street Triple.

Only problem of Street Triple is lower ground clearance which makes it vulnerable - your engine sump bottom can crack OR you may end up tearing your coolant tank if you are careless while going over a sharp and high-rise speed breaker. Unfortunately, we have too many of such speed breakers all over India including Pune so one has to be super careful. Except this part, I am very happy with the bike so far.

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INDIAN motorcycles are available for test ride at their showrooms - if you are a serious buyer, I do think they will entertain you. But beware that all cruisers have low sitting position with legs spread a bit wide and stretched to rest on the foot pegs far ahead of you to make it comfortable for longer distance. It is good for going slow and easy. For normal daily usage - go for a naked sport bike (just read reviews of Kawasaki Z650 - now it has ABS and very reasonable price also with decent performance..Other option is Benelli 600i which also has ABS and sounds great - but Z650 may actually be slightly faster in real conditions. As you increase budget options will also increase.)

Re: Help me buy a superbike

hmm.
so all this step by step upgrade advise is to prevent crashing eh? to promote safe riding right? to help riders save their machines, skin, cash and of course egos. did i understand it correctly?

Re: Help me buy a superbike

Buddy, haven't seen you post on any ownership thread around here, you just talk about superbikes since 2009. Which bike do you currently ride?

Re: Help me buy a superbike

you got a pm bro.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

No I didn't. Please try again..

Re: Help me buy a superbike

Not sure what you intend here or you are simply needling me to have some fun while I keep typing long responses - but I will take it as a genuine query once again. There is nothing to prevent crash. Whether you are on Activa or BMW S1000RR, there is no assurance that you will not crash. All I am saying is about probability and consequences.

If you are good rider and don't overstep your own limits then your crash probability on S1000RR is much lesser than humble Activa - because of electronics (ABS, traction control), great brakes and super sticky tyres and also because you are so skilled.

On the other hand CONSEQUENCE of crashing on S1000RR is much worse. Typically your riding speeds will be higher and hence a fall will impact you much harder. So personal and vehicle damage - if at all it happens - will be huge in such case. Very minor damages to a bike like Street Triple run into 2 lakhs etc where rider just slipped a bit and few parts had to be replaced. Forget crash - even things like getting rim damaged due to pothole has major cost (of course insurance will reduce the burden).

Again - in case of activa crash - personal damage still could be high but vehicle damage is much cheaper (entire scooter can be replaced at Rs 70000/- even if there is no insurance right!)

There is no guarantee or formula - but if you are a real rider on Indian roads then you should very well understand what I am trying to say here.

Nothing except your budget and age (if you are below 18 you can't!) stops you from buying most exotic and fastest bike directly as your first one - but just be aware and cautious and don't hurt yourself in such case.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

jeevan.chaukar sir, please don't waste any more time on our entsurgeon. He's owned a sbk in the past, and he's probably annoyed at all the desi bikers who dole out strong advice about the power and the practicality and the danger of a superbike without owning an sbk themselves.

He can take care of himself on a Bullock cart or on a Ducati.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

[MENTION=41053]jeevan.chaukar[/MENTION] brother, your hard work and time taken for such a nice and useful reply will be of utmost importance to all the potential sbk first timers surely. the points you have described in details in last few posts will be very very useful for the novice seeking help at the forum. you summed it up pretty perfectly. kindly note that such a description was very much needed.
thinking in line with op, forum members' responses (before you chipped in with your experienced words) about whether he should take step by step approach or take a jump from 20odd bhp to 120+ps were a bit confusing for sure and i have lately seen lot of similar threads everywhere getting into this dilemma. just a simple reply like 'dont leap' or 'do it, lot of people did it successfully' would only add to confusion if it was not backed by solid reasoning which was provided for the first time by you on our forum. thats why i thought this discussion is quite pertinent here. although what you explained deserves to be in that superbike sticky thread truly. a rider , sbk beginner trying to take a call about step by step or leap approach should, in the end remember, both the approaches are okay provided one knows what he is signing up for.
on this topic, i would like to add a few words of my own in addition to what you have said just to clear more air.
1. utilising the potentials and upgrading step by step. -
this step by step upgrade is certainly vouched for by pioneer riding schools such as CSS. however that advise is totally correct for track applications. on track, a novice on his supersport or maxi or hypersport repeatedly bites dust off good riders on 390. its happening here on indian tracks as we read this.
the whole reason this advise came up was because its much more easier to master throttle braking and body positioning on a lighter smaller less powerful bike. once you get good on track on such machine, you can upgrade. this is why you can tell a track rider from the list of his upgrades - lighter wheels, flywheels , race ecu s etc. against cosmetic ones.
how would you know that this bike lacks power and you need more powerful ride?? if you can hit its top speed much before the braking point on longest straight.
needless to say, this can never be done on streets. you will never be able to utilise any potential of any bike on streets because street riding is different from track riding as in the goals of riding are different. you are not hitting any straights after an apex. the first and foremost goal on street being avoiding any mishap. and this brings us to next point-
2. direct leap.-
on tracks a direct leap will only hinder your growth as a rider because you have to deal with more weight ( ultralight moto gp bikes are not up for sale.) , more sensitive throttle and braking inputs and much more aggressive riding position that makes you numb in 10 minutes hindering your reflexes and worst part is you d realise it only when you need to brake /shift urgently and your fingers/ankle arent moving . gradually getting used to things on less aggressive bikes will help on track for sure. but on streets??
well you can try a leap if your riding will strictly remain on streets. i personally strongly vouch a track session because it will kill your curiosity of going fast preventing you from taking unnecessary risks on streets. that aside if you still wish to take a leap remember- its not okay to be on a big bike as an absolute first timer. you basically learn riding on smaller easier vehicles.
now why is a leap not a crime on streets- because street riding has to be safe riding and safe riding isn t just about your control on a given bike - big or small. there are 2 components of safe riding.
1. having good control on your bike- this will not only include which bike you ride but also how well maintained your bike is.
2. having an understanding of unsafe and risky scenarios- now this is something largely independent of what bike you ride disclaimer being some rides are better balanced,sprung and calipered. still if its unsafe at 40km on a residential street, for any rider, the range of safe speed would only be around 10kmph- means risk being equal on a drum brake activa at 35 and disc equipped r15 at 45kmph approx. and in no way would double discs of an sbk mean its safe to ride at 60kmph on very same stretch. by years of experience all you gain is whether its safe at 25kmph or fast/risky at 15. the basics of safety margins wont change only few factors would. like if you have a loud exhaust with that deep throaty sound on your big bike, people would be more guarded and allow you better margin of safety as you pass which translates to a little higher safe speed range.
if you wonder why am i discussing sub par speeds in a thread of ultra fast bikes- its because you can choose not to ride fast on your sbk. but you cant help riding slow on congested streets no matter what bike you have. this skill would be much more useful in day to day life on any bike.
now coming to the other end of performance range- everyones favourite- riding fast.
people often mistake highways to be safe for fast riding. in india they never are. apart from a stray puppy or a jaywalker, even the fast bmw may cut lane throwing your lines for a toss. its only a bit safer around the speeds of general traffic on a particular road.
but why did i need to sum up these factors about safe riding here which are already on forum? its because-
http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/art-safe-riding/

look at the number of threads, replies and views on those very old threads and compare them with threads about sbk and you would understand.
basically a lot of sbk wisdom floating online is borrowed from west which misses out on few things specific to india.
in our zeal to talk about superbikes we forget a lot of things that are very basic for a seasoned rider here in india. someone who got on his first sbk after years of riding on indian roads may be quite accomplished about the component 2 listed above and would pick up superbike riding quite fast, say withinn a few thousand kms or even less. however for a young less traveled guy, he should understand that no matter how good your reflexes, the sixth sense developed after years of riding here is incomparable.
i hope this clears a lot of air about this leap vs step by step upgrade i hope.
and i d advise everyone who is interested in sbk and preparing to be an sbk rider should go through these safe riding threads.
senior riders on forum walk a very thin line between guiding the prospective riders and scaring them. your posts are a delight to read and spoke volumes for a lot of confused souls i am sure.
i thank you profusely for taking out time to help others genuinely and sorry if it was me who made you do that.
i would wish some mod moves your posts maybe here - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/art-safe...ing-india.html or here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...-way-life.html so more members could benefit off your hard work.
thanks. [MENTION=49558]acdc[/MENTION] anybody willing to be a better rider and wishes to keep riding until ripe old age should take his fitness seriously. cycling and swimming are 2 exercises that dont put pressure on your knees and are boon for riders over 3rd decade of life working hard to keep fit so they could do another leh /ladakh. no true biker would ever ridicule them or look at them condescendingly. be grateful to splendor riders. if everyone could afford a sbk, one wouldnt grow up dreaming of them. [MENTION=58594]leech[/MENTION] most owners sell their ducatis in 2 3 4 5 years. find me a farmer who does that to his bulls.

Re: Help me buy a superbike

Well doc (assuming that you are a surgeon as your handle suggests) I strongly advise you to attend CSS they will clear all your doubts regarding upgrades and you will know what they teach you over there not just applies to track but to your daily riding (doesn't matter if it's a 50cc scooter or a litre class) as well. I have attended one in California and it is an eye opener for all kind of riders with 'n' numbers of riding experience. No amount of reasoning I or other members give you may be sufficient to decide how to go about upgrading or taking a leap. So attend one (Go all out to book when they come to India).

Now coming to my splendour comment. With the kind of road conditions you have in Indore (as your location suggests) is quite a good bike to move around. I am not sure how you arrived to the conclusion that i said splendour riders are bad or to be looked down upon.
Even I am nearing 40's and have been involved with bikes since I was 15 so i know a little bit of both riding and the amount of fitness(strong lower back) required in 3rd decade of life for all the fun stuff.

Go through this page some posts do throw light on why to upgrade and not take leap. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/superb...orcycle-4.html

Cheers!

P.S: I am an engineer but not an electrical one, though I work for an automobile company that makes premium electric cars and ACDC is my fav band.