Engine Oils

[gotlo]

Very informative post there. Make a lot od sense. However the more I learn about engine oil, someone would throw spanner on my notion and pffftt .

I have come to understand that GENERALLY it is recommended to use for example w40/50 in hot climate, and use w20/30 in cold climate. The post above, its says w50 will generate more heat.
Then why higher number are recommended for hotter climate? Oh yeah I read and understand about the engine design and tolerance and stuff like that. But my question arises because most information related to engine oil would recommend lower viscosity for cold climate and higher viscosity for hotter climate. Why?

exactly my question. also, if w50 generates more heat than w40 then how come pulsars, which are known to generate more heat than counterparts, advised to use w50 instead of w40???

[gotlo]

haha you really like to change the name in english-hindi and back huh . Where do you stay???...We can look out together as I'm going to buy a lid.

pardon me but your names do sound very 'changeable' .. i got new gloves (some pro-biker brand) as my older ones had got torn, will upload pics later.. as for the lid, i did go to my helemt shop in karol bagh to get my 'summer' visor, i should have read this thread earlier, would have got in touch with you before going... anyway.
and finaly you motul guy did speak with me over the phone, he gave me an adress near ashram, will go on satrday/sunday . Im very glad coz he said "mineral bhi hai w50 rating ka.."
btw, i stay in kalkaji

[sarbanoxley]

Very informative post there. Make a lot od sense. However the more I learn about engine oil, someone would throw spanner on my notion and pffftt .

I have come to understand that GENERALLY it is recommended to use for example w40/50 in hot climate, and use w20/30 in cold climate. The post above, its says w50 will generate more heat.
Then why higher number are recommended for hotter climate? Oh yeah I read and understand about the engine design and tolerance and stuff like that. But my question arises because most information related to engine oil would recommend lower viscosity for cold climate and higher viscosity for hotter climate. Why?

Its from a DUCATI forum the author himself is running a air cooled bike which has a recommended grade of 10W 40 here is what the author says in one of his posts:

No, for those with a 20W-50 designation by Ducati, by all means run Mfg recommendation.. Mine says 10W-40 and for those whose manual says 10W-40....... (however, methinks this 20W-50 recent recommendation changge is related to Shell's Ducati racing sponsorship and Shell's not making a 10W-40 full synthetic motorcycle oil... Woops, lets change that manual to read 20W-50 don't want to be recommending an oil our sponsor doesn't make!)
Like with Ford and Honda discovering the glitch in CAFE fuel mileage that enabled huge paper gains in corporate cafe by merely switching from a 5W-30 to a 5W-20 engine oil. Millions of dollars of engineering could not equal what the stroke of a pen achieved...

exactly my question. also, if w50 generates more heat than w40 then how come pulsars, which are known to generate more heat than counterparts, advised to use w50 instead of w40???

Sir i request you to go through the whole thread if you have the time i have provided the link in my post... your question is answered somewhere in that thread i think this post by the author will help you though:

I realize all this viscosity business is confusing but I will answer questions till the cows come home so you can have a good understanding of this very important point. Yes, you are correct in that we could call Mobil 1 MX4T a straight grade 40W, like the old mineral base straight grades. EXCEPT that we no longer can speak of mineral base chemistry.. Full synthetics, especially Group IV and V oils have an extremely stable natural viscosity characteristic. This actually is quantifiable in its measurement of Viscosity Index. (NOT viscosity, a different term here) A high quality mineral based oil will have a natural Viscosity Index (referred here on as VI) of say 96. 100 is the highest and the bestest best suite crude enables this level. We can now enhance the natural VI by adding our VI improvers from our previous discussionw. Now the enhanced VI for this same oil can be measured at 145 to 150. The higher the VI the more temperature stable the oil is. Now, untreated synthetic group IV or group V will have a natural VI as high as 190, revealing its incredible temperature stable viscosity over a broad temperature range.
Thus, with Mobil 1 MXT, it is made with a 40W base stock yet meets the API testing requirement for cold flow of a 10W. (actually almost a 0W but could you imagine how many folks would buy a 0W-40 motorcycle oill? None.. TOO Thin!!)
This all requires a paradigm shift in thinking in translating Group IV or Group V chemistry from mineral base. The whole API XXW-40 rating program was geared to multi-viscosity mineral based oils..
With synthetics it is a whole different program. Another example of the disparity. A 10W-40 mineral
based oil will be a sollid at around 20 degrees below zero F. Yet the Mobil 1 MX4T still flows freely at 40 below zero F!
Hope I am cleariing the air, if not keep the questions coming..
And yes, for the person who has run a 15W-50 in his/her engine.. No problem. I am just a nit picking lube engineer sharing information. As with Ducati, oil/lubrication is a personal issue. My quest is sharing sound lubrication principles so all can make an informed choice.

An excellent question, regarding viscosity spreads. With a mineral based oil, the further the spread, the more susceptible the oil will be to viscosity improver shear, shock, etc. VI improver shock is a very real, temporary condition, an almost smashing of the VI improver. With a large amount of VI improver this can lead to spalling, high wear rates, especially in engine/gearbox combinations such as ours. With a full synthetic, depending on the sophistication of the base stock, minimal VI improver use provides for a very shear-resistant lubricant. Even in a 10W-40 spread, it is possible to achieve this performance through base stock choice alone. However, as I said previously, in large scale production small amounts of very high quality VI improvers may be used to provide a greater margin of assurance that the end products will far surpass API classification. The "expensivie" VI improvers are extremely shear resistant and when combined with a high quality synthetic base stock are synergistic in their bottom line performance. Additionally there are new base stocks which are blended with normal group IV and V which provide the same physical action as VI improvers but are completely impervious to shear and provide chemistry enhancement to the base stocks in terms of film strength, oxidation resistance and overall performance.

Regarding semi-synehtic engine oil vs. your regular full synthetic. There should be no operational problems. However, in oils, as in chains, the weakest link determines the total strength of the chain/oil and with the mineral oil component, we have a weak link. Mineral based oils, as previously discussed, do not have a natural viscosity index, oxidation resistance, film strength and purity of a synthetic base stock. Thus, a synthetic blend contains a component of lower performance capability.

The other issue is that there is no qualification or accepted standard of exactly what constitutes a "synthetic blend". ie a synthetic blend could contain as little as .0001% synthetic base oil (and that could be a group III) and can legally be referred to as a "synthetic blend".
As we have seen, a synthetic based engine oil may not be a "real" synthetic at all; with a synthetic blend, it is anybody's guess as to what its components are.
However, there should be no conflicts of chemistries with the oils. Just performance levels.


Regarding higher viscosity oils and shock loading. Yes, this is correct and there *is* an engine application where a higher viscosity engine oil is applicable. In a gasoline engine when ignition occurs, it is a burn process. In a diesel engine, the combustion process is just that; a very violent "explosion" vs. the burn process of a gasoline powered engine. Thus diesel engines require a higher viscosity engine oil which will provide "cushioning" for the connecting rod and main bearings. This is why diesel engines use a XXW-40 viscosity engine oil. The use of multi-viscosity engine oils which allowed the application of higher viscosities in engine operating temperatures was one of the single most important advancements in enabling the extension of diesel engine life.
A multi-grade 50 weight oil, especially a group IV or Group V synthetic, will certainly provide a much higher level of lubrication, especially on startup. As per our previous discussions, a 15W-50 full synthetic such as Mobil 1 V-Twin is essentially a 50W oil that just happens to flow to 40F below zero... Thus this type of oil is capable of immediate flow, pumpability, and optimal lubrication immediately, irrespective of ambient temperatures. Additionally the Group IV or Group V synthetic will provide higher viscosity, superior lubrication at elevated operating temperatures.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

Thanks.
Great Information, Cleared my 90% of queries.

Glad that helped.

@sarbanoxley - Very informative article. Thanks for sharing!

Glad to hear that.

Guys i combined 2-3 posts of the author into a single post as i felt it would make the authors views easy to fathom seems like it confuses a few here so i apologize for that and request all to go through the thread instead.

[gotlo]

@sarbanoxley

clearer now still i found certain explanations slightly contradictory

very informative though and a great read, thanks a lot buddy

[abhibhaskar]

sarbanoxley
masterate a degree for the guru of oil.....

[umeshkumawatsa]

hi guys,

Have a query that can i switch to semi synthetic on my fz16 snd the only option is shell vsx 4t because its the only semi synt i am getting in my city jaipur. So guys plz help.

[RanjithMN]

if you have finished your run in,yes you can go for semi synth but make sure its a xxW40 grade.

[umeshkumawatsa]

if you have finished your run in,yes you can go for semi synth but make sure its a xxW40 grade.

Well i have completed 3.5 k kms on my fz16 so should i switch to synthtic or smi-synthetic.

[RanjithMN]

you can switch to any,i personally believe tht Semi synth is more than enough.

[qwerty_rm]

Help Regarding Synthetic Oil Usage!

Can Any1 tell me wat is the Maximum Kilometers one can Ride continuously for without another Oil change for the Pulsar 220 DTSi having Motul 300V as its Engine Oil.....!?!?!?!?

[sarbanoxley]

Finally Motul 5100 10W 40 semi synthetic (100 Liters) is on its way to chennai from france

[chicane1879]

Finally Motul 5100 10W 40 semi synthetic (100 Liters) is on its way to chennai from france

Do they have any plans of launching the product here in India!!

[onlinesatish]

Do they have any plans of launching the product here in India!!

Its already launched rite? I had purchased 1 can for my RTR, 350bucks! gave it to the SVC ppl to fill it in after they are done with servicing my RTR

[chicane1879]

Its already launched rite? I had purchased 1 can for my RTR, 350bucks! gave it to the SVC ppl to fill it in after they are done with servicing my RTR

Nops, dude. He is talking about 10W40. The one we have is 15W50.

[rennycornelius]

i bought a can of PETRONAS SPRINTA 5000 for 300 bucks but it's a year old oil, any probs with a year old oil??