Engine Oils

[sarans]

Which is the best engine oil for pulsar 220 dtsi..????

[tija]

Which is the best engine oil for pulsar 220 dtsi..????

it's Motul 5100

[AntiqueBlue]

Query

I recently bought Motul 300 V fully Synthetic, had already used it once in Pulsar 180, so again went for it, but after putting the oil in , I saw, there was no rating given on can, I mean no JASOMA properties as recommended by BAJAJ. Is it that it is not written or can or we cannot use it in pulsar 180 >?

[muztariq]

sir Motul 300V is a full synthetic combination of PAO based oil and Ester Based Oil its from Its MSDS European Country doesnt consider Group III oil as a Synthetic the semisynthetic motul 5100 is 70% group III 20% Ester based this is been sell to europe as a semisynthetic but if this is been manufactured in US this will be called Fully synthetic The oil im talking about is ELF MOTO SPORT4 CAMPIONE this is considered racing oil here in philippines 10w60 grade i read its MSDS its 85%-95% PAO based and its cheap for a PAO based oil slightly higher kinematic vicosity from standard of 50 grade usually 16.5-21.9cp but the Elf campione have 22.4cp @ 100 deg celsius almost 0.5 cp difference HTHS is high almost same performance and SPEC of AMSOIL and MOBIL 1 V-TWin! Pls search to web about i think this is good for a bike with nmanufacturer recommendation of 20w50 because it is the only motorcycle oil in the market(as i know) that has 10w60 and most motorcycle is running at 20w50 grade the question is for what kind of motorcycle grade they make this oil?

its not correct to compare viscosity range of one oil like 16.9 to 21 etc and the value of another.. The kinematic viscosity at 100deg is around 18 for w50 and 24 for w60.. A big difference.. This gives an indication to what value your oil may thin.. That doesnot mean that your oil will thin to that value at operating temp. It will depend on your engines cc, type (air or fluid cooled), ambient temp you are riding in etc. The oil may be made for very high cc 'racing' engine which achieve that temp all the time throught its life. Its not for regular commuting 135 cc bike (unless you want to rev it hard always) even tho its mentioned on the label that it can be used for regular usage but i doubt.. Please share the msds from where you are getting this info especially a european msds of motul 300v and elf you are talking about.

I recently bought Motul 300 V fully Synthetic, had already used it once in Pulsar 180, so again went for it, but after putting the oil in , I saw, there was no rating given on can, I mean no JASOMA properties as recommended by BAJAJ. Is it that it is not written or can or we cannot use it in pulsar 180 >?

its api sg alone, then also its ok.. You can use this oil in a pulsar.

[aargee]

The kinematic viscosity at 100deg is around 18 for w50 and 24 for w60.. A big difference.. This gives an indication to what value your oil may thin..

This provokes a question to me, appreciate if you can help me understand;

What can I make out from this kinematic viscosity? This helps to indicate to what value the oil can thin? Right, but, what can I infer from it? Means, what useful data can I extract from thinning OR where can use this number to determine what factor? Does it always mean higher the number, higher the kinematic viscosity?

[muztariq]

This provokes a question to me, appreciate if you can help me understand;

What can I make out from this kinematic viscosity? This helps to indicate to what value the oil can thin? Right, but, what can I infer from it? Means, what useful data can I extract from thinning OR where can use this number to determine what factor? Does it always mean higher the number, higher the kinematic viscosity?

an oil should have three main qualities :
1. It should start protection from the word go.
2. It should continue protection throughout the operation.
3. It should come back to the sump and keep suspending the matter it has collected or the matter it itself produces on degradation.

1 and 2 are worth discussing.
1. The value before w like 5w decides what is the viscosity when you crank the engine at a specific temp in which your vehicle is parked.. Better evaluated by measuring cranking viscosity.
2. The value after w decides what will the viscosity be as the engine moves and heat is generated.. Measured at 100deg celcius for our engines.
Also some parts in the engine move very fast and heat generated is e very high than the other parts, actually other parts get heated just because these high shear areas are generating heat which in turn is getting taken up by the oil.. And being circulated to parts which may never have been heated.. Those high shear areas have temp much higher as i said, for these areas another viscosity test is conducted on the oil called high shear rate test, for them also a limit is present.. Its conducted at 105 deg C. Whereas kinematic vis. Is done at 100 deg C.
Kinematic viscosity for various oil grades like w30 w40 w50 keeps on increasing with grades.. Which means that the oil will not thin below this level (as defined in the limits for w40 etc.) hence a w50 will not thin below a particular level and will remain in min 16.3 and max 21.9 range at 100deg celcius.. Hence an oil of w60 may be very thick in comparison with w50 at temp below 100.. Tho at 100 they are 24 vs 18 respectively.

Refer this link towatds the end of the page you will find sae j 300 specs - www.tribology-abc.com/abc/viscosity.htm

so if you have a kinematic viscosity at 100 deg availabke with you.. You can straight away tell what wXX grade it belong after comparing the value mentioned in the list i provided.. But it will only tell you the wXX grade, like sae straight weight w40 oil will have same range as 15w40 etc.. But it cant tell you the cranking viscosity.. i.e value before w.

[Pinaki]

... European Country doesnt consider Group III oil as a Synthetic the semisynthetic motul 5100 is 70% group III 20% ...

Andrei , if Motul 5100 15w50 is readily available to your there cheaply ... use it in your Pulsar135LS ... trust me, you'll not regret it .

[Pinaki]

...Kinematic viscosity for various oil grades like w30 w40 w50 keeps on increasing with grades.. Which means that the oil will not thin below this level (as defined in the limits for w40 etc.) hence a w50 will not thin below a particular level and will remain in min 16.3 and max 21.9 range at 100deg celcius.. Hence an oil of w60 may be very thick in comparison with w50 at temp below 100.. Tho at 100 they are 24 vs 18 respectively...

Get this very clear .. Alldoes not

[muztariq]

Get this very clear .. All

i am getting each and every thing you are saying.. But you are completely misunderstanding me..
I am saying kinematic viscosity of w30 is less than w40 than w50 and the like.. Read sae j 300 specifications which i have linked.. You will get to know what i am saying..
At 100deg celcius a w40 or a straight weight 40 will have 12.5 - 16.3 sq. Mm/sec whereas w50 is 16.3 - 21.9 sq mm/ sec.. Clearly viscosity of w50 at 100 deg celcius is more than w40..
Its mentioned kinematic viscosity there and no density etc. .
You will realize what i am talking about, once you stop considering me a fool! And read the post with an open mind!!
All oils thin with temp.. Whats new in it.. But 10w40 will thin more than 10w60!! And thinning is clearly viscosity sir!! Read sae j 300 spec please..

[muztariq]

What it does not[/QUOTE]
dear pinakiji the above post by you is completely wrong.. Wrongest it can get..
Kinematic viscosity at 100 deg celcius is same for 5w40, 10w40, 20w40 and straight weight 40!! Check whatever document you can.. Check MSDS of 5w40 10w40 and 20w40, those will all lie between the staright weight kinematic viscosity given for straight weight 40 oil given in sae j 300 spec i have attached. To make it easier for you they all will lie between 12.5 to 16.3 sq mm/s.

[Pinaki]

completely wrong.. Wrongest it can get..
Kinematic viscosity at 100 deg celcius is same for 5w40, 10w40, 20w40 and straight weight 40!! Check whatever document you can.. Check MSDS of 5w40 10w40 and 20w40, those will all lie between the staright weight kinematic viscosity given for straight weight 40 oil given in sae j 300 spec i have attached. To make it easier for you they all will lie between 12.5 to

..All oils thin with temp.. Whats new in it.. But 10w40 will thin more than 10w60!! And thinning is clearly viscosity sir!! Read sae j 300 spec please..

You are again confusing and using the words thin/thick interchangeable with viscosity . Thinning is not the same as reduction in viscosity . Thinning means a reduction of density . Density is not directly related to viscosity in physics . Viscosity is measured from flow in fluids . There are many substances that flow better than far less dense ones .
No no , please don't get me wrong .. I am just telling you what I have learned in elementary physics class ... nothing personal .

completely wrong.. Wrongest it can get..
Kinematic viscosity at 100 deg celcius is same for 5w40, 10w40, 20w40 and straight weight 40!! Check whatever document you can..

[muztariq]

You are again confusing and using the words thin/thick interchangeable with viscosity . Thinning is not the same as reduction in viscosity .

[Pinaki]

the problem .

[muztariq]

the problem .

lubrication is a complex science. How will you tell which is better lubricant - by conducting tests!
Which tests will you conduct - flow, spreadability, density, viscosity, uniformity of particle size, high temp flow, high temp density, pumping viscosity, pourability, ash value tests, emulsifiability etc etc..
What tests does sae grade oils consider- 1) cranking viscosity 2) pumping viscosity 3) kinematic viscosity 4) high shear viscosity.
The manufacturer of engines tests various grade of these oils and eventually select a particular grade for his engine.
If a layman selects the same grade like 20w40, which the company specified, without going into material science his engine is 'sufficiently lubricated'. Of course a synthetic group v will be better lubricant than group iv than group iii than group ii... But as per a standard which is set and worldwide accepted a 20w40 no matter what it contains has suffient lubricating properties for my engine. Hence a 5w40 or 10w40or 20w40 at operating temperatures are equally good as per the standard.. You can tests them for 100more tests and prove anyone as superior just based on the quality of oil it has.. Maybe a group v 20w40 will be better than a mineral 10w40.. We cant say just by looking at the multigrade value which is better! I am just just comparing oils with the worldwide recognised standard of sae thats it.. And for me a straight weight 40, 10w40, 20w40 are equivalent lubricants at operating temperature, and that conclusion comes when i compare the kinematic viscosity.
If i compare two same grade oils on emulsification properties alone the one which has better surfactant wins the race.. And the one which does not have a surfactant will always come last in the list no matter it is made by mobil!
If i compare antioxidant properties same thing is applicable.
Does the engine manufacturer consider all this and ask you to check that from a msds that what amount of x it contain or what amount of y it has!? NO. He just gives you sae ratings.. As that specific grade he has tested and is 'sufficiently good' lubricant. If an oil manufacturer modifies water to meet those specs.. No issues!

The denser or viscous the oil does not mean better lubricant..
My manufacturer recommends 20w40and 20w50.. But fills 20w40all the time, everytime why? Denser or more viscous flows less.. Will take more time to convey heat to the fins.. He should always fill 20w50as per your logic. I agree if clearances can take any, w50 will protect more as its film would be stronger but we have to consider everything and flowability should be prioritised hence w40 is better and thats what it fills up on priority in my engine.
It all depends on clearances.. If i use denser oil and it cant lubricate the clearances of my enfine its of no use.. Very thin will end up in combustion chamber. A straight weight oil without viis will be equivalent in protection at operating temp but that will fail to protect in cold starts hence these multigrade oil.. They are thin easily flowable at cold temp but as the temp rises start thinning and may thin so much so to land in combustion chamber thats why viis are added so that they behave like a straight weight oil at operating temp.. Viis are calculated and only that much is added which will make it as viscous as a straight weight oil at that temp (100deg and 40deg usually)

you should have a standard to compare varios oils and sae is just ome of them.. And i repeat as per that standard a straight weight 40, 5w40, 10w40 or 20w40 are equivalent at 100deg cel.

You dont add viis to make it flow less!! Better flow better the lubricant(w40 flows better than w50, same logic as above), You add viis so that your better cold lubricant(base oil) dont thin a lot to land up in combustion chamber..
Same thing as you meant buy different way of saying it.

[andrei79]

its not correct to compare viscosity range of one oil like 16.9 to 21 etc and the value of another.. The kinematic viscosity at 100deg is around 18 for w50 and 24 for w60.. A big difference.. This gives an indication to what value your oil may thin.. That doesnot mean that your oil will thin to that value at operating temp. It will depend on your engines cc, type (air or fluid cooled), ambient temp you are riding in etc. The oil may be made for very high cc 'racing' engine which achieve that temp all the time throught its life. Its not for regular commuting 135 cc bike (unless you want to rev it hard always) even tho its mentioned on the label that it can be used for regular usage but i doubt.. Please share the msds from where you are getting this info especially a european msds of motul 300v and elf you are talking about.



its api sg alone, then also its ok.. You can use this oil in a pulsar.

sir the msds you can just search to the net i just give you the data sheet