Engine Oils

[psr]

ok.. The next level is here..
Dear sir, please dont mind me calling you sir, this is actually for the respect you have gained in my heart by helping so many new ppl out here.
Thanks for the complement..hope I earn it some time in future.
No matter how hard a scientist try he cant make an engine oil for wet clutch bikes in the range 0w40 at all.
There are Motorcycle engine oils of 0w40.
Bike oils are made with some friction..
No not true...
If you use a pure ester like you use in car oils the friction will be extremely low and the clutch will start slipping. Do you kniw how much ester Motul 300v has - not more than 30%.. I read it somewhere.
Check Motul 300V 4 T factory line 10w40..it is double ester..more ester in oil.
If oil companies try to make a fully synthetic oil with 0w rating they will have to add friction gainers and not reducers.. Some oil companies are doing that..
No Not true.
Castrol power 1 fully synthetic and even ss has those.. Thats why this oil gives better acceleration. The oil is thin, flows faster and and the friction improvers do there work by imparting friction to the clutch.
If the oil has friction enhancers then it cannot flow fast but less than normal..
Resulting in more power.. As the oil is smooth in nature loss in fuel efficiency is not that much.. But stll there is a loss, hence all synthetics increase fuel efficiency by a margin but this oil decreases.. I read somewhere that the fuel efficiency of an fz got as low as 20 wheres the fe was 38 before he used this oil.
Its not just viscosity modifiers and VIIs in a car oil which makes it different from bike oils..
I had mentioned "Friction Modifiers"
Bike oils should contain ZDDP which is a vital ingredient for engine protection.. Car oils with catalytic converters cant use them..
ZDDP world wide is being reduced..including in oils meant for old engines like Castrol GTX.
As car oils do not face a lot of heat challenge there ambient temperatures, running duration, ample viacosity all changes.. Hence the graph you have shown is ouut of place.
There are Air cooled Car engines which outperform the LC engines on every level including reliability..Please search for info and you will be surprised to see who manufactures it.There is a Car with Air cooled engine , which had sold the maximum in number in the world.
Bikes ambient temperatures are way different from the one shown in that graph.. If i bo by that graph 10w40 is the best oil for the deserts where 42deg is reached nearly daily.. But the best oil available in India for that climate is 15w50. Mobil which makes grades like 0w40 for cars cant make a 5w30 for bikes as the moment he tries, the oil will have no viscosity at all - even after adding pour point depressants.. And that oil will kill the clutch as early as a hundred kms.. Just some days back a person had a query on the fz forum here, that his clutch has died after 1600km on total quartz energy 9000 which i was talkng about some posts back.
Just have a look at the outdoor temperatures given in this link.. It appears you can use any oil for 20-100 deg celcius.. But its for cars, sadly.
Quick Valvoline and Mobile1 Oil Change and Lube at Taggart & Sons Automotive Repair

Replies in bold

[psr]

I Have seen a mechanic using diesel engine oils in bikes and those bike owners dont have any complains or issues..
reply's in bold

Diesel engine oils are more stable under stress,and in a petrol engine will work well....They have higher detergent levels,and can cope with higher compression and heat stress .
The oil I was mentioning which is universally accepted for Motorcycle,Cars,and other vehicles using both Gasoline or Diesel is the Shell Rotella T. It qualifies in both API ,and JASO MA specs

http://www-static.shell.com/static/can-en/downloads/products_services/lubricants/rotella/rotella_triple_protection.pdf

[muztariq]

Replies in bold

Regarding Shell Rotella!!

Here is the email from a Rotella engineer that I found on the Shell forums.

"We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.

All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA."

If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950.
Thank you for your interest in Shell products."

Richard Moore
Staff Engineer
Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.

Source: Rotella "T" JASO/MA Certified - Bob Is The Oil Guy


Clearly.. the moment shell made 5W40 grade.. it failed in “ash test” and this oil cant be used in bikes.. Bike oil should pass the JASO MA or MA2 test.. some ppl used car oils in bikes and results were disastrous!



Another point: Yes some oils are available as racing 4t oils in 0W40 and 5W40.. you know what is there life - around 400 km in racing bike and max. 800 km in racing cars


Source: FAQs for Oil Products


What is the drain interval with Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50?Oil drain intervals in racing conditions can vary widely. Depending on specific racing applications and conditions, intervals of 500 miles or more are attainable. When determining the correct interval at these extreme conditions, used oil quality should be monitored as each application and environment can be different.
Clearly mobil guys saying 500 miles.. it is even lower I promise ;-)


Another point: the synthetic oils have friction enhancers for clutch protection. Oil is very thin and flows fast by default.. but some amount of friction enhancer protects the clutch..

Another point: Motul 300V whether you call double ester or triple ester does contain very less ester.. its a marketing gimmick. If in any oil 100% exter is present it will qualify 0W rating.

Another point: ZDDP is reduced or increased i never said that.. MC oils contain Zinc and Phos. that was my point

Source: Same mobil 1 source mentioned above

It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the three Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:
Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).

And I just quoted that and the replies went OT

Another point: Regarding common oils for cars and bikes.. yes there are I never said there isnt any.. but I said they are different.. if you can compromise on Zinc and Phosphorus content you try them.. but it should not be energy conserving otherwise friction reducers will kill the clutch.

Thanks for the replies..

Thanks Honda CBF for the Celcius correction.

Please backup your point with references.. it becomes sometime very difficult to search the same thing ;-)

Just to read more.. Motul 300V 9another grade) contains less than 1.4% ZDDP which is the limit!!

attaching the file: Oh.. couldnt attach file.. here is the link

http://motul-canada.com/en/products/products_info/Engine_oil/CAR_Engine_Oil_Motorsport/300V_15W50/300V_Competition_15W50_TDS.pdf

[psr]

Please backup your point with references.. it becomes sometime very difficult to search the same thing ;-)

I rest further post from my side...

[muztariq]

I rest further post from my side...

dear sir, it was a genuine request with a smile.. There was nothing even near to sarcastic..
As in your earlier post you mentioned 0w40 oil is available, i kept searching but couldnt find one.. If you would have just mentioned the name.. Forget about reference.. :-) as i dont know how to insert smilies here.. all we have to do with this :-)
Cheers. Waiting for your reply..

[aargee]

i kept searching but couldnt find one

Ever used Google?

[Pinaki]

Diesel engine oils are more stable under stress,and in a petrol engine will work well....They have higher detergent levels,and can cope with higher compression and heat stress .
The oil I was mentioning which is universally accepted for Motorcycle,Cars,and other vehicles using both Gasoline or Diesel is the Shell Rotella T. It qualifies in both API ,and JASO MA specs ..

I am pretty cross with shell for not releasing Rotella here . It would have been such a good general purpose oil . Shell is not currently selling it outside of USA afaik , since it's so popular there that their domestic demand consumes all they can make .
One more interesting thing I see is that the shell AX3 is API SG rated oil , it's the only SG rated motorcycle oils here , or am I mistaken ?

...I Have seen a mechanic using diesel engine oils in bikes and those bike owners dont have any complains or issues..

Common practice in suburban and rural India . Which means the vast majority of bikes out there probably . I'm gonna to try it once someday .

[aargee]

it's the only SG rated motorcycle oils here , or am I mistaken ?

Sir, is SG, the latest certification from SAE?

[Pinaki]

No No , it's an older obsolete API service-category , unsuitable for use in modern cat-con equipped car engines as they say , still approved for motorcycle engines ; which means it contains loads of ZDDP anti-wear additive .

[aargee]

Reason to ask is because, Motul engine oil exceeds the current SAE standards & I guess its SAE SJ. But if you're specific to SG, then, yes, you're right probably, only SHELL supplies it I guess.

[muztariq]

Ever used Google?

its a car oil buddy.. Welcome to the debate.
MOTUL 8100 E-tech Synthetic Motor Oil (5L), Motul Oil, Motul E-tech, Motul 0w40

it seems you are misusing google..

regarding your SG query..
API standards are increasing alphabetically API SA , SB, SC, etc with some missing alphabets, present ratings were SN.. These get updated every three years to accomodate the changing motor oil requirement scenario. Next update would be somewhere in 2013..

If you are using a bike oil its always better to have a look at JASO MA / MA2 Ratings.. If only API ratings are present confirm from label that it is a bike oil or not.. You can use API SG rated oils without any confirmation.. Motul 300v shows API SG on label.. Not sure about Jaso.

[shoeb2015]

Common practice in suburban and rural India . Which means the vast majority of bikes out there probably . I'm gonna to try it once someday .

Wont there be any clutch slippage ?
I am asking because I have a Litre of Castrol GTD 15w40 in the car's boot and wondering if can be used it in the bike

[WarpSpeed]

i Motul 300v shows API SG on label.. Not sure about Jaso.

Its JASO-MA With the new labeling its going to be probably JASO-MA2 soon...

[psr]

dear sir, it was a genuine request with a smile.. There was nothing even near to sarcastic..
As in your earlier post you mentioned 0w40 oil is available, i kept searching but couldnt find one.. If you would have just mentioned the name.. Forget about reference.. :-) as i dont know how to insert smilies here.. all we have to do with this :-)
Cheers. Waiting for your reply..

Lucas 0w40 synthetic motorcycle oil and Amsoil 0w40
link to Amsoil..

AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke Power Sports 0W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil

I am pretty cross with shell for not releasing Rotella here . It would have been such a good general purpose oil . Shell is not currently selling it outside of USA afaik , since it's so popular there that their domestic demand consumes all they can make .
One more interesting thing I see is that the shell AX3 is API SG rated oil , it's the only SG rated motorcycle oils here , or am I mistaken ?
Common practice in suburban and rural India . Which means the vast majority of bikes out there probably . I'm gonna to try it once someday .

My next change may be the shell Rimula for trial purpose...

Sir, is SG, the latest certification from SAE?

It is SL and SM

Its JASO-MA With the new labeling its going to be probably JASO-MA2 soon...

MA2 is already here...

[WarpSpeed]

MA2 is already here...

You mean Motul 300v 10w-40 with Jaso-MA2 label is already selling... they dont even list it on their website but just as JASO MA
Welcome to Motul

Can you upload a pic or link so I can talk to distributors here.....

Sorry if you wrote about other ranges in 300v