Engine Oils

[WarpSpeed]

JASO Specs does not work as you have said.. Neither was the MA spec bifurcated.. Two different grades in addition to MA was added.

Not really... See table 2.1 here Page 3

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV0604.pdf

what you will see is MA limits and then MA1 limits+MA2 limits covering the MA range. So...effectively they subdivided MA into MA1 and MA2 with the range what MA had.... different way to see it...

But then again I am not chemical engineer but a normal user with some interest in it...

Its for the consumer to decide which oil he wants to buy.. MA, MA1, MA2 or MB(for dry clutch bikes, not seen in India).

Not really again the case everywhere. For warranty purpose, I am supposed to run MA2. Thats why the hesitation was there to use 300v and hence me asking if anyone has seen 300v with MA2...

And it is also not correct to consider that MA will be upgraded to MA2.. Both are totally different specs. MA is nowhere inferior to MA2.

What I meant what as 300v falls under whole MA range, once they(Motul) go with new label, the label itself will probably fall under MA2 specs base on its spec...

The results of various tests decide that bike oil falls in which category. And one more important thing - all oils whether MA MA1 MA2 MB are for motorbikes.. But can be used for other equipment like snowmobiles which psr sir's post on 0w40 grade amsoil showed.
If you want more smooth ride go for MA1 ratings. I am not sure whether ma2 or ma is for power.. If castrol power 1 racing is MA then its for power.. Not sure for this.

You can always use whatever you like. Its your bike or machine after all. :P What suits Goldwing for smoooth riding is probably not what I need for my bike. Cars (donno about snowmobiles) again have different clutch than most of the bikes and hence need different friction modifiers which is usually more than a bike need.But then again, depends what you and your machine like. Some people even use diesel engine oil but if they were really that good all the GP riders would be running Diesel engine oils isnt it
Castrol Power 1 racing is MA2. As I write this I am dumping Power1 racing and will be putting 300v in few hours....

Surprised.. But this is the truth..

Never surprised as I learn a lot with talking with people like you who know their stuff .... There is no correct and single way to say what oil to use as the usage/the way bike is ridden/how often you need to change will change the perspective I change the oil every 3-4 track days and current one Castrol Power1 R looks like sludge just after 2, hence the change...

Why I wrote all of this: I just need to know if someone has seen Motul 300v with MA2 rating so I can ask local shops to get it....lol
Cheers!

[dabu]

:-)
For pulsars I would suggest 20W50 even if I am sleeping.. :-)

Yeah.today i changed to 20W50 3100 Gold 4t.. semi synthetics from motul..did 10 km and bike running smooth..and not much heating like earlier when it was in 20W40 castrol active 4t..lets see how it will behave in long run..like mileage and all..but since this is first time bike is in 20W50...after 2years..18K....I am feeling kinda slow...may be this just mind game

I do agree..Pulsar engine needs lot of improvement...but whatever it may be somehow bajaj is able to keep the price low and keeping it affordable...even 200NS will be less than 1L...where as r15, cbr cost more than 1L. yeah I do agree Yamaha, Honda engines are much better compare to bajaj.

Hopefully Bajaj will improve their engines...and also take after sales service more seriously...

[dabu]

I have a mail from Bajaj customer care askingme to use 20W50..will attach the mail for your reference soon.

Attaching the mail screenshot....

[muztariq]

Not really... See table 2.1 here Page 3

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV0604.pdf

what you will see is MA limits and then MA1 limits+MA2 limits covering the MA range. So...effectively they subdivided MA into MA1 and MA2 with the range what MA had.... different way to see it...

But then again I am not chemical engineer but a normal user with some interest in it...

you missed it in the file youve sent.. Page 12. Appendix 1.
When you submit the file of yoir oil, you have to decide in which category you want to keep it. MA, MA1, MA2, MB.

You run JASO listed tests on the oil you make. If it falls under MA2, you apply for MA2 ratings. If for MA1, then MA1.. But if two tests of MA1 complies but third test complies for MA2.. You go for MA ratings (as this is a wider range rating).
It is upto the manufacturer of oil to decide his oil matches to which rating.. And it should be clearly mentioned on the form. JASO will not run the tests and tell you should go for which ratings.

So, MA2 is not an upgrade of MA1. It was not for you but many ppl thought as MA inferior to MA1 to MA2. I just happen to choose your post for correction.. My apologies if I hurt you anyway.
And for your MA2 query.. Type -Jaso, 4t, engine oil, filed- on google and check youself whether the grade of oil you are talking about is MA2 approved. It was updated on March 1, 2012.. Some 583 oils are listed. The first three numerals is the country telephone code.. Like fir India its 091. You can tell how many oils from Indian manufacturer are Jaso approved.
The second result is what we are looking for-

https://www.google.com/m?client=ms-opera-mobile&channel=new&q=jaso+4t+engine+oil+filed

Just for info bro, no offence. Cheers.

[WarpSpeed]

you missed it in the file youve sent.. Page 12. Appendix 1.
When you submit the file of yoir oil, you have to decide in which category you want to keep it. MA, MA1, MA2, MB.

You run JASO listed tests on the oil you make. If it falls under MA2, you apply for MA2 ratings. If for MA1, then MA1.. But if two tests of MA1 complies but third test complies for MA2.. You go for MA ratings (as this is a wider range rating).
It is upto the manufacturer of oil to decide his oil matches to which rating.. And it should be clearly mentioned on the form. JASO will not run the tests and tell you should go for which ratings.

So, MA2 is not an upgrade of MA1. It was not for you but many ppl thought as MA inferior to MA1 to MA2. I just happen to choose your post for correction.. My apologies if I hurt you anyway.
And for your MA2 query.. Type -Jaso, 4t, engine oil, filed- on google and check youself whether the grade of oil you are talking about is MA2 approved. It was updated on March 1, 2012.. Some 583 oils are listed. The first three numerals is the country telephone code.. Like fir India its 091. You can tell how many oils from Indian manufacturer are Jaso approved.
The second result is what we are looking for-
jaso 4t engine oil filed - Google Search

Just for info bro, no offence. Cheers.

LOL none taken.. I think we are talking same thing but in different perspective... I like your knowledge as I said earlier

[praveenblack]

Help Me Please !

I'm owning Honda Unicorn R, the new model with the 3D chrome honda wing on the petrol tank . I have done 28k on it and its now 3 year old. I have some questions and need the answer.. Please help me ....

******* Does my unicorn have an oil filter/mesh? Do i need to clean it or change it? *******
(One of my friend told me that I need to change/clean the oil filter/mesh as its nearing 30k kms and also that I have decided to switch to fully synthetic oil.... My local mechanic said the bike doesn't have oil filter/mesh, but my friend says it has one. really confused. HELP ME !

[Pinaki]

Praveen'Jee
Local mechanic doesn't have the tools or doesn't want to take all the trouble . So he employed a very well known technique taught at all good management schools . i.e Deny the existence of a problem you don't want solve .
Unicorn has two oil filters . One is a centrifugal filter (popularly called rotor filter by Honda workshop mechs) , and one mesh filter . The right(clutch side) crankcase cover will have to be removed to access both at once .Centrifugal filter needs to be cleaned every 12000 kms and Oil strainer screen should be cleaned every 6000 kms (as per owner's manual,read it please). So go to nearest honda authorised service and ask them to clean both . No big problem .

[RNR]

Help please

Praveen'Jee
Local mechanic doesn't have the tools or doesn't want to take all the trouble . So he employed a very well known technique taught at all good management schools . i.e Deny the existence of a problem you don't want solve .
Unicorn has two oil filters . One is a centrifugal filter (popularly called rotor filter by Honda workshop mechs) , and one mesh filter . The right(clutch side) crankcase cover will have to be removed to access both at once .Centrifugal filter needs to be cleaned every 12000 kms and Oil strainer screen should be cleaned every 6000 kms (as per owner's manual,read it please). So go to nearest honda authorised service and ask them to clean both . No big problem .

Hi
I have TVS Flame SR125.Currently using Shell AX7 10W-40 engine oil but after shifting to shell there is a drop in mileage of 5km/l. but the oil is good vibrations have come down. please tell can i use motul 20w-40. as many people says the engine is smooth after using motul.
I am unable to find motul 20w-40 here in hosur. so can i use Yamalube 20w-40 as this oil is from motul.

[ravi@17bhp]

I'm owning Honda Unicorn R, the new model with the 3D chrome honda wing on the petrol tank . I have done 28k on it and its now 3 year old. I have some questions and need the answer.. Please help me ....

******* Does my unicorn have an oil filter/mesh? Do i need to clean it or change it? *******
(One of my friend told me that I need to change/clean the oil filter/mesh as its nearing 30k kms and also that I have decided to switch to fully synthetic oil.... My local mechanic said the bike doesn't have oil filter/mesh, but my friend says it has one. really confused. HELP ME !

There are two filters for Unicorn. They are located on the right side of the engine and you will find them when you open the right side crank case. One is oil strainer, a metal screen which traps bigger metal parts; and two centrifugal filter, which traps finer particles in the oil. You need to clean them every 15k kms (per manual). You need to open the crank case to clean them and generally nobody will do that at service center.

P.S: there is no oil filter near the engine oil drain bolt (as in Karizma).

[SriramEfunds]

Review/Update on Engine Oil
Bike - ZMA-R
Make - Shell AX7 10w40 SS
Distance covered - 1776kms
Terrain - you name it.

1. No cold start issues. Touch of a button brings engine to life.
2. Idles at 1.1-1.2k even after a long run
3. Revvs good beyond 6k
4. Less vibrations
5. Smoothness improved.
6. Maintains engine heat.

After the trip the oil is still good, might carry for another 1000kms in city conditions.

[shoeb2015]

I'm owning Honda Unicorn R, the new model with the 3D chrome honda wing on the petrol tank . I have done 28k on it and its now 3 year old. I have some questions and need the answer.. Please help me ....

******* Does my unicorn have an oil filter/mesh? Do i need to clean it or change it? *******
(One of my friend told me that I need to change/clean the oil filter/mesh as its nearing 30k kms and also that I have decided to switch to fully synthetic oil.... My local mechanic said the bike doesn't have oil filter/mesh, but my friend says it has one. really confused. HELP ME !

As Pinaki ji mentioned in his post,
Usually Mechanics don't clean the oil filters as one has to go through the trouble of removing clutch cable, kicker assembly,Clutch Cover ,gasket etc.
It is a common practice to clean the filters when clutch plates are changed as all the above mentioned parts are removed for replacing clutch plates.

As your bike has done almost 30k,get a new gasket and get the mesh and centrifugal filter cleaned outside by a good and reliable mechanic or at SVC.
Also If there is any clutch slipping issues this is the best time to replace the clutch plates and save some money on labour

[ravi@17bhp]

Even the Honda now turned to 10w30 oil in India, as is the case with other manufacturers (hero, mahindra, Honda, Suzuki). Is 10w30 is better than the 20w40 oil for Indian conditions? Previously everyone above used 20w40 grade and now they turned to 10w30 grade. Is there any advantage in 10w30 over the 20w40 grade?

[antz.bin]

We just had the following discussion on the CBR250R thread. Its not OT here, so could we continue here?

10W30 in India and that to Kochi! Who recommended this!

is the grade same for splendours etc? woah that is news to me!

I was always under the impression that the 20W40 grade oil was the most preferred grade oil in India.

It used to be 20w40 till a few years back but then they switched to 10w30 in like 2009 in the interest of increased fuel economy. Apparently they are interchangeable on the newer engines. From what I know, both w30 and w40 are alright at least on the cars across the temperature range experienced in most of India.

Does Honda has its own oil in this grade? Probably that explains it too

A lot of places in India does get to see close to 40 degrees... Infact it feels more than 40 degrees due to the level of humidity. And yes most lube today are multi grade ones, but I doubt how much degree of comfort would a 10W30 give one as compared to a 10W40 or 20W40/50!

Yes, Honda do have their own oil, both 10W30 and 20W40. But now they recommend 10W30 only.

The point was this. Most Indian Oil companies recommend the 20W40/50 grade oil for Indian conditions. These are organisations which have spend millions in testing with respect to Indian climatic conditions.
Like antz rightly pointed out. The 10W30 range of oil operates effeciently with the temprature range of -25 degrees to 40~ degrees

Most of India never sees less than 5 degrees, but they do see temprature as high as 40 degrees.

What this mean is that you are spending your money on a oil that honda badges and sells which is probably not the smartest choice. Why? simply for the reason that you are better off having a buffer space on the higher temprature viscosity than have a 30 degrees buffer on the coldest it can get.

Still think 10W30 is a smart choice?

Why would that matter as long as:

1. The Honda branded oils are priced reasonably compared to competition. (IMO Motul 300v that I use is terribly overpriced. How is 7100 BTW?)
2. The engine lasts an eternity (since it is a Honda after all ). If it doesn't you have WARRANTY!!!
3. You get reasonably good Fuel economy out of this bargain . (A more viscous oil will create more restriction inside the crankcase leading to lower FE)

Agreed. By that logic you can put cow urine if Honda ever recommends it and or decides to sell it :P

The point isnt that. The point is IF its indeed the right choice for India, especially for the automagically compliance with the older cb100 engines.. All I am hoping is that Honda has an engineer who can certify the prescription instead of a marketing chap! Simple!

If #2 and #3 hold true with cow urine, Cow urine it is!!

Satyen - 10W30 Fully Synthetic is different & superior than what is 20W40 mineral is capable, unless you're talking about 20W40 FS, which I hope is quite rare to find in the market. Hope you got the point. I'm talking about CBR 250R, other motorcycles...sorry, I don't know.

@RG Motul sells a 15w40 300v FS engine oil. As per Satyen's logic, this is the oil he would recommend riders down south to use. I don't see a flaw in this though.

[satyenpoojary]

^^ (Ravi)
the same discussion went slightly off topic on the CBR thread. Though am no expert on the oils (or for that matter any thing :P)
Would like to know more on this especially how this impact on the older engines, and if this is indeed a engineering reason or a commercial reason?

Edit: Antz is fast (MAKE HIM THE MOD!)
You do have a 7100 10W40 FS too which I use on the Ninja

[ravi@17bhp]

Satyen, though we can't rule out commercial reasons, many reputed manufacturers using it makes it highly suspicious. Whats surprising is even Honda turned to this grade. If its for commercial purposes, the same Savita Chemicals is manufacturing before and even now. Of course, few other brands also joined recently (Tide Water and BP). Hero 4T Plus is now made by Servo.

If its for engineering reasons, how a 10w30 grade is better than 20w40 for indian conditions?

Antz.Bin, yes there is a w40 FS oil from Motul.

Satyen, +1, recommend antz.bin as mod.