Engine Oils

[punarvasu]

[QUOTE=ravi@17bhp;788649] Even the Honda now turned to 10w30 oil in India, as is the case with other manufacturers (hero, mahindra, Honda, Suzuki). QUOTE]

Suzuki is still using 20W-40 oil in GS150R and SlingShot. But 10W-30 (mainly from Idemitsu) is used in Access and its modified version, Swish.

[ravi@17bhp]

[QUOTE=punarvasu;788677]

Even the Honda now turned to 10w30 oil in India, as is the case with other manufacturers (hero, mahindra, Honda, Suzuki). QUOTE]

Suzuki is still using 20W-40 oil in GS150R and SlingShot. But 10W-30 (mainly from Idemitsu) is used in Access and its modified version, Swish.

Thanks for the clarification. I was referring to Suzuki Access only, once I serviced it and they were using only 10w30 oil. For Kinetic Flyte too SYM suggested 10w30 oil only. Then Hero turned to 10w30 and now Honda turned to 10w30.

[satyenpoojary]

IIRC TVS and Yamaha also recommend 20W40 grade oil. And isnt the BAL oil is 10W50? (or was it 10W40)

Though I know the engine plays a much bigger role on what grade of oil is to be used, but what beats me is how manufacturers are recommending something. The LC Yamaha prescribes a 20W40, whereas a splendor needs 10W30 suddenly... weird if you ask me.

[ravi@17bhp]

IIRC TVS and Yamaha also recommend 20W40 grade oil. And isnt the BAL oil is 10W50? (or was it 10W40)

Though I know the engine plays a much bigger role on what grade of oil is to be used, but what beats me is how manufacturers are recommending something. The LC Yamaha prescribes a 20W40, whereas a splendor needs 10W30 suddenly... weird if you ask me.

Yes, its really weird. The Honda oil can is printed with recommendation from Honda with its logo.

And you are right that TVS, Bajaj, and Yamaha are still using w40 or w50 oils.

[antz.bin]

IIRC TVS and Yamaha also recommend 20W40 grade oil. And isnt the BAL oil is 10W50? (or was it 10W40)

Though I know the engine plays a much bigger role on what grade of oil is to be used, but what beats me is how manufacturers are recommending something. The LC Yamaha prescribes a 20W40, whereas a splendor needs 10W30 suddenly... weird if you ask me.

BAL recommends 20w40 on everything <150cc (Pulsar / Discover / Platina) and 20w50 for Everything >150 (Pulsar / Avenger)

The HPCL manufactured, BAL branded DTSi 10000 engine oil comes in both 20w40 and 20w50 for SS. @Rs.280/liter it is quite VFM for what it offers.

[aargee]

Talking about logic, here's mine to add...
1. Honda engineers may be crazy, but not stupid enough to recommend 10W30 on their engines (note that I'm talking only about CBR 250R & nothing else)
2. Put it this way, come this Summer & due to their recommendation of 10W30 all CBR's fries up engine, wouldn't they have thought on these lines?
3. So why would they recommend 10W30 in first place if they haven't tested it well; even if you don't consider them as experts, atleast, they would've put some of their experience (call it least of 2-3 decade) on their engines isn't it?
4. I've personally experienced the poor performance of 20W40 mineral & 10W30 FS & found 10W30 to be superior
5. Last but not the least, I'm not defending HMSI or discarding any of your's expertise/knowledge, may be you can call playing Devil's advocate, but, this is what I've on mind.

PS - 30 denotes the viscosity of engine oil when the engine is 100 degree Celsius right? Why do we have to consider the engine temp at 100 & the engine oil at 30? Put it either ways, what I mean is, if the engine has good engine oil, then part of the engine oil + the coolant helps preventing the engine reaching from 100 degrees. Criteria met. Otherwise, shoot the engine temperature to not more than, say 120, 130, yet that might be the optimum viscosity of engine oil to work; could be right?

PPS - Why do we always pull out BAL & 20W50 as standard for any discussion? Is it patriotism or do we always tend to think what BAL does is the industry standards or just because they're desi manufacturers they know India & Indian weather better

[ravi@17bhp]

Talking about logic, here's mine to add...
1. Honda engineers may be crazy, but not stupid enough to recommend 10W30 on their engines (note that I'm talking only about CBR 250R & nothing else)
2. Put it this way, come this Summer & due to their recommendation of 10W30 if all CBR's had engine seizure, wouldn't they have thought on these lines?
3. So why would they recommend 10W30 in first place if they haven't tested it well; even if you don't consider them as experts, atleast, they would've put some of their experience (call it least of 2-3 decade) on their engines isn't it?
4. I've personally experienced the poor performance of 20W40 mineral & 10W30 FS & found 10W30 to be superior
5. Last but not the least, I'm not defending HMSI or discarding any of your's expertise/knowledge, may be you can call playing Devil's advocate, but, this is what I've on mind.

PS - 30 denotes the viscosity of engine oil when the engine is 100 degree Celsius right? Why do we have to consider the engine temp at 100 & the engine oil at 30? Put it either ways, what I mean is, if the engine has good engine oil, then part of the engine oil + the coolant helps preventing the engine reaching from 100 degrees. Criteria met. Otherwise, shoot the engine temperature to not more than, say 120, 130, yet that might be the optimum viscosity of engine oil to work; could be right?

PPS - Why do we always pull out BAL & 20W50 as standard for any discussion? Is it patriotism or do we always tend to think what BAL does is the industry standards or just because they're desi manufacturers they know India & Indian weather better

+1 and strongly agree to your first and fourth point.

Nobody mentioned that Bajaj's oil grade is the standard. When we talk about manufacturers, Bajaj is there and it will eventually come, as is the case with Yamaha and TVS.

The question is the same manufacturer who used w40 before now turned to w30. Did they find w30 is more suitable for Indian conditions?

[aargee]

The question is the same manufacturer who used w40 before now turned to w30. Did they find w30 is more suitable for Indian conditions?

This I really don't know; last time when I was at HMSI ASC, they've switched over to 10W30 Mineral (Mineral oil grey color can). That is something only the manufacturer can answer or we've to experiment ourselves. Next time, I'll be using 10W30 engine oil on my Activa & see if there's any improvement or degrade w.r.t anything.

Edit - What I'd assumed on my first PS seems to be inline with tolerance level of synthetic engine oil; pls give me sometime, I'll come up with relevant articles.

[antz.bin]

This I really don't know; last time when I was at HMSI ASC, they've switched over to 10W30 Mineral (Mineral oil grey color can). That is something only the manufacturer can answer or we've to experiment ourselves. Next time, I'll be using 10W30 engine oil on my Activa & see if there's any improvement or degrade w.r.t anything.

Edit - What I'd assumed seems to be right on my first PS; give me sometime, I'll come up with relevant articles & proofs.

RG My man.. read post #1 of this thread

@Satyen why you bring BAL to Honda Discussion!! Bad Bad

[ravi@17bhp]

This I really don't know; last time when I was at HMSI ASC, they've switched over to 10W30 Mineral (Mineral oil grey color can). That is something only the manufacturer can answer or we've to experiment ourselves. Next time, I'll be using 10W30 engine oil on my Activa & see if there's any improvement or degrade w.r.t anything.

I used 10w30 (made by Idemitsu) oil from Hero Honda in my Karizma a fewer times when HH turned to w30 from w40. I found the bike felt more smoother with w30 oil. There was a w30 oil made by BP supplied to HH, which was really bad with engine feeling rough just in 1000 kms.

[Eshan-P180]

RG My man.. read post #1 of this thread

@Satyen why you bring BAL to Honda Discussion!! Bad Bad

He works for BAL, ab woh toh apni company ki tarreef karega hi na via Vodafone networks!!!!

[aargee]

RG My man...Bad Bad

I used 10w30 (made by Idemitsu) oil from Hero Honda in my Karizma a fewer times when HH turned to w30 from w40. I found the bike felt more smoother with w30 oil

So did that hamper the performance anyway? It didn't right?

There was a w30 oil made by BP supplied to HH, which was really bad with engine feeling rough just in 1000 kms.

Well, cost cutting probably; I hope they don't do that with CBR; I'd better find a good equivalent one in Motul or any other reputed manufacturer before such things happen!!! Nice piece of info. Tks

Note - Just had a thought after submitting, its potential enough to start a brand war, but the moment it goes fiery, I'll stop; anyway the points are...
1. When quality goes up, the price goes up too & most people in our Nation are cost conscious
2. So, when price goes up no one buys the product & that's when someone strikes a balance between price & quality. So they sometimes try to use products that compromises on certain things but certainly helps to keep low costs.
3. What I mean is, the engine could operate optimally with a FS 10W30 (or 10W20 or whatever fine line), but, our people (N/A for enthusiasts) postpone regular service, use beyond normal usage neglecting to which the vehicle fries up & the product is bashed. So few manufacturers compensate this by using more than required, but cost effective solution to get such things done optimally.

Hope you got what I mean.

[ravi@17bhp]

PS - 30 denotes the viscosity of engine oil when the engine is 100 degree Celsius right? Why do we have to consider the engine temp at 100 & the engine oil at 30? Put it either ways, what I mean is, if the engine has good engine oil, then part of the engine oil + the coolant helps preventing the engine reaching from 100 degrees. Criteria met. Otherwise, shoot the engine temperature to not more than, say 120, 130, yet that might be the optimum viscosity of engine oil to work; could be right?

These viscosity and temperature combinations always intrigue me.

Honda's previous w40 is a good engine oil, and now we assume the w30 is also good. Now, a good engine oil at w30 is better or a good engine oil at w40 is better suited to Indian conditions?

[kishoremuthu]

Well, cost cutting probably; I hope they don't do that with CBR; I'd better find a good equivalent one in Motul or any other reputed manufacturer before such things happen!!! Nice piece of info. Tks

You mean to say 10W30 FS from Motul??

If #2 and #3 hold true with cow urine, Cow urine it is!!

Also include, better top end to the list..

[satyenpoojary]

On the right thread this topic has gone balistic!

Aargee - I am not saying that its a benchmark in Indian condition. What I am saying is how manufacturers are generally recommending a w40 oil which even Honda did before it shifted to the new standard.

How thick has the oil to be is more of an engineering question and all manufacturers would have thier own math in measuring it. I am not questioning that either. All I am trying to touch upon is IF 10W30 is indeed the choice of lube that is decided by and engineer and not a marketeer...