Engine Oils

[muztariq]

[madhav krishna]

Thicker oil will only make it run even hotter.

Elaboration please.

I was always under the hunch that a thicker oil would be more effective in dissipating heat since a thicker oil (or more viscous oil in my language) would be having a higher boiling point.

Atleast in my case a thicker oil was able to bring down the heat by a small margin.

[FranklySpeaking]

@muztariq,

You are beating around the bush now. Earlier you were saying that the number before W had no significance whatsoever, unless we talk about 0 degree celcius and below those temperatures. I had asked you why a number is even placed before the W when it has no significance for you? - You have not answered this.

You were saying the lines on the viscosity graph (if we make for 15W50 and 20W40) will cross each other somewhere between -30 (minus 30) and -20 (minus 20) degree celcius. I completely disagreed with that and also gave you the reason to disagree that the oils normally become semi-solid around those temperatures where you are making the lines cross. That temperature is called pour point.

Please take pains to reply to what I say and be specific in what you say, like I am, with my detailed posts (and not just one liners)

I reply to each post of yours in detail whereas you have been throwing random one liners now, changing statements (earlier you were saying that number before W had no significance at temperatures above 0 degree celcius and now you have started saying that number after W plays bigger role, which only suggests me that you now mean to say that number before the W does play 'some' role but you do not know what!)

Please do answer my question that I asked earlier also. I repeat it here.


What is the significance of number before W? (assume that the temperature where you live never goes below 0)


And, I am quite surprised that you (and some others) have started using 0 degree celcius as some point of reference whereas 0 degree celcius is never used as any point of importance when it comes to measuring viscosities. Mostly viscosities would be given at 40 degree celcius and 100 degree celcius only.

[muztariq]

Elaboration please.

I was always under the hunch that a thicker oil would be more effective in dissipating heat since a thicker oil (or more viscous oil in my language) would be having a higher boiling point.

Atleast in my case a thicker oil was able to bring down the heat by a small margin.

I was also under the same impression. But its because of boiling point? Plz explain.

[FranklySpeaking]

Elaboration please.

I was always under the hunch that a thicker oil would be more effective in dissipating heat since a thicker oil (or more viscous oil in my language) would be having a higher boiling point.

Atleast in my case a thicker oil was able to bring down the heat by a small margin.

Flash point is the term used here, at which the oil will start to vaporize. But, that is quite high, something of the order of 300 degree celcius. Oil temperature inside your motorcycle engine will not reach those temperatures.

I think heat dissipation has to do with latent heat.

I think that lesser viscosity and thus a better flow (less drag) will result in lower temperatures. Read first 2-3 paragraphs here if you are interested.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-108/

And, this is a very reliable source of information.

[madhav krishna]

I was also under the same impression. But its because of boiling point? Plz explain.

As franklyspeaking said the term is latent heat.
For example, the coolants we normally use (in say cars and all other liquid cooled engines) usually contains water in a mixture in ethylene glycol. This is done inorder to increase the boiling point of water. This simply inturn increases the latent heat of the coolant. In layman terms the coolant now can absorb more amount of heat from the engine & hence we get a lower temperature of the engine. But then again engine oil & coolant (used in radiators) are two different things. So the theory may not be exactly applicable over here.

I think heat dissipation has to do with latent heat.

To be honest this was the term i had in my mind while typing my previous post.

I think that lesser viscosity and thus a better flow (less drag) will result in lower temperatures. Read first 2-3 paragraphs here if you are interested.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-108/

And, this is a very reliable source of information.

Read it. Thanks for the link. So according to it an engine with less running would offer better fuel economy when a low thickness oil is used due to lower internal drag & better flow. Seems like its time for me to shift down to a lower grade oil. W50 oil seems to be taking its toll on my bike's engine.
But in my case its pretty hard to determine which grade to use. The manual recommends W40 oil. But after getting it modded joel recommended to use W50 oil. My daily running turns out to be nearly 30kms. Perhaps a trial & error method should give a correct idea about the grading.

[FranklySpeaking]

Read it. Thanks for the link. So according to it an engine with less running would offer better fuel economy when a low thickness oil is used due to lower internal drag & better flow. Seems like its time for me to shift down to a lower grade oil. W50 oil seems to be taking its toll on my bike's engine.
But in my case its pretty hard to determine which grade to use. The manual recommends W40 oil. But after getting it modded joel recommended to use W50 oil. My daily running turns out to be nearly 30kms. Perhaps a trial & error method should give a correct idea about the grading.

There is nothing like saying W50 or something. That W is for the number preceding the W and in no way related to the number after it!


W means Winter and 15W50 can be written like 15W-50. So, if you separate the two, it is 15W and 50 and NOT 15 and W50. I hope you get my point. 15W is the low temperature specification (not necessarily 0 degree celcius) and 50 is the high temperature (100 degree celcius) specification.

This is a very good read in understanding viscosities: (make sure you read the yellow coloured table on page 2)

http://www.ideas4ag-ed.com/uploads/3/7/0/4/3704787/stan_toepfer_understanding_motor_oil_viscosity.pdf

[muztariq]

@muztariq,
Earlier you were saying that the number before W had no significance whatsoever, unless we talk about 0 degree celcius and below those temperatures. -
I had asked you why a number is even placed before the W when it has no significance for you? - You have not answered this.

You were saying the lines on the viscosity graph (if we make for 15W50 and 20W40) will cross each other somewhere between -30 (minus 30) and -20 (minus 20) degree celcius. I completely disagreed with that and also gave you the reason to disagree that the oils normally become semi-solid around those temperatures where you are making the lines cross. That temperature is called pour point.SAE J 300, Dec. 1999 here - http://www.tribology-abc.com/abc/viscosity.htmMotul 5100 4T 15W-50 High performance lubricant for bikes TechnosyntheseMotul 300V 15W50 4T Factory Line 1L Synthetic M/C Oil | eBay

Please take pains to reply to what I say and be specific in what you say, like I am, with my detailed posts (and not just one liners) - OK.. This is detailed I think

I reply to each post of yours in detail whereas you have been throwing random one liners now, changing statements (earlier you were saying that number before W had no significance at temperatures above 0 degree celcius and now you have started saying that number after W plays bigger role, which only suggests me that you now mean to say that number before the W does play 'some' role but you do not know what!) Yes the number before W has some role at room temperature. Remember this is what I said - Always remember, when at room temperature.. a 5W40 will have slightly better flow than 10W40 which will have a slightly better flow than 20W40 which will have a much better flow than 10W50 which will have a slightly better flow than 20W50 which will have a much better flow than 10W60 and like wise.

Please do answer my question that I asked earlier also. I repeat it here.


What is the significance of number before W? (assume that the temperature where you live never goes below 0) - I think I have answered it exhaustively in my previous posts. But I have repeated it again above. Wont repeat any further!


And, I am quite surprised that you (and some others) have started using 0 degree celcius as some point of reference whereas 0 degree celcius is never used as any point of importance when it comes to measuring viscosities. Mostly viscosities would be given at 40 degree celcius and 100 degree celcius only.

Please find my detailed replies in BOLD.. Please dont misquote me.

[muztariq]

There is nothing like saying W50 or something. That W is for the number preceding the W and in no way related to the number after it!

See, There are two ways SAE denotes oils for example SAE 20W multigrade and SAE 20 grade. To avoid confusion we write SAE20 as W20 grade!! So, SAE50 grade become W50.

Hope you understand W50 exists big time. Yes, 15W-50 is the correct notation. But W50 is easier to write than SAE50, hence this terminology.

[FranklySpeaking]

I have run short of patience now to even reply to you. You just do not want to THINK. I do not know whether you are doing this deliberately or not but you are doing rounds and still posting wrong stuff!

[muztariq]

I have run short of patience now to even reply to you. You just do not want to THINK. I do not know whether you are doing this deliberately or not but you are doing rounds and still posting wrong stuff!

Lol.. thats the same opinion I have for you.. Lets move on!

[girimajiananth]

Mine is a CBR 150R and I have mostly baby rided the bike. I did some hard rev driving only for the past 300kms. Is it good to change the oil to FS in my second service. Or should I change to mineral and set the bike still more?

Some oil companies say its a myth and you can start using full synthetic right from day one . Some CARS , use full synthetic oil even before its delivered to you .

Stick to the ASC oil until all your free services are done , use full synthetic oil after atleast 15k kms . IMHO allow some wear and tear , let the valves set in.

[mulli84]

Some oil companies say its a myth and you can start using full synthetic right from day one . Some CARS , use full synthetic oil even before its delivered to you .

Stick to the ASC oil until all your free services are done , use full synthetic oil after atleast 15k kms . IMHO allow some wear and tear , let the valves set in.

Thx for the reply very much as in this thread, there is a lot of debate instead of helping out fellow members. So is semi synthetic ok? My bike is due second service next week.

[Honda_CBF]

I discussed this with mechanic today and he explained the logic of mixing two oils and it will be used for gear box only .
Now I am clear that 20W50 being a multi grade oil will behave as SAE20 oil on zero degree temperature and SAE50 on hundred degree temperature. So this will be too thin at the starting of engine and bike will run hotter.

I am some how like the idea of 70% SAE40 + 30% EP 90 oil.

yes you can use 70% SAE40 + 30% EP 90 oil, just change your oil every 3000km/6 months, whichever is earlier. you can also use 20w50 jaso MA/MA1/MA2 oils (oil for 4 stroke bikes) but change them little earlier, like 2000-2500km/4 months, whichever is earlier.

with 20w50 oils there wont be any "too thin oil" issues when bike gets hotter. because viscosity at 100'C will be almost same for both the oil. "too thin oil" issue will come only when you use 20w50 oil for prolonged period because by then, those VII's will get destroyed and 20w50 oil is no more 20w50 it will be 20w (less than) 50

But this would be better for your engine not bad!! You will not get any overheating issue at all..

sir ji, amardeep's asking about gear oil. it wont affect engine.

Thx for the reply very much as in this thread, there is a lot of debate instead of helping out fellow members. So is semi synthetic ok? My bike is due second service next week.

bro, all CBR's uses FS oils. ask for Honda full throttle.

[andrei79]

yes you can use 70% SAE40 + 30% EP 90 oil, just change your oil every 3000km/6 months, whichever is earlier. you can also use 20w50 jaso MA/MA1/MA2 oils (oil for 4 stroke bikes) but change them little earlier, like 2000-2500km/4 months, whichever is earlier.

with 20w50 oils there wont be any "too thin oil" issues when bike gets hotter. because viscosity at 100'C will be almost same for both the oil. "too thin oil" issue will come only when you use 20w50 oil for prolonged period because by then, those VII's will get destroyed and 20w50 oil is no more 20w50 it will be 20w (less than) 50



sir ji, amardeep's asking about gear oil. it wont affect engine.



bro, all CBR's uses FS oils. ask for Honda full throttle.

Why bother buy a 10w60 oil like ELF MOTO SPORT 4 Campione 10w60 100% PAO based Fully synthetic oil not the usual Group III Hydrocracked mineral oil