Engine Oils

[B7ACKTHORN]

Query Approved and Merged

I just want to know the difference between
Mineral
Semisynthetic
Synthetic oils...
:-)

In plain terms.
Mineral oil is basically made from natural additives.
Semisyn, as the name suggests, part natural, part man made additives.
Fully syn - 100% man made additives used.


Cheers!
VJ

[muztariq]

Well written, but FS doesnt necessarily mean its man made.. Even highly refined dino oils are legally called FS.

[B7ACKTHORN]

Well written, but FS doesnt necessarily mean its man made.. Even highly refined dino oils are legally called FS.

Absolutely Muzz, but didn't want to start off the whole chain reaction on dino oils. Well, for starters, let them start one step at a time right. You're absolutely true on that one though.

Cheers!
VJ

[vineeshvv]

Guys i am using CBZ Xtreme 2007 model clocked 70000+ kms

recently i done full engine repair that i changed 2 noisy gear wheels 3rd and 4th , over hauled cylinder and installed a first over size piston changed the timing chain and the tensioner

after full engine work i have completed 900 kms

now which oil should i use for my bike, currently running with hero honda 4t plus 10w-30

please suggest me a good engine oil for my CBZ Xtreme

[psr]

Guys i am using CBZ Xtreme 2007 model clocked 70000+ kms

recently i done full engine repair that i changed 2 noisy gear wheels 3rd and 4th , over hauled cylinder and installed a first over size piston changed the timing chain and the tensioner

after full engine work i have completed 900 kms

now which oil should i use for my bike, currently running with hero honda 4t plus 10w-30

please suggest me a good engine oil for my CBZ Xtreme

Till you complete 2,000 Kms run the engine on Pure Mineral oils..shell AX5 or AX7, Gulf Pride 4T,Valvoline 4T,Motul 3000 4T,etc....

[Prith]

Till you complete 2,000 Kms run the engine on Pure Mineral oils..shell AX5 or AX7, Gulf Pride 4T,Valvoline 4T,Motul 3000 4T,etc....

^ +1 to psr. Use current oil as a break-in oil. Then you can shift to Shell mineral for economical run and then move to FS post 5K odo.

Had anyone heard or used Motul 3100 gold 20W50 before?

Should be 15W50..can you confirm once again?

[B7ACKTHORN]

^ +1 to psr. Use current oil as a break-in oil. Then you can shift to Shell mineral for economical run and then move to FS post 5K odo.



Should be 15W50..can you confirm once again?

Motul 3100 comes in 15w50 and 10w40 and both are semi synthetic and 3000T is completely mineral in all grades of it, if my memory serves me correct which are 20w50, 15w50 and 10w40.

Cheers!
VJ

[muztariq]

Guys i am using CBZ Xtreme 2007 model clocked 70000+ kms

recently i done full engine repair that i changed 2 noisy gear wheels 3rd and 4th , over hauled cylinder and installed a first over size piston changed the timing chain and the tensioner

after full engine work i have completed 900 kms

now which oil should i use for my bike, currently running with hero honda 4t plus 10w-30

please suggest me a good engine oil for my CBZ Xtreme

So, you have completed 70K kms on your cbz.. congratulations for that. Getting more knowledge on engine oils does not necessarily mean that the oils which served you to complete 70K kms are inferior to any brand that we are using. I completed 1 L kms on servo oil in my splendor which mostly ran on racing mode. The same servo brand is filled in Hyundai cars by default. You say servo and you realize no one wants to put it in. But, if you are facing some problems like:

1) hard gear shifts
2) roughness in engine
3) over heating of engine
4) consistent high rpm rides
5) clutch slippage

etc., you may want to change the oil that you are using.. good oils are beautifully mentioned by psrji. If you are having no such issues, you may wish to continue with your present brand of oil.

[psr]

Completed 700 Kms on the Rimula R3X in my ZMA engine, and saw the oil had just starting to change in color...the oil is no longer golden yellow, but a slight shade of dark yellow now...No oil I had used before had remained this clean for 700 Kms...I had filled 1 liter after fully draining the old oil, and the oil level is also the same..not even a mm less...The oil behaves the same as when I first used it new, no less acceleration or vibes felt so far...I am impressed by this mineral oil for it's stability and feel,since i had taken the engine to short sudden high RPM and speed bursts of 8,500 RPM and to 100 Kmph (after warm up) which loads the engine and the oil very much......
Still got to see if the same properties remain till another 800 Kms..(total 1,500 kms).....
Request members NOT to rush to any conclusion, since this is still an experiment.

[nilesh14587]

I just want to know the difference between
Mineral
Semisynthetic
Synthetic oils...
:-)

Generally any engine oil is based on a particular hydro-Carbon (HC) oil (some CxHy chemical). How this base is derived tells you what kind of oil it is.

1. In mineral oil the base is derived from naturally occurring petroleum. As its refined from crude oil, generally it contains variety of isomers and other HC compounds in addition to the base oil (like wax contents which make them freeze at sub-zero temperatures). So the viscosity and other chemical/physical properties are not as consistent and it does not last longer. But as its obtained by refining petroleum, its cheaper.

2. For synthetic oil, this base is actually synthesized from chemical reaction and hence is man-made so to speak. Due to this, it contains purely single HC compound and so its highly consistent with its molecular structure and thus viscosity and other chemical/physical properties. But of coarse its costly to manufacture.

3. Semi-synthetic oil are literally blends of above to with upto 60-70% of mineral base and rest synthetic. So these fall in between the two in terms of cost and performance.

Now fully Synthetic oils, in addition to the main base oil, could contain unto 20% additives derived from Esters/diesters (a kind of HC compound again). Esters act as detergents in engine and keep it real clean from carbon deposits/slurry etc. Also there are other additives which keep the oil stable at high temperatures and give good viscosity.

[B7ACKTHORN]

Completed 700 Kms on the Rimula R3X in my ZMA engine, and saw the oil had just starting to change in color...the oil is no longer golden yellow, but a slight shade of dark yellow now...No oil I had used before had remained this clean for 700 Kms...I had filled 1 liter after fully draining the old oil, and the oil level is also the same..not even a mm less...The oil behaves the same as when I first used it new, no less acceleration or vibes felt so far...I am impressed by this mineral oil for it's stability and feel,since i had taken the engine to short sudden high RPM and speed bursts of 8,500 RPM and to 100 Kmph (after warm up) which loads the engine and the oil very much......
Still got to see if the same properties remain till another 800 Kms..(total 1,500 kms).....
Request members NOT to rush to any conclusion, since this is still an experiment.

Superlikey psr ji. Waiting for the final verdict.

Cheers!
VJ

[nilesh14587]

Completed 700 Kms on the Rimula R3X in my ZMA engine, and saw the oil had just starting to change in color...the oil is no longer golden yellow, but a slight shade of dark yellow now...No oil I had used before had remained this clean for 700 Kms...I had filled 1 liter after fully draining the old oil, and the oil level is also the same..not even a mm less...The oil behaves the same as when I first used it new, no less acceleration or vibes felt so far...I am impressed by this mineral oil for it's stability and feel,since i had taken the engine to short sudden high RPM and speed bursts of 8,500 RPM and to 100 Kmph (after warm up) which loads the engine and the oil very much......
Still got to see if the same properties remain till another 800 Kms..(total 1,500 kms).....
Request members NOT to rush to any conclusion, since this is still an experiment.

Nice one PSR Sir...

Since I have just started understanding engine oil, i have lot of doubts still. One think I wanted to ask regarding color of the oil. What is the indicator of good oil in terms of the color?? Does it mean that the oil which maintains its color longer is a good oil??

The ester/di-ester containing FS oils have very good detergent properties and should be effectively removing carbon deposits/slurry in the engine making the oil dirty. Now if one is switching from mineral oil, after long term use, to such oil wouldn't the new oil be blackened quickly as it would be washing away the long term carbon deposited in engine gaps/parts (e.g. gaskets)?? It would be keeping the particles suspended without really loosing the lubricating properties.

I checked about Rimula R3X, and it is diesel engine oil and suppose to have very good detergent properties. In a dirty engine it would become murky quickly, wouldn't it??

I have used Motul 3000 oil in my P200NS for about 4000km and then switched to Motul 5100. I observed that the 5100 oil blackened within 1000km. (of coarse 5100 doesn't contain esters so above mentioned point is not valid here). Does it mean 5100 is not so good oil??

[psr]

Nice one PSR Sir...

Since I have just started understanding engine oil, i have lot of doubts still. One think I wanted to ask regarding color of the oil. What is the indicator of good oil in terms of the color?? Does it mean that the oil which maintains its color longer is a good oil??

The ester/di-ester containing FS oils have very good detergent properties and should be effectively removing carbon deposits/slurry in the engine making the oil dirty. Now if one is switching from mineral oil, after long term use, to such oil wouldn't the new oil be blackened quickly as it would be washing away the long term carbon deposited in engine gaps/parts (e.g. gaskets)?? It would be keeping the particles suspended without really loosing the lubricating properties.

I checked about Rimula R3X, and it is diesel engine oil and suppose to have very good detergent properties. In a dirty engine it would become murky quickly, wouldn't it??

I have used Motul 3000 oil in my P200NS for about 4000km and then switched to Motul 5100. I observed that the 5100 oil blackened within 1000km. (of coarse 5100 doesn't contain esters so above mentioned point is not valid here). Does it mean 5100 is not so good oil??

From what I have learned (and still learning) an engine oil is either a Dino oil(from earth) Mineral,Semi synth, or a Fully synthetic (man made)...Even the so called FS fully man made contains Dino oil parts....
So when we select an oil for an engine, we must first know the engine's build ,if it is made with close tolerance or large tolerances,Old engine with high mileage or new engine just breaking in, or less mileage one...then we should know the recommended grade of oil and the ambient under which the engine is likely to work...Wet or dry clutch,....Petrol or Diesel Fuel,...all these inputs decide the oil to be used in the engine....
The color of the oil is determined by the manufacturer based on the die used..
The color of the oil changes due to blow by contamination, and the general cleanliness of engine..
The color of oil as you continue to use in the engine also indicates how good the oil is able to retain the ring sealing preventing blowby....a quick change of oil color after fresh fill up shows poor ring sealing property.
Esters are added to stabilize oil and give some advantages, under stress of various kind..here is a useful link..

Esters In Synthetic Lubricants - Bob is the Oil Guy

Rimula R3x is mineral oil meant for Diesel engines.....I chose it because it does not contain any Friction Modifiers, and contains good amount of ZDDP, an additive which gives good protection to moving parts in the engine esp., the drive train...here is a useful link on ZDDP...


ZDDP: When, Where, What, Why, How?: Engine Builder

Since Rimula is without Friction Modifiers(Molybdenum disulphide) which would make the clutch to slip, has Triple protection, contains ZDDP, has good Viscosity Index and Lower Kinematic Viscosity at 40 C, is available in 15w40 and has marginally better flash point, I chose the oil for my experiment.

Off late my opinion on Motul had changed since I had used their products and had not found them to be very superlative...there are other manufacturers offering equal or better products in all the range...
Shell is proving as a Good Oil manufacturer with good range and quality...Of course they are the business partners and oil provider to Ferrari...

[B7ACKTHORN]

From what I have learned (and still learning) an engine oil is either a Dino oil(from earth) Mineral,Semi synth, or a Fully synthetic (man made)...Even the so called FS fully man made contains Dino oil parts....
So when we select an oil for an engine, we must first know the engine's build ,if it is made with close tolerance or large tolerances,Old engine with high mileage or new engine just breaking in, or less mileage one...then we should know the recommended grade of oil and the ambient under which the engine is likely to work...Wet or dry clutch,....Petrol or Diesel Fuel,...all these inputs decide the oil to be used in the engine....
The color of the oil is determined by the manufacturer based on the die used..
The color of the oil changes due to blow by contamination, and the general cleanliness of engine..
The color of oil as you continue to use in the engine also indicates how good the oil is able to retain the ring sealing preventing blowby....a quick change of oil color after fresh fill up shows poor ring sealing property.
Esters are added to stabilize oil and give some advantages, under stress of various kind..here is a useful link..

Esters In Synthetic Lubricants - Bob is the Oil Guy

Rimula R3x is mineral oil meant for Diesel engines.....I chose it because it does not contain any Friction Modifiers, and contains good amount of ZDDP, an additive which gives good protection to moving parts in the engine esp., the drive train...here is a useful link on ZDDP...


ZDDP: When, Where, What, Why, How?: Engine Builder

Since Rimula is without Friction Modifiers(Molybdenum disulphide) which would make the clutch to slip, has Triple protection, contains ZDDP, has good Viscosity Index and Lower Kinematic Viscosity at 40 C, is available in 15w40 and has marginally better flash point, I chose the oil for my experiment.

Off late my opinion on Motul had changed since I had used their products and had not found them to be very superlative...there are other manufacturers offering equal or better products in all the range...
Shell is proving as a Good Oil manufacturer with good range and quality...Of course they are the business partners and oil provider to Ferrari...

Now it makes sense, on the blowby color change, I myself heard my mechanic buddy say that to a scooter owner, an Activa chap, when I inquired about the same. That being said, I knew someday you would say the Motul as not the silver bullet for all engine oil requirements. But still in some high-performance applications, I guess Motul supplies to Ferrari right, ji?

Cheers!
VJ

[psr]

Now it makes sense, on the blowby color change, I myself heard my mechanic buddy say that to a scooter owner, an Activa chap, when I inquired about the same. That being said, I knew someday you would say the Motul as not the silver bullet for all engine oil requirements. But still in some high-performance applications, I guess Motul supplies to Ferrari right, ji?

Cheers!
VJ

No they supply to Yamaha,Suzuki Bikes, McLaren , Audi in rally, etc.,

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