Engine Oils

[Anuj_Gupta]

Re: Engine Oils

Though it is not advisable to change to a synthetic oil before 10000 kms, but if you really insist then please go ahead with any of the synthetic available there. You can pour in Motul 300V(Green Colour & Superbe fragrance), but it would be an overkill in terms of price. I would advice you to go with 7100. It will save you few bucks. Don't worry about the colour of oil as it would not be the same when you will drain it. Goodluck Mate!!!

Thanks and I didn't know,so no to synthetic.
My next service will be in March April
Daily run is around 5-7 km (if I go out in this winter)
Please advise as per.
Thank you for replying.

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[ashwanth.r]

Re: Engine Oils

Many many thanks to DS, PSR sir, abhi7013, AK3D, Muztariq and others taking your time for replying on HDEOs. Most of ou are ZMA/ZMR people but I see no reason why a HDEO should not be used on a GS (GS engine is "heavy-duty" actually). Have decided to go ahead. Will be back with more basic questions if anything comes about in my mind.

[nadz11.ns]

Re: Engine Oils

I have read somewhere that the Brake Fluids are more reactive to air/moisture.
So i wanted to know for how long can we store a bottle of brake fluid after opening the seal ?

[AK3D]

Re: Engine Oils

Many many thanks to DS, PSR sir, abhi7013, AK3D, Muztariq and others taking your time for replying on HDEOs. Most of ou are ZMA/ZMR people but I see no reason why a HDEO should not be used on a GS (GS engine is "heavy-duty" actually). Have decided to go ahead. Will be back with more basic questions if anything comes about in my mind.

Do let us know how it works out for you. Keep an eye on acceleration response, gear shifts, engine heat and compare to the old oil.

I have read somewhere that the Brake Fluids are more reactive to air/moisture.
So i wanted to know for how long can we store a bottle of brake fluid after opening the seal ?

It absorbs moisture, sooner you use it, the better. Some bottles have air tight caps, those should be safe to use even after extended storage.

[amitmalve]

Re: Engine Oils

Which among the following 15w40 diesel engine oil will be more suitable for use in honda unicorn dazzler -

Mobil delvac 1300
Shell rimula R3
Mobil delvac MX
Shell rimula T3

[psr]

Re: Engine Oils

Which among the following 15w40 diesel engine oil will be more suitable for use in honda unicorn dazzler -

Mobil delvac 1300
Shell rimula R3
Mobil delvac MX
Shell rimula T3

Shell Rimula R4 or R3X

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

I have read somewhere that the Brake Fluids are more reactive to air/moisture.
So i wanted to know for how long can we store a bottle of brake fluid after opening the seal ?

General thumb rule is 6 months life after opening a Brake fluid...if stored with loose cap, 1 month.

[md_minhaj]

Re: Engine Oils

As cold season has arrived and your engine is new, I will suggest you to buy:
1. Shell advance ax7- semi-synthetic(10w40)
MRP around Rs.360
Good during winters.
Or
2. Motul 5100 semisynthetic (15w50)
MRP. Around Rs.550
Good during summer season

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Thanks... But can we use 10w40 oil instead of the recommended 20w40 ?. I mean won't there be any problem ?

[harikishen]

Re: Engine Oils

There is no doubt that synthetic oils are better than mineral in every front. But, the problem with consumables are primarily dependent on cost vs benefit ratio.

Lets assume a bike priced 80K runs 1,00,000 km. In these kms it would see these many oil changes 1,00,000/3000 = 33! On a good quality mineral this would be 33*250 = INR 8250 and on a good synthetic it would be 33*750 = 24750 i.e you pay around INR 16500 extra. Now you can go for a complete piston kit replacement in this money!
Synthetic will not protect the engine so much so that kit replacement will be completely eliminated with the use of synthetics. It would merely prolong the life by max 10%. After this 10% is over it would also go for fresh bore.

Also after 50K kms on a bike the consumption of synthetic oil would be more and regular top ups with same synthetic oil is inevitable.
The second reason that go against the usage of synthetic oils is the terminology synthetic. Most of the synthetic oils that are available in the market are actually severely hydro-cracked mineral oil. Good synthetics cost 1000/litre. In INR 750/litre you only get refined mineral, nothing else. Thereby reducing the cost to benefit ratio further.
The costlier the equipment you have, the costlier protection it would demand. R15s and KTMs come with semi-synthetic recommendation. CBR250 comes with Synthetic recommendation.. all because of sophistication of the engine. An enfield is also having a costly engine but the lack of sophistication renders it less pricey to repair than a KTMs engine.
I would prefer keeping gold in a sand pot rather than sand in a gold pot. It boils down to what you want to protect.

Now, why HDEOs? Most of us are using synthetics primarily because of the smoothness and comfort it provides. HDEOs are capable of providing the same level of comfort as that of synthetics. This feat is primarily achieved by HDEOs because of the presence of high ZDDP content which acts a secondary friction reducer. Why can HDEOs have high level of ZDDP and motorcycle oils cant? Most of the HDEOs are 15w40 grade and this grade (15w40) can have higher levels of ZDDP and was excluded from limiting phosphorus content from the API spec. Because heavy duty engines require more protection and these have large oil capacities, API acknowledges that use of synthetic oils in these vehicles does not benefit the cost vs benefit ratio and thats why excluded it from showing low phosphorus content. Please note Heavy duty engines would be very polluting but still!!

HDEOs vs Motorcycle oils(mineral)
HDEOs fair well because after 1000 km motorcylces running on mineral oil start showing discomfort but HDEOs doesnot (high ZDDP). Again if someone is using HDEOs because he thinks it would protect more than normal minerals than it is not true. Usual mineral grade motorcycle oils are equally good protecting under normal usage. Under sever usage, the HDEOs would be better protective.

I have been using Mobil 1300 15w40 HDEO from August 2012, haven't considered using a synthetic again. Minerals are impossible now on the bike. It's either Synthetic or HDEO and HDEO it is! Forever!
Came across this oil after coming to know lots of people using it around the world. The three widely used HDEOs are Chevron 400, Shell Rotella and Mobil 1300. Of these only Mobil 1300 and Rimula are available in India. Even the roadside mechanic near my house is using Castrol CRB Diesel EO from ages in motorcycles. So, what came quite late to me was actually being used from so long. I took the plunge as I always knew that the worst that would happen is clutch slippage! I was ready to revert back when that happens. I dont know when will I completely consume the 5L can I bought 1.5 years back. http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/help-me/...-oils-551.html

I would not suggest it for less than 100 cc bikes during cold weather. This oil (Mobil) is heavy! less than 100 cc may have initial oil circulation problem in cold weather. Need to feel the heaviness of Rimula to make a direct comparison.

Sir since you have made it clear that you are using 4 wheelers oils. So can I use shell helix hx3 on p220. I personally feel it to be better than motul 5100ss. Gear shifts were awesome and was only half the cost

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[raging_bull]

Re: Engine Oils

No,there won't be. From what I understand, the number before the W indicates the lowest temperature at which the oil functions as intended. Going lower than recommended isn't problematic, going higher than recommended is.

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Maybe you should read the first post of the thread. Actually the numbers before and after W indicate viscosity of the oil. Simply put, the number before the W indicate the viscosity at low temperature and the one after W indicates the viscosity at high temperature.

Thanks... But can we use 10w40 oil instead of the recommended 20w40 ?. I mean won't there be any problem ?

You shouldn't use an oil that has a higher 'cold viscosity rating' or a lower 'hot viscosity rating' than recommended.

However, you can use oils with lower 'cold viscosity rating' and a higher 'hot viscosity rating' than recommended. But then again, there should be a limit for that also (especially hot temp.viscosity). A difference of 10 is perfectly fine. So 10W40 wont be a problem at all. In fact it will provide more engine protection.

Lets assume a bike priced 80K runs 1,00,000 km. In these kms it would see these many oil changes 1,00,000/3000 = 33! On a good quality mineral this would be 33*250 = INR 8250 and on a good synthetic it would be 33*750 = 24750 i.e you pay around INR 16500 extra. Now you can go for a complete piston kit replacement in this money!

I think you forgot to consider the fact that synthetic oils last more than mineral oils. So that calculation is actually incorrect. Please edit that portion of your post for the readers

Update on the synthetic oil leak issue for those who are interested: I came to know from a friend that the usage of some poor quality/old tech seals can also lead to oil leaks when you change from mineral to synthetic oil, after using the former for long periods. Very much possible, I would say.

[warfareonly]

Re: Engine Oils

Maybe you should read the first post of the thread. Actually the numbers before and after W indicate viscosity of the oil. Simply put, the number before the W indicate the viscosity at low temperature and the one after W indicates the viscosity at high temperature.

I'm ashamed. I didn't even read the first post! Thank you for pointing that out sir. I'll delete out that post.


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[muztariq]

Re: Engine Oils

Sir since you have made it clear that you are using 4 wheelers oils. So can I use shell helix hx3 on p220. I personally feel it to be better than motul 5100ss. Gear shifts were awesome and was only half the cost

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No, dont use petrol car oils in bikes. They damage the clutch.

I think you forgot to consider the fact that synthetic oils last more than mineral oils. So that calculation is actually incorrect. Please edit that portion of your post for the readers

Haha.. for calculation you should always use equipment manufacturer recommendations not the oil manufactureres. Gulf 4T and Pulsar DTSi oils claim 10,000 km intervals between oil changes, even though they are minerals. I cant bring that into calculation otherwise only 10 oil changes in 1 lakh km.
Synthetic oil manufacturers do not ask you to extend drain intervals. I always ask ppl to refer this FAQ from Motul regarding what they have to say about it. Motul info - evolutionm.net
300V or 8100/6100 ? Make your choice :
Oil choice depends on your use :
300V are especially designed for racing, Motul is providing to end-
consumers the lubricants set up for the teams : that is to say that the
products you can find on the shop shelves are the same as products used
by the teams for races.
These lubricants have to be strong enough to resist at very high
temperature, provide the best lubrication, reduce friction… In one word,
meet all the stringent requirements for racing.
8100, 6100… are designed for common daily use : in this case, you will
ask your car to start every morning, drive it in the stop-and-go traffic
to go at work, and drive it back to home in the evening. To complete that
you will not be agree to go for service too often.
Requirements for daily use are different from racing.
Motul 8100, 6100 … are made for that. In these conditions and with these
lubricants, you will be able to follow the car maker recommended drain
intervals without any trouble.

[raging_bull]

Re: Engine Oils

I'm ashamed. I didn't even read the first post! Thank you for pointing that out sir. I'll delete out that post.


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What is in it to be ashamed of? If that's the case, I shouldn't be posting on many internet forums! Most importantly, you didn't try to justify your mistake. People like you are rarely seen here.
@muztariq
I can easily write another 'essay post' to prove you wrong but it's unnecessary I guess. Because it's a well known, established fact that synthetic oils last longer than mineral oils and I don't want want to spoil the day by fighting on an internet forum. Have better things to do . Anyways I appreciate your valiant effort .

Merry Xmas everybody .

[harikishen]

Re: Engine Oils

No, dont use petrol car oils in bikes. They damage the clutch.

Can you explain me sir why we shouldn't use them. Also since p220 need xW-50 oil what diesel engine oil should I use. Is rimula r4 ok even if its not the grade?


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[muztariq]

Re: Engine Oils

@muztariq
I can easily write another 'essay post' to prove you wrong but it's unnecessary I guess. Because it's a well known, established fact that synthetic oils last longer than mineral oils and I don't want want to spoil the day by fighting on an internet forum. Have better things to do . Anyways I appreciate your valiant effort .

Merry Xmas everybody .

If xbhp is a team.. you would be the only outlier. I am waiting for your 'essay post'. Ignorance and arrogance comes together. From the last few posts I am observing you - You appear to be a little arrogant and even had to delete some parts of your post. You may have a lot of knowledge, but what is appearing from your post is that you have just started researching on oils. Consider an example below:

Maybe you should read the first post of the thread. Actually the numbers before and after W indicate viscosity of the oil. Simply put, the number before the W indicate the viscosity at low temperature and the one after W indicates the viscosity at high temperature.
.

So you mean in 10w40, 10 is viscosity of oil when cold and 40 is the viscosity when hot! The oil is getting thicker with temperature?

Can you explain me sir why we shouldn't use them. Also since p220 need xW-50 oil what diesel engine oil should I use. Is rimula r4 ok even if its not the grade?

Going by the book, w40 (which is the spec you will find on most diesels) cant be used in w50 recommendation. But most bikes around the world which have w50 recommendation have been using HDEOs. Whether you want to go ahead or not is your call.

[abhi7013]

Re: Engine Oils

Can you explain me sir why we shouldn't use them. Also since p220 need xW-50 oil what diesel engine oil should I use. Is rimula r4 ok even if its not the grade?


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I don't think pulsar engine can handle an oil like rimula. My friend had used the r3x on his 220 and his mileage dropped way low with drastic reduction in pickup. You could feel it immediately after shifting to the diesel oil. I never encountered reduction in acceleration in my zmr as much as he had faced. I have no clue why. Psr sir may throw light on this. If it was the engine problem or the wrong-oil-in-wrong-bike problem.

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