Universal : Riding Gear Thread

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Solace is using a Marketing gimmick of 750 D an

Besides it's not a gimmick by Rynox to use the word Cordura as even Solace is using that word on their website (and does not even come with any authenticity of Cordura such as sew label). Besides Rynox Tornado Pro comes with authentic Cordura Tag (sew label as well as hang tag). Here is the Cordura is a brand and its website- CORDURA® Brand - Home. The site also have test results to show how a DU Pont has higher abrasion than any other material even Nylon for that matter.

So in fact, it is certainly a gimmick/false claim by Solace to use the word Cordura®, as it is using 750D Polyester which is a very inexpensive material. Cordura and Polyester are both different materials and Solace conveniently uses the word Cordura® instead of Polyester 750D. And Polyester 750D is as good as Nylon Mesh (used in Tornado Pro). Imagine brands like Rynox and Viaterra make bags out of 1680D Polyester (sold at 3k) and Solace is using mere 750D Polyester for Jacket, how abrasion resistant do you think will it be.

Please be aware of false claims by brands calling Polyester as Du Pont (Invista) Cordura.

A full textile jacket is not suitable for city rides, I agree sweat is better than blood, but if you sweat so much that you never want to wear it what the use.

And just wait for a day, I am about to finish my review on Sastec vs Knox and I bet some huge bluff being called in the review. The Huge Level 2- Gimmick I must say!

Okay even if we accept DuPont is better which it is infact. Does that make Tornado pro a textile jacket ? or give it the protection levels of a textile jacket ? No it doesn't.

There are many types of cordura and invista always outsources them, doesn't manufacture any. You will find Maxtex, Polydura and many others manufacturing Cordura under a formal license from Invista Fabrics.

And level 2 gimmick ? Level 1 armour from Knox is pretty crap ! Its not even a little malleable let alone it's property of taking an impact and the force transfer rate. And if it's a gimmick as you said, why does Knox itself make a level 2 back armour ?

Knox in Rynox pants is known to cause rashes for many and we all know the SuperFabric or whatever name Rynox uses for the fabric on bums and the stories of it tearing up for many. Solace uses leather on bums, that basically sums up the marketing gimmick employed by Rynox here.

They even removed YKK zippers from current T Pro i heard. That's Rynox for you. Love it or hate it, they are good at marketing and sub-par at manufacturing.

You may defend the brand as much as you wish, even I have owned Rynox products in past. I won't say they are just the basic crap, they are good, but as much gimmicky too.

Ps Important thing - I would like to know from you how much a jacket from a good brand with full Cordura will cost ? (with a cordura tag, as you said this is important). Let me hear you.
Basic - Full Cordura with cordura nametag and sew tag and level 2 sas tec armour, do tell me. I shall post something after you reply.

Cheers !

[Somesh1902]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

I agree with some of the points here, and coming to the marketing part, Rynox's marketing game is strong that includes providing products to most popular rider's and motovloggers of the country and solace does none of it.

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

I agree with some of the points here, and coming to the marketing part, Rynox's marketing game is strong that includes providing products to most popular rider's and motovloggers of the country and solace does none of it.

We have a few crash stories on Solace gear too, haven't heard of the material giving up yet if it's that weak like the mesh of Rynox. Very overstated.
Ps I am in close contact with Rynox and Solace, will get them to reply on the points above. Hope to see a fruitful debate rather than a brand bashing starting here on xbhp.

Btw this made me remember something.

https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/universal-threads/4791-universal-riding-gear-thread-1508-print.html

[nadir]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Ps I am in close contact with Rynox and Solace, will get them to reply on the points above. Hope to see a fruitful debate rather than a brand bashing starting here on xbhp.

A fruitful discussion is what we all need. This will help us (those who don't know much, just the basics) to understand what we are wearing and paying for, and also to educate fellow riders.
And sooner or later, the words will fall on companies' ears too and probably they will take care of gimmick marketing (if they are doing so).
Ps- looking forward to Astrix's report on Rynox's Knox and Solace's Sas-tec

[masterminds]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread



Got this today.

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

A fruitful discussion is what we all need. This will help us (those who don't know much, just the basics) to understand what we are wearing and paying for, and also to educate fellow riders.
And sooner or later, the words will fall on companies' ears too and probably they will take care of gimmick marketing (if they are doing so).
Ps- looking forward to Astrix's report on Rynox's Knox and Solace's Sas-tec

Trust me on the fruitful thing, we all know sastec is far far far superior compared to Knox.

We all know Defender plus comes with Cordura hang tag and labels and sew tag too. For a fact even RE Safari jacket gets it in full Cordura with hang tag and labels for ₹4500 during sale.

There is nothing to prove on his part, really. But lets give him a chance. Would be fun.

It's time Rynox mends there ways. Marketing to play the best will never get them anywhere.

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Got this today.

You got it too fast didn't you [emoji14] Are you not on my WhatsApp group ? I made a reveal today.

[Siddhartha.S]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

If you can extend your budget a little, SMK Twister is for 4300 and its a complete value for money helmet.

I checked a store, he had MT helmet for ₹4250(forgot the exact name). But it doesn't have a sun visor. So out of these two, which is better? ( Between smk twister and MT)

[masterminds]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

You got it too fast didn't you [emoji14] Are you not on my WhatsApp group ? I made a reveal today.

To each his own brother, that's why we have so many brands, don't we ? [emoji111]

[Astrix]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Okay even if we accept DuPont is better which it is infact. Does that make Tornado pro a textile jacket ? or give it the protection levels of a textile jacket ? No it doesn't.

There are many types of cordura and invista always outsources them, doesn't manufacture any. You will find Maxtex, Polydura and many others manufacturing Cordura under a formal license from Invista Fabrics.

And level 2 gimmick ? Level 1 armour from Knox is pretty crap ! Its not even a little malleable let alone it's property of taking an impact and the force transfer rate. And if it's a gimmick as you said, why does Knox itself make a level 2 back armour ?

Knox in Rynox pants is known to cause rashes for many and we all know the SuperFabric or whatever name Rynox uses for the fabric on bums and the stories of it tearing up for many. Solace uses leather on bums, that basically sums up the marketing gimmick employed by Rynox here.

They even removed YKK zippers from current T Pro i heard. That's Rynox for you. Love it or hate it, they are good at marketing and sub-par at manufacturing.

You may defend the brand as much as you wish, even I have owned Rynox products in past. I won't say they are just the basic crap, they are good, but as much gimmicky too.

Ps Important thing - I would like to know from you how much a jacket from a good brand with full Cordura will cost ? (with a cordura tag, as you said this is important). Let me hear you.
Basic - Full Cordura with cordura nametag and sew tag and level 2 sas tec armour, do tell me. I shall post something after you reply.

Cheers !

1) If Invista now outsources them, they certainly also make sure that every product carrying authentic Cordura has a sew label to it saying 'Cordura', which Solace does not have and no matter how much you defend the defender. It will remain a fact !

2) Besides earlier you said Cordura is a gimmick by Rynox, then when I prove that its a material and not a gimmick because even Solace uses it, then you suddenly you agree that Cordura is a better material and then come up with theories of Invista licensing it and not manufacturing (besides I doubt this fact itself). So why does it not have a simple Tag or a sew label.

3) Knox does have level 2 back armors. Besides Knox protectors are really good ones not that Sas Tec are not, but wait until tomorrow to know more about what Sas Tec really is. Then you would know how Sas tec claims its level 2 protectors when it possibly could be not even at level 1 standards!

4) SuperFabric is a high abrasion resistant material which is used by brands like Rev'it and Rynox is not using Superfabric. The material at the bum is a simple anti-slide material. Besides if you are so updated about the Rynox Tornado Pro not using YKK, you may also be updated that the material in the pant has also been changed by Rynox.

5) So since you know Rynox has stopped using YKK in Tor Pro 2. Do you know which Zips they are using? Also are they not providing any lesser warranty with the new zips? Or Jackets with YKK zips are providing you some additonal warranty ? Hell No ! You are buying Rynox not YKK, so any problem with the zip will be taken care of by them. So stop the jazz about YKK as just another gimmick !

6) What I understand about Rynox is they market and they market well. But they have never made a false claim and thats not wrong ! Apple markets well, does it harm until their products are not crap ! Besides, Solace cannot get away just by saying "Its a good brand just they do not market". (Isn't that marketing in itself. Besides an inexpensive and a safe one.)

7) I have not come across a Jacket with Full Cordura Construction. I know Rynox and RE (Kaza -14k one) using authentic Cordura in their jacket, but again only at impact zone. Even RE mentions it explicitely that only at Impact zones they have used Cordura and the remaining jacket is made up of polyester fabric. Just like Rynox. Besides, even the RE Kaza Jacket has a sew label of Cordura and the same hang tag. Such brands who use genuine stuff market themselves as they do not make false claims !

While Solace seems to be having their own 750D Cordura construction without even a Cordura sew label. Also, they have mentioned as if the entire jacket is made up of 750D Cordura ( not even that it is used at impact zones etc). It is a bluff!

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

I agree with some of the points here, and coming to the marketing part, Rynox's marketing game is strong that includes providing products to most popular rider's and motovloggers of the country and solace does none of it.

You seem to have been researching on jacket since the month of May and infact even convinced with Solace Defender back then right so much so that you were agreeing to all good points about Solace mentioned by your same old friend (Parth)- https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/univers...508-print.html.

Stirring up the thread again, to once again agree with your same old friend who supports Solace and bashes Rynox again! Solace has some real indirect marketing happening, why do they even need to market!

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Trust me on the fruitful thing, we all know sastec is far far far superior compared to Knox.

We all know Defender plus comes with Cordura hang tag and labels and sew tag too. For a fact even RE Safari jacket gets it in full Cordura with hang tag and labels for ₹4500 during sale.

There is nothing to prove on his part, really. But lets give him a chance. Would be fun.

It's time Rynox mends there ways. Marketing to play the best will never get them anywhere.

1) Knox is better than Sas Tec will be known soon!

2) Defender is not even using Cordura and thus no sew label (of authenticity). Besides if you talk about the RE Jacket, yes they do use authentic Cordura but then RE very specifically mentions that it is just used at the impact zones and they still use a tag. Solace, on the other hand, takes the liberty to mention that their entire jacket is 750D Cordura and still no sew label
And we talk about Gimmicks, False Claims, and marketing by Solace!

"While you say there is nothing to prove on his part and lets give him a chance". Sounds like you have some gang or group of people to support you (with you being their leader) on the forum and all set to take on 1 fellow who is just being true to the product that he has used and researched!

[Somesh1902]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

1) If Invista now outsources them, they certainly also make sure that every product carrying authentic Cordura has a sew label to it saying 'Cordura', which Solace does not have and no matter how much you defend the defender. It will remain a fact !

2) Besides earlier you said Cordura is a gimmick by Rynox, then when I prove that its a material and not a gimmick because even Solace uses it, then you suddenly you agree that Cordura is a better material and then come up with theories of Invista licensing it and not manufacturing (besides I doubt this fact itself). So why does it not have a simple Tag or a sew label.

3) Knox does have level 2 back armors. Besides Knox protectors are really good ones not that Sas Tec are not, but wait until tomorrow to know more about what Sas Tec really is. Then you would know how Sas tec claims its level 2 protectors when it possibly could be not even at level 1 standards!

4) SuperFabric is a high abrasion resistant material which is used by brands like Rev'it and Rynox is not using Superfabric. The material at the bum is a simple anti-slide material. Besides if you are so updated about the Rynox Tornado Pro not using YKK, you may also be updated that the material in the pant has also been changed by Rynox.

5) So since you know Rynox has stopped using YKK in Tor Pro 2. Do you know which Zips they are using? Also are they not providing any lesser warranty with the new zips? Or Jackets with YKK zips are providing you some additonal warranty ? Hell No ! You are buying Rynox not YKK, so any problem with the zip will be taken care of by them. So stop the jazz about YKK as just another gimmick !

6) What I understand about Rynox is they market and they market well. But they have never made a false claim and thats not wrong ! Apple markets well, does it harm until their products are not crap ! Besides, Solace cannot get away just by saying "Its a good brand just they do not market". (Isn't that marketing in itself. Besides an inexpensive and a safe one.)

7) I have not come across a Jacket with Full Cordura Construction. I know Rynox and RE (Kaza -14k one) using authentic Cordura in their jacket, but again only at impact zone. Even RE mentions it explicitely that only at Impact zones they have used Cordura and the remaining jacket is made up of polyester fabric. Just like Rynox. Besides, even the RE Kaza Jacket has a sew label of Cordura and the same hang tag. Such brands who use genuine stuff market themselves as they do not make false claims !

While Solace seems to be having their own 750D Cordura construction without even a Cordura sew label. Also, they have mentioned as if the entire jacket is made up of 750D Cordura ( not even that it is used at impact zones etc). It is a bluff!

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----



You seem to have been researching on jacket since the month of May and infact even convinced with Solace Defender back then right so much so that you were agreeing to all good points about Solace mentioned by your same old friend (Parth)- https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/univers...508-print.html.

Stirring up the thread again, to once again agree with your same old friend who supports Solace and bashes Rynox again! Solace has some real indirect marketing happening, why do they even need to market!

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----



1) Knox is better than Sas Tec will be known soon!

2) Defender is not even using Cordura and thus no sew label (of authenticity). Besides if you talk about the RE Jacket, yes they do use authentic Cordura but then RE very specifically mentions that it is just used at the impact zones and they still use a tag. Solace, on the other hand, takes the liberty to mention that their entire jacket is 750D Cordura and still no sew label
And we talk about Gimmicks, False Claims, and marketing by Solace!

"While you say there is nothing to prove on his part and lets give him a chance". Sounds like you have some gang or group of people to support you (with you being their leader) on the forum and all set to take on 1 fellow who is just being true to the product that he has used and researched!

I am in no way related to solace or any other brand.
I am just agreeing to the points which seems to be correct according to my research about the product.
And they are the facts which you are denying. Besides i don't know anyone here personally so that i can gang up and spoil the name of rynox.
I am just stating the facts here which i guess you don't seem to like.
Anyways you have your opinion and i also have mine. so can we please share the knowledge which would be of helpful to others rather than pointing out each other in the name of brands.[emoji111]

[Astrix]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

I am in no way related to solace or any other brand.
I am just agreeing to the points which seems to be correct according to my research about the product.
And they are the facts which you are denying. Besides i don't know anyone here personally so that i can gang up and spoil the name of rynox.
I am just stating the facts here which i guess you don't seem to like.
Anyways you have your opinion and i also have mine. so can we please share the knowledge which would be of helpful to others rather than pointing out each other in the name of brands.[emoji111]

Hey ! You got me all wrong buddy.
I just said that you were quite convinced with everything in the month of May so again stirring the same topic and then again the same person commenting the same points.
Just seemed like Solace was kept on the top-of the-mind on this forum. Retargeting !

While you seemed to have not agreed to any of my points though buddy. Maybe/ Co-incidentally all my points were not found to be facts by you- not now or back then(https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/univers...508-print.html.)! While all point about Solace were found to be facts by you- even now and back then (https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/univers...508-print.html.)!
Felt Strange, so pointed out.

Anyway as you said we all have our choices and it's better we don't point fingers at each other or bash brands out here.

[Pancham Hegishte]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

I checked a store, he had MT helmet for ₹4250(forgot the exact name). But it doesn't have a sun visor. So out of these two, which is better? ( Between smk twister and MT)

IMO MT has a better shell, but SMK coming with Pinlock is a deal-breaker! So whichever you feel comfortable in after trying should be your choice.

[Ave2592]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

IMO MT has a better shell, but SMK coming with Pinlock is a deal-breaker! So whichever you feel comfortable in after trying should be your choice.

Hi. This thread might be more appropriate to answer to this question of yours since it specifically for that.

https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/showthread.php?t=4790

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

1) If Invista now outsources them, they certainly also make sure that every product carrying authentic Cordura has a sew label to it saying 'Cordura', which Solace does not have and no matter how much you defend the defender. It will remain a fact !

2) Besides earlier you said Cordura is a gimmick by Rynox, then when I prove that its a material and not a gimmick because even Solace uses it, then you suddenly you agree that Cordura is a better material and then come up with theories of Invista licensing it and not manufacturing (besides I doubt this fact itself). So why does it not have a simple Tag or a sew label.

3) Knox does have level 2 back armors. Besides Knox protectors are really good ones not that Sas Tec are not, but wait until tomorrow to know more about what Sas Tec really is. Then you would know how Sas tec claims its level 2 protectors when it possibly could be not even at level 1 standards!

4) SuperFabric is a high abrasion resistant material which is used by brands like Rev'it and Rynox is not using Superfabric. The material at the bum is a simple anti-slide material. Besides if you are so updated about the Rynox Tornado Pro not using YKK, you may also be updated that the material in the pant has also been changed by Rynox.

5) So since you know Rynox has stopped using YKK in Tor Pro 2. Do you know which Zips they are using? Also are they not providing any lesser warranty with the new zips? Or Jackets with YKK zips are providing you some additonal warranty ? Hell No ! You are buying Rynox not YKK, so any problem with the zip will be taken care of by them. So stop the jazz about YKK as just another gimmick !

6) What I understand about Rynox is they market and they market well. But they have never made a false claim and thats not wrong ! Apple markets well, does it harm until their products are not crap ! Besides, Solace cannot get away just by saying "Its a good brand just they do not market". (Isn't that marketing in itself. Besides an inexpensive and a safe one.)

7) I have not come across a Jacket with Full Cordura Construction. I know Rynox and RE (Kaza -14k one) using authentic Cordura in their jacket, but again only at impact zone. Even RE mentions it explicitely that only at Impact zones they have used Cordura and the remaining jacket is made up of polyester fabric. Just like Rynox. Besides, even the RE Kaza Jacket has a sew label of Cordura and the same hang tag. Such brands who use genuine stuff market themselves as they do not make false claims !

While Solace seems to be having their own 750D Cordura construction without even a Cordura sew label. Also, they have mentioned as if the entire jacket is made up of 750D Cordura ( not even that it is used at impact zones etc). It is a bluff!

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----



You seem to have been researching on jacket since the month of May and infact even convinced with Solace Defender back then right so much so that you were agreeing to all good points about Solace mentioned by your same old friend (Parth)- https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/univers...508-print.html.

Stirring up the thread again, to once again agree with your same old friend who supports Solace and bashes Rynox again! Solace has some real indirect marketing happening, why do they even need to market!

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----



1) Knox is better than Sas Tec will be known soon!

2) Defender is not even using Cordura and thus no sew label (of authenticity). Besides if you talk about the RE Jacket, yes they do use authentic Cordura but then RE very specifically mentions that it is just used at the impact zones and they still use a tag. Solace, on the other hand, takes the liberty to mention that their entire jacket is 750D Cordura and still no sew label
And we talk about Gimmicks, False Claims, and marketing by Solace!

"While you say there is nothing to prove on his part and lets give him a chance". Sounds like you have some gang or group of people to support you (with you being their leader) on the forum and all set to take on 1 fellow who is just being true to the product that he has used and researched!

1- Solace Defender Plus comes with a Cordura sew tag as well as hang tag. It seems you have not even used or purchased one yet.

2- I never said Cordura is a gimmick, I said calling it DuPont Cordura is a gimmick while the brand is nomore related to DuPont anymore. Can you read this ? And I repeat, Defender Plus has a sew tag as well as hang tag.

3- Then you mean to say D3o is level 2 for noobs and everyone should go with crappy level 1 Knox protectors ? I don't see a reason to this. Open any international or Indian forum, everyone knows Sastec is just better at each and everything.

4- Rynox still does advertise the bum fabric as supergrip fabric and it has not been changed yet. Besides, we all know about Knox rash.

5- So now you mean to say YKK is a gimmick ? Anything that is sub-standard and will last the warranty period is good to go ? Really ?

6- Rynox and Apple ? Hahaha what are we comparing here ? Rynox has tie ups with knox, not that they do not want to use sastec in one of their products. Don't be surprised if you see a sastec protector in a Rynox product in future.

7- I should add a picture of RE safari with hang tag for you here. It is a Cordura construction and as you said, RE won't false advertise.

8- AGAIN ! Solace gets a hang tag as well as sew tag.

I see you promoting Rynox here and your replies have just been limited to this thread. Don't be a tart and promote Rynox all day. I have also suggested Rynox to many and Solace to others, biking community knows me since long. Stop your brand promotion here and now please.

1A- Knox will never be better than Sastec, it's not even malleable to body shape, what will you do ? Make Knox malleable ? :chargrin:

2A- I do not need a gang of people to support a fact. Rynox is and will remain a good jacket, and a good marketer. But we all know Solace is just better with it. Stop being a fanboy now.



Now please enlighten me here, as you said "Cordura is pricey", how can RE provide cordura with level 2 sastec in a ₹4500 jacket. Are they misleading ?
Also how can Rynox provide it on Rynox Air GT v2.0 ?
What Rynox does is separate Cordura and DuPont cordura whenever they like to. Using two different grades of Cordura and then starting on DuPont advertising. Why use name of DuPont when the fabric doesn't belong to them anymore ? Sheer marketing.
(yes Cordura comes in many grades, check the site you gave us yourself for more).