Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Happened to travel from Chennai to Balharsha by GT Express and was a bit disappointed to find a WAP-4 Loco instead of a Diesel Loco ( what I wished to see)..The running time for the 880 Kms was roughly 14 hrs...When I looked up average it was a abysmal 62 Kmph .What was shocking was the top speed limit indicated as 110 Kmph on the train schedule....On return I took the Prestigious Tamilnadu Express again hoping to see a Diesel Loco, and again disappointed to see a WAP-4 Loco..But Tamilnadu Express has only Two stops before reaching Chennai ,so was hopeful of faster running and shorter journey time...alas leaving at 5.15 PM the train reached Chennai at 7.15 AM the next day..almost 14 hrs...and again the overall average was indicated as 65 Kmph , and a top speed limit of 110 kmph..
While RDSO and IR are testing faster running Locos and Coaches,and strengthening the rails to cope with the speeds, the overall running of the Trains had been at a Lower speed with higher running time..
So what exactly is happening with IR...are they afraid to run trains even at the previous speeds of 120 Kmph because they are not sure of the tracks, or coaches, or maintenance.. ? and all this at a time when a Bullet Train is being planned for regular use..
Either the IR management is going downhill on resources, planning, and confidence level, or we are taking a planned step back wards...both of which is not good..

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Very interesting system sir...Wonder if anyone has actually adopted this or this is still in the concept stage.

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Probably a planned step back as the new govt. would want to present a clean track record at the end of their tenure.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

The JD Rail Solution is an Australia based company , and as per them the " Smart Track " concept of rails was developed for the Australian Bullet Train . They claim to be in business of Rail innovation for the past 90 yrs, and going by the Service Network and staff numbers, seem to be a legit company with accomplishment.. They have published the design of various types of track depending on the terrain and usage and hold patent of them...As for implementation the concept and execution is new and in infant stage in Australia...

Regarding the slowing down of the Trains, a little exploration of travel times of trains through various sector shows that the fastest ie., 110 kmph is allowed mostly in the Southern area..if they are aware of poor maintenance in the Northern sector , then why can't they correct it...?
Secondly Traveling back from Balharsha in Tamilnadu Super Fast exp.,( what a joke )my family was given berths of 2 in one AC compartment ,2 more in an adjoining one, and 2 more in another..While traveling I found most of the train was empty , and all of us could have been given our berths in same compartment...Clearly there is something seriously wrong happening.Tamilnadu express used to do Delhi to Chennai in approximately 24 hrs...now it is 33 hrs...and GT takes 35 hrs... Tamilnadu Express has 11 stops along the way while GT has 41 stops...so If you see the punctuality, the trains are always on time...what a joke this is turning out to be..

I now sincerely hope Bullet train does not come to India, because, we suddenly seem incapable of running trains safely...may be on time since timings have been stretched and Super Fast Express runs like old passenger trains...

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.


Hello PSR Sir,

Your calculation of average speed is including any station stops and signal stops, which I believe will always be the same 65 Kmph for that train because most of the trains are sticking to their schedule right???

I have observed an intelligent schedule that is being followed by IR for the express train to follow their punctuality, for example look at the image below.
in onward journey, the 8 kms(from stop 17-18) is scheduled to be covered in 70 mins, where as in return journey the same 8 kms(from stop 1-2) is covered in 12 mins



So i believe they are setting them self a target that they will achieve easily, than to push their self and provide a better/faster service.

And one more question from my end, the same above mentioned train is being pulled by 2 Diesel Loco(forgive me for not observing what type of loco it is), both of which are running and pulling ~20 coaches. when i inquired the same to one of the Railway official, he said that 2 loco's are used to pull this lengthier train at normal speed. is it really necessary to use this?

I believe that the friction between the rail and track is very low(compared to other form of transport), so once the train is in move not much of power is required to maintain the speed? Am i wrong.

Ram

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

The Average speed is calculated from starting station to destination in Kms and time taken to reach from one end to the other. While this average was less time and higher average speed before, now it is more time and less speed...Many improvements to track and signalling have taken place , which helps in better handling of traffic and higher loads are possible due to heavier load carrying capacity of Rails.
IR in North is mostly driven by WAP Electric Locos citing better efficiency and lower running costs...while in actual fact if power generation for the Loco is also taken into consideration, then it is not viable...then there is the fact of grid power failure, which would strand the Train midway .
Some times 2 Locos may be used if it is a Rajdhani with two generator coaches for AC etc.,with all AC coaches, and the train has to maintain a schedule..We still do have old WDM2s of 2400HP along with upgraded WDM3s of 3,000 Hp and upwards..the GE WDP4 and 5 series use the more efficient 2 stroke diesels of 4,500 HP and above..
Still IR uses Diesel Locos mostly for Coal and Iron ore wagons and rarely use the WAP Electric Locos.
Using multiple units of Electrical or Diesel Locos is done to ensure that the Initial torque required to start the train moving(Kinetic energy) is developed by the Engines. Every engine has a value for pulling effort called " Tractive Effort "and the number of coaches attached is based on this...similarly the braking effort is also twice as good with two or more engines ....The average weight of a Loco is 120 tons...

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

In spite of Past Experience and having the comparison charts of Diesel Electric Locos Versus Electric Loco operating and maintenance cost , The ministry for Railways had taken the decision to go for more Track Electrification and Import of Electric Locos at a whopping cost . The move is likely to throw the whole schedule of trains out of gear due to power outage and break downs..

Recent Study had clearly shown that the Failure of Electric Locos was Surprisingly high at 169 for the last year, out of 4,500+ Locos , whereas there were only 140+ in Diesel Locos with a strength of 5500+ Locos in operation...Clearly this shows that The Most Important Reliability Factor is more for the Diesel Locos. The study also showed that more than 60+ overhead line faults had occurred ,leaving many Electric Locos stranded on the line and thus blocking Traffic..

Similarly Track cracks are also increasing....And all these reports are as studied in Southern Railways, which is known for meticulous maintenance....



If this plan goes through, then we can brace for unreliable trains , with equally unreliable schedule ...

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

@psr sir and others,

From USA:

Here is an interesting 'travelogue' series noted down by a retired BNSF locomotive pilot/driver ('engineer' in US terms). Most of it was written while he was serving the railroad.

The photos are wonderful. The experience is from the driver's seat, typical (and not so typical) railroad workdays.

Tales From The Krug

Below are beautiful write ups on US Freight trains air brake system, HP versus Tractive effort, Amps versus Tractive effort, etc by the same Gentleman.

RR Facts and Figures

From India:

Another interesting site relating to Indian Electric Locomotives:

Welcome to eLocoS

We can access 'Driver's operating and troubleshooting manuals' here:

Electric Locomotives

Another interesting and my favorite section of the site - here we can see why a particular train (under electric traction) was delayed on a particular day. Reason can be something as simple as "box boy" not turning on time or something intricate like a fuse blowing off in the loco.

Navigate/use "Details of Punctuality loss cases(Territorial)" , enter a date range say September 2, 2018 to October 2, 2018 and have fun!


I sign off this post with a picture of a beautiful locomotive clicked by me at Renigunta (Code:RU) 12 years back when I used to simply travel in the trains just for the love of it. It is a mixed traction locomotive (Freight and Express hauler), original Hitachi design on the early WAMx converted to WAM-4 by CLW.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Thanks for the post and interest shown...My specific interest is mostly in Diesel Electric Locos , because they are practical, Carry their own motive power, and with new innovations including the 2 stroke Diesel engine, is more efficient,has more power, and India has mastered the art of Manufacturing, use and Maintenance of the Diesel Electric..
The GE SD70 series is what had been offered in the WDP4 series Locomotives..Our RDSO innovative applications had turned this 4,000 HP Loco to 4,500 HP without cost escalation, and in fact had reduced manufacturing cost by use of IGBT traction control and 32 bit TCC both designed to perfection by RDSO...Now Siemens who were making these parts with GTOs and 16 bit TCC ,and refused to do technology transfer to us, have started using our design and applications under license from us...RDSO had also understood that same Loco can be made to be used as a Passenger hauling one by increasing speed ,through gear ratio in Axle and used as a Goods Hauler with more tractive effort by changing same final drive gear ratio on the Axle...
As some one Lucky enough to have traveled in the leading Cab of Locos from the Steam era to ,both Meter gauge YDM Locos,and YAM Electric Locos, as well as the many varieties of the ALCO WDM series broad gauge Locos, I was blessed to see the transition of improvement our RDSO is making in the IR ...

RDSO has a habit of coming up with innovations benefiting our country , including the recent WDG 5 series 5,500 HP Locomotives using GE 20 cylinder engine, with an astounding 560 KN Tractive Effort..

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Train 18: Made-In-India engineless vestibule to begin trials
Per media reports, the Research Design and Standards Organisation (RDSO) will be testing an engineless train for 80 days in three phases. Called Train 18, it is claimed to be the first engineless train conceptualised, designed and manufactured in India.

Hope Integral Coach Factory (ICF) clears its bad rep for QC with this offering, which certainly looks good in pics.
[MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] sir, any insights on this?



Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/66333144.cms

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

The " Train 18 " is a MEMU. ie., Multiple Electrical Multiple Units. So it runs on electricity just like our regular Mumbai Local and Metro .
The main difference is it is Aero dynamically designed on the lines of the Bullet train , with matching Electronic traction control and Loco Pilot control unit , body is fully Stainless Steel construction , is Electro Pneumatic brake controlled ,Disk Brakes ,and is Capable of doing 180Kmph. Right now it is being put through it's phases and slowly increasing the running speed to understand the dynamics . In first Trial run the train will do 100 Kmph speed and then will be run at 120 then 140 then 160 and finally at 180 Kmph.
This does not mean that the train will be run at the max 180 Kmph at any time. When testing is finally over RDSO plans on certification for 160 Kmph only keeping at least 10% margin for safety and Reliability.
A total of 6 trains are to be built by ICF out of which 2 will be with sleeper berths, and rest all AC chair cars..



The coaches are user friendly with a plethora of useful add ons like Wi-Fi , GPS etc. Every unit will also contain a wheel chair for the physically challenged.

Here are some of the features :

* Automatic doors with retractable footstep.


* Onboard Wi-Fi and infotainment.


* GPS-based passenger information system.


* Modular toilets with bio-vacuum system.


* Improved centre couplers to lessen jerk impact.


* Electro-pneumatic brake system with brake discs mounted directly on wheel discs to reduce the braking distance.


* All coaches are AC chair-car type (executive class as well as second class) including the driving cab


* Continuous window glasses for contemporary look.


* The executive class will have rotating seats which can be aligned in the direction of travel.


* Modular luggage rack with glass bottom.


* New bogie design with fully suspended traction motors.


* Roller blinds and diffused LED lighting.


* Halogen-free rubber-on-rubber flooring.


* Space for wheelchair.


* Accessible toilet for persons with disability.


All of this is the result of some of the best brains in RDSO who have been given encouragement and a free hand to develop new ideas which will benefit the passengers..

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Wonderful. Hope we deserve this train!
Coming to the point I quoted above, if I were the kid traveling in an Exec boggie, I'd be swinging both directions till either I or my parents turn mad.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

I still remember what happened to the world class AC sleeper amenities . When the cleaning people came they were shocked to see the worst condition of the seats, bathrooms, and the common walk way ..in which our respectable user had left it ....

Not to forget the 30% of LED monitors stolen from the AC Chair car inaugural run...

Even today the Bed sheets,pillows,pillow covers and woolen covers in AC class compartments are regularly stolen by users...

Ground up we need education from 1st std., on basic etiquette and responsible behavior..

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

The saddest part is education is there even before 1st std, and most of the time doesn't cover these things [emoji36].

Coming to the am amenities, most people have a mentality that what ever is not ours it's not our responsibility to maintain the same. So they are not bothered about the damage they are causing when using those features.

Hope all the features mentioned will be maintained well by both IR and the users.

Ram

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Mr.Narendra Modi is to flag off the official running of the Train 18 between Agra and Delhi on Dec 29 2018. The train is capable of running at 180 Kmph and expected to replace the Shatapdi and other Super Fast Express on fast routes.

On December 20 as trial run at a steady 181 Kmph was done in runs between Agra and Delhi Stones were hurled at the Train damaging the glass Windows.
Authorities are trying to find out who are the miscreants and nab them..
This seriously throws up a question , " Are we ready for such High Speed Trains and Do we desrve them ? ". Already passengers are stealing LCD displays, pillows,bedsheets etc., and it seems we don't deserve designs and facilities meant for improved travel experience..

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

The Ministry of Railways are planning on a major track and Loco conversion to Electris due to the seemingly better efficiency, though past calculation had proved that the Diesel Locos are the best under all conditions since it carries it's own motive power.

Since there is close to 5,000 Plus WDM/DG model Locos which IR was planning on slowly converting to scrap, DLW Varanasi had come up with a novel idea. They had proposed in 2017 to convert a few WDMs to Electric Traction with MUing capability. The Ministry and RDSO had given the go ahead, since it will save IR a lot of money in building the Loco Chassis and infrastructure ....and thus started the experiment of WDMs becoming Electric Locos.

By Sept 2018 the first conversion was made as TWIN units with 5,000 HP capacity each ie., 10,000 HP when MUed...

These coverted Locos have ID as WAGC3 ... A new Star is born now.

Because they are MUed back to back there are Twin Cabs ...

Our PM had flagged off this Loco on Tuesday and IR hope to save a lot by this conversion process....

A few Pictures...



The first time the Loco came out for a small trial run in March 2018..




A video of Walk around the Loco in Sept 2018 at the DLW Varanasi works when the staff and their family were given first glimpse of the Working WDGC3.