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100W HID on TVS Fiero!

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  • #76
    I've got something worth to read and easily digestible for noobs like me about the CDI Vs IDI. Here's it:

    DI –Inductive Discharge Ignition: Inductors and Capacitors are the important components in modern ignition systems. Most manufacturers choose digital CDI – Capacitor Discharge Ignition system but TVS has opted for IDI – Induction Discharge Ignition system. Earlier manufactures moved to CDI from IDI because of the following problem with IDI. IDI are driven off points which trigger a coil that sends a charge to the spark plug. However, they require exact points and plug gap settings. This drawback made many manufacturers to move to CDI. Capacitors in CDI recharge quickly and hence deliver multiple spark at low rpm or strong till 10000 rpm. The CDI has its own drawback i.e. CDI sparks are extremely short in duration and the amount of energy that can be delivered is also limited unlike the IDI which can deliver longer spark. TVS has opted refined IDI for its apache – employs a variation, micro controller circuit triggers the coil depending on the crank position without needing points. In the process, it generates a 1200 micro seconds (200 -250 micro seconds in other bikes) long spark with 60 milli Joules of energy as seen on some Royal Enfield bikes. Thus with the refined IDI TVS claims apache engine sparks twice as fat and last six times longer than its counterparts. This ensures better combustion (by burning lean mixtures) which means quick response from your apache when you accelerate your apache.

    IE surge – Intake Exhaust Resonator:
    The second most important technology which powers the Apache is IE surge – the decals (letterings) are nicely placed on the side panels of the Apache. IE surge is nothing but Intake and Exhaust resonator for strong 3500 – 5500 rpm thrust and by this you can reap the benefits of running a large diameter intake and exhaust headers without losing the associated part – throttle response issues. Intake resonator helps to improve the response of the bike. Connected to the air box, the resonator is basically a box which stores air, and then rushes the air to the combustion chamber when the throttle is suddenly opened cutting the ignition lag significantly. Exhaust resonator works like the exhaus-TEC (Torque Expansion Chamber) on Bajaj bikes. Exhaust resonance chamber is fitted on the tuned exhaust to enhance power delivery in the lower reaches of the power band. This technology is to use the exhaust energy thereby ensuring that sufficient levels of torque is available at low engine rpm levels and is optimized to provide torque distribution in the mid and higher range rpm levels.
    Next time when you push your apache I believe you can understand what it has!





    Here's another:
    Ignition FAQ

    Anemometry Do Pomiaru Pr?dko?ci Wiatru, Modu?y Steruj?ce Prac? Silnika | GILL
    oducts/digital_ignition/Introduction/4_CDIvsIIS.asp
    Last edited by sajjt; 04-01-2011, 03:23 PM.
    Do it Yourself, what so ever, if Possible
    -----------------------------------------
    sigpic
    After Market HID Projector Mod for Pulsar 150
    Flasher Enabled Head Light Flash for Just Rs.1/-

    Comment


    • #77
      nice info there.
      i've installed rtr's exhaust and we removed the exhaust resonator.
      as the bike doesn't have the intake resonator.

      it really feels the bike has become much responsive than before.

      @ abhi

      my exixting TPS has 6 wires coming out, i cannot make out which does what as all of these used to go to the CDI previously.
      the rtr one needs 2 plugs of 2 and 3 wires each.
      Giving a lot to a fiero.
      Expecting a lot from a fiero.

      Comment


      • #78
        Seems the Apache's TPS is somewhat complex. Where does all the wires go?
        Your biking tells a lot about the person you are!

        Comment


        • #79
          guys we should start a new thread on ignition systems...............
          sigpic

          Tyre Sizes _ Spark Plugs

          Headlight Focus _ Fork Oils

          All India xBhp Couple Riders Thread

          Ashtavinayak + Shirdi
          Purandar
          Raigad
          Dapoli
          Aurangabad
          Kaas Plateu & Thoseghar Waterfalls
          Purandar

          Comment


          • #80
            Thread going OT OT OT OT OT OT OT OT OT!

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by sajjt View Post
              I've got something worth to read and easily digestible for noobs like me about the CDI Vs IDI. Here's it:

              DI –Inductive Discharge Ignition: Inductors and Capacitors are the important components in modern ignition systems. Most manufacturers choose digital CDI – Capacitor Discharge Ignition system but TVS has opted for IDI – Induction Discharge Ignition system. Earlier manufactures moved to CDI from IDI because of the following problem with IDI. IDI are driven off points which trigger a coil that sends a charge to the spark plug. However, they require exact points and plug gap settings. This drawback made many manufacturers to move to CDI. Capacitors in CDI recharge quickly and hence deliver multiple spark at low rpm or strong till 10000 rpm. The CDI has its own drawback i.e. CDI sparks are extremely short in duration and the amount of energy that can be delivered is also limited unlike the IDI which can deliver longer spark. TVS has opted refined IDI for its apache – employs a variation, micro controller circuit triggers the coil depending on the crank position without needing points. In the process, it generates a 1200 micro seconds (200 -250 micro seconds in other bikes) long spark with 60 milli Joules of energy as seen on some Royal Enfield bikes. Thus with the refined IDI TVS claims apache engine sparks twice as fat and last six times longer than its counterparts. This ensures better combustion (by burning lean mixtures) which means quick response from your apache when you accelerate your apache.

              IE surge – Intake Exhaust Resonator:
              The second most important technology which powers the Apache is IE surge – the decals (letterings) are nicely placed on the side panels of the Apache. IE surge is nothing but Intake and Exhaust resonator for strong 3500 – 5500 rpm thrust and by this you can reap the benefits of running a large diameter intake and exhaust headers without losing the associated part – throttle response issues. Intake resonator helps to improve the response of the bike. Connected to the air box, the resonator is basically a box which stores air, and then rushes the air to the combustion chamber when the throttle is suddenly opened cutting the ignition lag significantly. Exhaust resonator works like the exhaus-TEC (Torque Expansion Chamber) on Bajaj bikes. Exhaust resonance chamber is fitted on the tuned exhaust to enhance power delivery in the lower reaches of the power band. This technology is to use the exhaust energy thereby ensuring that sufficient levels of torque is available at low engine rpm levels and is optimized to provide torque distribution in the mid and higher range rpm levels.
              Next time when you push your apache I believe you can understand what it has!





              Here's another:
              Ignition FAQ

              Anemometry Do Pomiaru Pr?dko?ci Wiatru, Modu?y Steruj?ce Prac? Silnika | GILL
              oducts/digital_ignition/Introduction/4_CDIvsIIS.asp
              nice info sajjit,pretty much cleared my doubts,btw can u explain the parabolic and flat curve.In case of parabola it seems the intensity is more than the flat curve,can you please clear the doubts at that point.That means the apache doesn't employ a cdi box?
              Last edited by velociraptor13; 04-03-2011, 10:14 AM.
              Socha Toh Locha.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by pavanchirmade View Post
                Thread going OT OT OT OT OT OT OT OT OT!
                Its all your fault Nano, you only started this, so start a new thread ASP like I said earlier.

                Originally posted by princesirohi View Post
                guys we should start a new thread on ignition systems...............
                Exactly thats what we need on this as we are highjacking the lighting thread.

                Originally posted by velociraptor13 View Post
                nice info sajjit,pretty much cleared my doubts,btw can u explain the parabolic and flat curve.In case of parabola it seems the intensity is more than the flat curve,can you please clear the doubts at that point.That means the apache doesn't employ a cdi box?
                Oops...... I never expected such a danger when posting that.... Dude, am just a listener here, let the masters reveal these. I just shared what I came across about IDI systems while go-ogling.

                Its become very tough to survive nowadays
                Do it Yourself, what so ever, if Possible
                -----------------------------------------
                sigpic
                After Market HID Projector Mod for Pulsar 150
                Flasher Enabled Head Light Flash for Just Rs.1/-

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by velociraptor13 View Post
                  nice info sajjit,pretty much cleared my doubts,btw can u explain the parabolic and flat curve.In case of parabola it seems the intensity is more than the flat curve,can you please clear the doubts at that point.That means the apache doesn't employ a cdi box?
                  We are going TOTALLY OT..just to clear your doubt
                  TVS Apache 150, RTR160 and RTR180 all have TCI/IDI..Most other bikes have CDI....
                  When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by velociraptor13 View Post
                    nice info sajjit,pretty much cleared my doubts,btw can u explain the parabolic and flat curve.In case of parabola it seems the intensity is more than the flat curve,can you please clear the doubts at that point.That means the apache doesn't employ a cdi box?
                    Yes CDI gives more intense sparks.
                    Your biking tells a lot about the person you are!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Fine I'll make a new thread on ignition systems, but what will i post there as a first post ??

                      shall i just copy and paste what saj wrote in the above post of his ?

                      what else is needed to know about ignition systems ?

                      Besides, do you guys have any information about how to avoid belt slippage sound ?
                      its very less though, but i can hear it at 40, if i ride slower or faster the sound disappears..
                      Giving a lot to a fiero.
                      Expecting a lot from a fiero.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        @NANO
                        Firstly,i appreciate your hard work and Congrats!

                        BUT
                        100W HIDs?got to ask,is it really necessary,esp. since a lot of work is required?

                        and ive read about 55w HID melting the usual reflectors....how is it so far?

                        and 100W HID in 220's projectors is pretty dangerous for the oncoming traffic right?220's prjectors are the most "glareyist" ive seen.
                        Last edited by RanjithMN; 04-05-2011, 11:36 PM.
                        Smoke rubber,not tobacco.

                        -Life Through-the-Lens
                        -For HELLA/VALEO [BMW/AUDI/FORD/LINCOLN/SKODA],P220,Aftermarket Projectors,pls contact me!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          @ ranjith

                          well, thanks a lot for the compliments.
                          regarding weather the 100w bulb is necessary or not, i had 2 35w hids installed, i wasn't satisfied, hence i went ahead with this mod.

                          as far as melting the reflector is concerned, let me clear a doubt.
                          a 35w hid, a 55w hid, a 75w hid and a 100w hid ALL EMIT SAME AMOUNT OF HEAT.
                          the difference between these is that the size of the xenon tube is different, its bigger in size in higher wattage bulbs.
                          a 100w hid kit has a standard H7 hid bulb which is 3 times bigger than a 35w hid bulb, that's all.

                          I've seen 35w hid kits burn pulsar's reflectors too.
                          the burning of the reflectors is to do with the quality of the kit, the one with the UV shield doesn't burn the reflector.

                          220's projector has a really sharp cut-off, but these @$$ holes don't know how to level the beam correctly, hence the glares are higher.
                          Like every other projector, even this one has a nice glare shield, but people don't know how to aligh it perfectly, hence it enters the eye and thus produces high glares.
                          I've already posted a pic where my front num plate is clearly readable even with the 100w bulb ON.
                          this one has no glares if seen above the cut-off, and i have set it up nicely to avoid glare problems.
                          Giving a lot to a fiero.
                          Expecting a lot from a fiero.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Interesting,i might have to jst check up on what i read.Infact i remember TRS asking their customers not to use >35W HID's since it was melting reflectors.Maybe im mistaken...will check up anyway.

                            and regarding 220's projectors.yes i agree none are aligned properly.
                            but usually good quality projectors glare only when we are looking at it exactly at the center...this angle isnt visible when mounted on vehicles...hence we dont find much glare but 220's glares from many angles and is really irritating...i use to think the 220's behind were "passing" at me !

                            anyway,glad you are happy with the set up!pls do update on its durability!

                            cheers
                            Ranjith
                            Smoke rubber,not tobacco.

                            -Life Through-the-Lens
                            -For HELLA/VALEO [BMW/AUDI/FORD/LINCOLN/SKODA],P220,Aftermarket Projectors,pls contact me!

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              @ nano - i disagree 100 watt hid will definitely produce more heat than a 35 watt one . suppose a 35 watt hid is 40 % effiecient then 60 % energy is lost in the form of heat . now in case of 100 watt hid heat will be 60% of 100 watt unless the luminous efficiency of the 100 watt hid bulb is way way more than a 35 watt one which is not true . so i guess a 100 w hid will produce more heat than a 35 watt one . a halogen wastes 90 % energy in the form of heat thats why govts. all over the world are encouraging use of cfls and leds . let me find some more links on this

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by NANOtechnology View Post
                                Fine I'll make a new thread on ignition systems, but what will i post there as a first post ??

                                shall i just copy and paste what saj wrote in the above post of his ?

                                what else is needed to know about ignition systems ?

                                Besides, do you guys have any information about how to avoid belt slippage sound ?
                                its very less though, but i can hear it at 40, if i ride slower or faster the sound disappears..
                                is it a screeching sound?
                                Socha Toh Locha.

                                Comment

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