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**nav75** · 09-10-2003, 04:44 PM

Exactly glifford.

I totally agree with you. But it was not me by rare-devil who stated that splendor is being sold so much because its engine is very reliable.

I ment to say that, agreed that splendor's engine is reliable but thats not the main reason why so many splendors are still being sold. The reason is what u nicely wrote up.

**Rare-Devil** · 09-10-2003, 04:50 PM

well dear buddy nav, u got one thing wrong here : Splendour produces max power at 8500 RPM not 8000 RPM - so no comparos with caliber.

**nav75** · 09-10-2003, 04:53 PM

rare-devil its 8000rpm got this from hh site .. check out at

herohonda.com - This website is for sale! - herohonda Resources and Information.

http://www.herohonda.com/site/products/prod_pop.asp?prd=Splendor&typ=specification

This website is for sale! herohonda.com is your first and best source for information about herohonda. Here you will also find topics relating to issues of general interest. We hope you find what you are looking for!

**Rare-Devil** · 09-10-2003, 04:59 PM

ok my mistake (OD quoted it as 8500)
and i don't know abt the old caliber - hodibaba produces max power at 8000 RPM - same as splendour.

**nav75** · 09-10-2003, 05:05 PM

the figures of caliber I got from bajaj site, sadly they have removed caliber from the list now and replaced it with hoodibaba...I'll not compare hoodibab with splendor as its not in the market for long enough to prove its reliablity (long ELF, to be precise).

BTW shall we start looking for splendor and caliber owners?????

**Rare-Devil** · 09-10-2003, 05:06 PM

besides there are many other reliable engines that produce max power at 8500 RPM -

Boxer
P-150 (i own one - no engine probs at all)
Energy FX, Adreno FX
Yamaha YBX, YD 125

So there's no way u can definitely say or prove that high engine RPM means low Engine Life. Ok u had some arguments Nav, but they are just not solid enough to b considered proof. And i think this ends the argument (if u don't comeup with better reasons).

**nav75** · 09-10-2003, 05:12 PM

quote:Originally posted by Rare-Devil

besides there are many other reliable engines that produce max power at 8500 RPM -

Boxer
P-150 (i own one - no engine probs at all)
Energy FX, Adreno FX
Yamaha YBX, YD 125

So there's no way u can definitely say or prove that high engine RPM means low Engine Life. Ok u had some arguments Nav, but they are just not solid enough to b considered proof. And i think this ends the argument (if u don't comeup with better reasons).

Rare-devil first u plz tell me what u have understood when "I said that new p180 will have low ELF as compared to Karizma". I have my reply ready about this post of ur. Will post that after I see ur reply.

Also how many km's u have covered on ur p150???

**rash_rp** · 09-10-2003, 05:38 PM

quote:Originally posted by satya

"Wow !!! U saw the bike ??? C'mon man, the bike is not yet on road, no test versions even, so its just not possible u seeing one. All road testing is being done on Bajaj's test track at akurdi"

well whoever has said this is wrong
coz i had seen the bike in front of the bajaj showroom in wakdewadi with two testers wearing silver helmets.the fairing was wrapped up in brown paper and a small gap was left in the front 4 the headlamp lite 2 fall on the road . and it was the same one that auto india had seen n published in their aug issue mh14 t 007/d
also had the guy wait under the same tree under i was waiting when it was raining and it was then i asked him 4 the exhaust tune of the bike n he was kind enuf 2 give me the keys n hear it 4 mself....so u r wrong

Satya, even I have seen the bike on road, just the same way in which u have. I saw it on the Pimpri Chichwad road, but I made my earlier comment cause the guy says that he saw the bike, and it zipped past him, never said whether it was in test process, or any such stuff.

**Rare-Devil** · 09-10-2003, 07:11 PM

quote:

What I meant was that if both bikes are runin properly and have a fault free engine, ridden alike and maintained well. Then new DTSi p180 engine will require work before karizma engine ... and that will be around 70,000-80,000km (estimated this period based on my exp on my fiero). .----Nav

This is precisely my understanding of ELF.

**nav75** · 09-10-2003, 09:21 PM

quote:Originally posted by Rare-Devil

quote:

What I meant was that if both bikes are runin properly and have a fault free engine, ridden alike and maintained well. Then new DTSi p180 engine will require work before karizma engine ... and that will be around 70,000-80,000km (estimated this period based on my exp on my fiero). .----Nav

This is precisely my understanding of ELF.

If this is what u agree with ... then it clearly means that new p180's engine will have less life than Karizma ... which is what I'm saying all the time, didn't I????

So what we are arguing about?

**rohit_180** · 09-11-2003, 03:38 AM

nav75 dont be so sure about elf of new pulsar being less than karisma. Maybe bajaj has used better materials on this engine, to reduce the frictional/thermal deterioration? And lets not forget that bajaj claims that this engine has no problems of knocking/ringing. So it doesnt mean that if engine produces max power at a higher rpm, its got lower elf than a engine which produces peak power at a lower rpm. That would be true only if the build quality and materials used were same 4 both.

**Rare-Devil** · 09-11-2003, 04:12 AM

wat u hav quoted there's precisely wat v r arguing abt.
Now nav, i know extactly wat u meant by ELF ok - Now let's get back 2 the main topic. Post wat u hav in store 4 me.

**ajith** · 09-11-2003, 08:39 AM

Code:

Factors		BP-180(Current)		Karizma
=======		===============		========
MaxPower  	15bhp @ 8000rpm		16.7bhp @ 7000rpm 
Max Torque 	13.2Nm @ 6500rpm	18.35Nm @ 6000rpm 
C.R		9.5 : 1			9.0 : 1           
Bore/stroke  	63.5 x 56.4mm		65.5mm x 66.2mm 
Ignition   	CDI electronic		Digital twin-map

Gear		Ratios	Kmph/1000rpm	Ratios 	Kmph/1000rpm
1st		28.43	4.30		2.769 	4.44        
2nd		18.31	6.68 		1.722 	7.14        
3rd		13.43	9.10 		1.263 	9.74        
4th		10.54	11.60  		1.000 	12.30       
5th		 8.98	13.62		0.815 	15.09       

Kmpl
Best  		50.4 kmpl		54 kmpl    
Worst 		36.0 kmpl		28 kmpl    
City 		NA			40 kmpl    
Overall 	43.2 kmpl		40.66 kmpl

Sources :

http://www.indiabike.com/roadtest/pulsaro/tech.htm

and

http://www.indiabike.com/roadtest/karizma_o/tech.htm

Both are from OD (Self-styled BP fans). So no argument on that now.

Throughout this small talk, we are referring to small differences, so we will not quibble over the quantum of these differences, but look at them objectively, just for technical purposes. My purpose of putting this up is that people who know and think differently can correct me where I am wrong.

Lets get started. First off, ELF of a vehicle is the expected Engine Life FACTOR of an engine heuristically deduced from its characteristics. Please pay attention to the word factor. This mean that we do not refer to what the life of a single engine would be. But the overall life across a large cross-section of vehicles in terms of mean time to failure and load tolerance.

Lets go down the chart point by point.

MaxPower : At this point, the engine is running at its peak efficiency. Max power at a lower RPM implies an engine that can spin over more lazily as it does its work. Also lower rpm implies lesser wear and tear of metal and rubber parts(seals and O-rings)
Max Torque : This is the point when combustion efficiency reaches its peak. Motors which develop max torque at lower RPM posses a lot of grunt and are unlikely to be revved into the higher RPM ranges.
C.R : The lower the CR, lesser the load on the gaskets, head bolts, lesser the blow-by losses. Lesser load on crankcase webbings, con-rods, crank-pin, crank bearings. Small differences here make a lot of difference.
Bore/stroke : Bore > Stroke = oversquare engine. Such engines are rev-happy and spin up very fast. The distance of the crank pin from crank centre is shorter, so they produce lesser torque. Bore < Stroke = undersquare engine. Such engines produce plenty of torque since the crank is larger( pin to centre distance is greater) and leverage is greater. But they tend to have lower rev-limits since the piston stroke is long.
Ignition : This is actually a little beside the point. Digital and all is great. The most hi-tech one will fail if it is a mismatch. As of now, we users have very little control here. If the manufacturers goof, we have no say. The CBZ CDI is supposed to be a case in point.
Gear Ratios : This is quoted differently by different manufacturers. Luckily OD gives the Kmph/1000rpm figures which are easier to read. Higher kph/krpm imply lower revs for the engine at the same speeds.
Kmpl : Just put in for comparison.

Would love to see similar figures compiled for the DTSi. Anyone game?

**arpandiv** · 09-11-2003, 08:54 AM

tyke,nice work. But u got the decimal placing in gear ratios of 180 wrong...

**ajith** · 09-11-2003, 09:04 AM

I couldnt help that. Thats the figure quoted in the page and i didnt want to modify any figures, lest i be accused of doctoring.

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Pulsar 180 - 70 kmpl under Std Test Conditions!

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