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Modified FZ16, FZ-S, Fazers owners Tech Talk

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  • Modified FZ16, FZ-S, Fazers owners Tech Talk

    Lets take the questions about modifying our bikes into a separate forum or a sub forum.

    I hope we can leave out the discussions in the main FZ ownership and move onto more technical talk, Mostly on how to make more power and tq.

    All are welcome to discuss the pro's and cons of different powermaking mods.
    Even if you own a stock FZ (or other bike) here is someplace you can come to learn and share your knowledge on bike engines.
    2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
    Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
    My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos

  • #2
    Topic Approved
    Advice is a form of nostalgia.
    Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

    Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

    Comment


    • #3
      I am waiting to see all the beautiful transformation of FZ. Thanks for starting this thread

      Smile at everyone you meet and make someone happy.

      Its better to sweat than bleed!! "AGATT "



      Comment


      • #4
        I bought my yellow/black 2011 FZ-S back in October 2011.
        I had ridden it for a few kms and already got bored of the power.
        After a few weeks I started to research powerup kits.

        I found Race Concepts with the 180cc kit, However the very long delays (sometimes a week) between email replies and the lack of answering my questions I started looking elsewhere.
        I ended up getting my 200cc kit elsewhere.
        Big Mistake, as Lucky Luc and myself have already verified.

        I ended up purchasing
        1. 200cc cylinder (66mm)
        2. Custom big valve head with bronze cryo'd valve seats (bull$hit job on this. Very very very very poor machining and work. Sent as incomplete)
        3. Custom high lift and duration cam. Very bad cam, paperweight now
        4. 66mm forged and supposedly cryo'd piston to suit the big valve head
        5. new cryo'd conrod (never arrived due to not being in production, the cost was used for additional shipping)
        6. dual row ballbearings for the engine crank. (got swapped out for single row bearings without my permission
        7. BRT dualmax CDI (incorrect model for my bikes wiring. Ver2)
        8. Mikuni TM28 carb. Supposed to have been rejetted to suit 200cc but was not
        9. Bodykit consisting of underbelly, engine side triangular pieces and front fork covers. Very poor finish on these pieces, did not line up at all and needed extensive reglassing and painting to fit and repair.
        10. Alloy
          swingarm. this was unsuitable for FZS and the custom chain needed (as the arm is longer than the stock arm) as the stock chain is a unbroken chain. The custom chain was cutting into the arm hense the removal of the aftermarket item.


        These parts took from the time I ordered in 1st week of December 2011 (bike was 2months old then) and it arrived in April 2012.

        I had done 13XXkms on my bike by then and went ahead with the engine modification.
        This was supposedly a "plug n play" install however every step of the way was met with setbacks.

        After 1week of repairing and completing the big valve head the engine was ready to be installed.
        The cam supplied was of very big lift. The supplied piston was not suitable for the big valve head. The machined reliefs were for factory sized valves, not the oversized valves I had.
        A RRGS forged piston was sourced and machined then installed.
        Factory cam used and after several mockups with plastercine to check for interference the engine was given the final assembly.
        full Synth Motul 10-40 oil was poured into my engine.

        A more suitable carb was selected and a rough tune was established and I took it for a test ride.
        Big improvement over the stock setup. A final tune was done and I rode around hard for the running in period.

        100km later I dropped the oil and filter.

        Fastforward to more recent times. A new carb has been fitted. A 33mm Keihin Airstriker was ordered along with a bigger longer K&N filter.
        Still needs to get a final tune done but this is again another improvement from the previous setup.
        New engine has done 700km's now. Hard riding, high revving, shifting without clutch. No problems so far

        I have taken numerous videos with my GoPro camera and posted on youtube.
        Look up FZSMIK and watch my videos.
        2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
        Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
        My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi all...although curious to see how many will be interested by discussions about mods on the FZs...???

          What Mik does not say is that both of us being in Vietnam, we are not allowed to have bikes over 175cc, unless being member of some "police" club (understand: pay money!), and have a license that is now very difficult and expensive to get (understand: buy!).

          So: we do with what we can have, unless we have a really huge amount of cash - or special connections (that works very well too!) and if we do not find our bikes powerful enough or anything that does not please us: we modify!

          I was last week end ant a big gathering organized by the "Honda CD 125" club (very old bikes!), who had invited others like the FZ club. Very pleasant, very friendly, and a couple hundred bikes there! I shall post pictures later but I tell you: there was not ONE FZ non modified!

          The most usual were "underbelly" body kit, giving these bikes a much better look (IMHO), and aftermarket exhaust mufflers, closely followed by rear disc brake (a good 50%!). A few had real engine mods, and the most extreme one would have been installing injection and turbo.....but he could not come with his bike....as it still does not work!

          Sorry then if I do not post lengthily right now on this new thread by Mad Mik (hi mate!), but I just spent a much too long time rectifying some wrong reading and judgment on the general FZ owership thread....!
          I shall describe, comment, recommend - or not - some of the mods I did on my Fazer, which, besides some cosmetics (Midnight Special decoration) are the following:

          Engine, gearbox:
          - 200cc with big bore kit with TDR semi-forged piston.
          - Combustion chamber reworked for 10.5:1 compression ratio
          - Kawahara racing valves, 2mm. larger diameter (= 26/ 32) and modified (stock) seats to suit.
          - Reworked intake and exhausts ports
          - 29 Mikuni CV carburetor and enlarged intake manifold to suit
          - Custom made stainless steel exhaust header and Arrow aftermarket muffler
          - NGK iridium spark plug
          - 2mm. thick washers under the clutch springs to cope with increased torque and power.
          - 15 teeth gearbox sprocket
          - K&N air filter for FZ-16

          Frame and body:
          - Rear brake disc
          - Twin HID headlights with angel eyes

          Still to come:
          - "Underbelly" body part
          - Oil cooler
          - High lift cam from Race Concepts
          - Race CDI from Race Concepts (waiting for confirmation of suitable connection for my bike)
          - Race clutch springs

          A few days ago, we had a ride with Mik together, and our bikes performance were very similar, Mik's showing a slight advantage....but I must say that I was with Db. killer on my muffler while Mik had his entirely free flow! Will be interesting to compare again (NOT race!) once Mik will be back, now that a few last mods have been done on his bike, and once mine will have been completed too. I guess we should still be very close....

          .....But that is not actually what matters! What does is how our bikes now perform, in every respect, compared with stock. I will say: it is awsome! Going up a 40 meters tall bridge and about 420 meters half width (= 10% slope), gives me a speed at the top of the bridge of 110 kmh! Try that with a stock bike! The max speed I have got so far (engine still not entirely "free") is 135 kmh., crouched and with - I must reckon! - a slight tail wind. Should do, I hope , a good 140 when all is completed. Mileage (let's not slip into this again!): less than stock, but unknown....and not measured. Sorry.

          I shall then discuss with pleasure on the detail of all these mods, why were they decided, etc....but for the moment: good night!
          Last edited by Lucky Luke; 02-05-2013, 01:46 PM. Reason: correcting bridge dimensions
          When I do something stupid, my consolation is to know that I'll do the worse one only once!

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Luc, welcome. I don't think there will be many people in here to discuss modifications.
            2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
            Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
            My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos

            Comment


            • #7
              Really interested in the Rear Disc mod and JJ's FFE.Are u facing any problems with the rear disc brake,Luke?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SpeedyKol View Post
                Really interested in the Rear Disc mod and JJ's FFE.Are u facing any problems with the rear disc brake,Luke?
                None at all!

                I had posted an extensive description of this installation quite while ago in the "pit stop". It will have sunk many pages down by now but you can still find it!

                The best thing with it is that the feeling on both front and rear brakes is similar: just apply pressure.....not to mention the heat dissipation and....the look. Once you have a rear disc brake, the bikes which have not look a bit "retard"!
                Honda CBR 150 (and 250, of course), KTM 125 (and 200), all the new bikes have rear disc.
                When I do something stupid, my consolation is to know that I'll do the worse one only once!

                Comment


                • #9
                  To really start the "technical" discussion on how to get more from our FZs, I will comment a bit about the very first one: increasing cylinder and piston size.

                  Both Mik and I have gone for 200cc. with a 66mm. bore. Joel Joseph, in the other hand, has gone for 180cc. with a 63 mm. bore, and he wrote to me that he doubts that the 3mm. extra increase is of any good since the swirl and tumbling of the gases will not be as good in this diameter than in the 63mm. one. I do not have the experience of Joel, for sure, and will a priori consider that he will be right in this affirmation. The video on Youtube where Joel rides one of his modified FZ to 135kmh is demonstrative enough!

                  I shall add to this that one guy here did fit a 63mm. high compression piston, no head work besides "cleaning" the ports, and he reports to have reached 145kmh and 135 kmh with his (tiny!) girlfriend! To be verified though, but the others confirm that his bike is effectively damn fast! On my bike, and with a 15 teeth sprocket (like Mik) I have once reached 135kmh fully crouched and with slight tail wind. Nothing really demonstrative on top speed with a 66mm. bore, then!!!

                  The torque, in the other hand, is! As I report in my earlier post here, to reach 110kmh after some 100/perhaps 150 meters up an approximately 10% slope is totally out of reach for a stock FZ (and I am 80+ Kg.)! The "thrust" in all the gears, starting at a mere 3/ 4,000 rpm. is that of a good standard 250, and continues all the way up to some 8,500 for me, farther up for Mik who has already got a programmable CDI that does not have the rev-limiter (@9,500 rpm) but also some more aggressive maps.

                  Conclusion, then, is difficult between 180 and 200 cc. since I have not yet been able to compare, but I would effectively tend to believe that 180cc. is the best for these bikes.

                  Still, some guys in Indonesia have pushed up to 225cc. with a 70mm. piston, which needed modification of the block to fit the larger sleeve, 28 and 34mm. valves, high lift camshaft, PE 28 carburetor (seems small to me..!!??), BRT dual band CDI, R9 exhaust, and reports to reach 140 kmh in fourth gear (...!!!), and estimates (?) over 150 in fifth.....!!??!?? I also have a report from "Oto Plus" magazine from another one, in Indonesia too, who has fitted a 66mm. piston, 28 and 34 mm. valves and reports a speed of "over" (?) 130kmh. So much depends on these top speed figures (slight slope, wind, tyre pressure, weight, size and riding gear of pilot, temperature and atmospheric pressure, accuracy of the meter and....reliability of the reporter!) that it is difficult to take them as absolute reference.

                  In a further post, I shall describe more in detail the piston itself, and the conicity of both piston and bore as I have, which are very much race bike features.
                  Last edited by Lucky Luke; 08-28-2012, 10:53 AM.
                  When I do something stupid, my consolation is to know that I'll do the worse one only once!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thread Moved to Pit Stop:General Biking Discussion
                    Advice is a form of nostalgia.
                    Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

                    Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lucky Luke
                      Mik,

                      May I suggest that you ask some administrator to move this thread in the "pit stop" since the "ownership" is sooooo busy (with the same repetitive questions...) that it will be sunk in the hundredth page in no time!
                      You can thank "antz.bin" for moving after I messaged him.

                      Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
                      Thread Moved to Pit Stop:General Biking Discussion
                      Thanks mate
                      2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
                      Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
                      My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        here are some pics

                        Unfinished head Automotivesparepartsstore sent me claiming it was complete, Note scratches, dings, clamp marks, incomplete valve seat lapping.

                        Wrong piston sent as part of my big valve head & 200cc. Combined with the mystery cam, you can see quite clearly where the valves hit the piston.

                        153cc piston in the 66mm/200cc cyl.

                        Some of the parts I bought from Haryono of Automotivesparepartsshop. Most of it was unuseable.

                        CDI from Wing Yap Motor. I am running map 6/8.
                        Attached Files
                        2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
                        Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
                        My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hat off two both of you guys!!!!!
                          reaching the height of modification of FZ........
                          Biker is not recognised by its byk but love for his byk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Guys want to ask you a is any FFE will work with FZ or would prefer to go with company specifically making FFE for FZ.
                            Recently went to byk market and owner of shop having hundered of FFE showed me the aluminium muffler having great sound and steel pipes to join the engine.
                            So should i go for that or is there any specific diameter of pipe and length to be taken care of.
                            Thanks
                            Biker is not recognised by its byk but love for his byk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kavit View Post
                              Guys want to ask you a is any FFE will work with FZ or would prefer to go with company specifically making FFE for FZ.
                              Recently went to byk market and owner of shop having hundered of FFE showed me the aluminium muffler having great sound and steel pipes to join the engine.
                              So should i go for that or is there any specific diameter of pipe and length to be taken care of.
                              Thanks
                              In generic Indian biker terms, are you buying the FFE for sound or for performance??.. WHat local vendors will sell you will give you more sound and a slight bump and that's about it..

                              There are well known manufacturers like Akrapovic, Leo Vince, Dagrex and others however the pipes are expensive.

                              If performance is the case then order stuff from Joel, Race Concepts. He also sells other major kits which are reliable;

                              1) 180CC Big Bore Kit
                              2) Semi Flat carburetor
                              3) Custom Camshaft
                              4) FFE which has been already mentioned before
                              5) Custom CDI (Still work in progress)
                              6) Racing Clutch springs

                              You can check Rylan's Thread FZ on Steroids for more information.


                              Cheers,
                              A quote by a toilet, " use me well, keep me clean, i would never tell anybody whatever i have seen.." :P

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