If we consider the difference in the design and manufacturing .....what can be the differences between local FFE and these company FFE including the JJ's that i want to knw

I have been following these threads for long time and big fan of JJ and his innovations but my main idea is to know the difference them and with all respect I dont like the design of JJ FFE

Some pics of the Yoshimura exhaust system. Cost is around SIN$6-800 for the complete system boxed, ready to bolt on.
Very pretty compared to the ugly (in my opinion and many others who I have shown) JJ FFE and there is no problem in the future with the finish of the pipe, muffler or the exhaust hitting the center stand/swingarm.

You can be assured that Yoshimura do their R&D until they have achieved the best end result. (yes I <3 Yoshi's )

To design a exhaust you must take into account the diameter, length and radius of the bends etc
Luc is more well versed in this than me so I'll wait for Luc to explain this.

Oh, no! not by far! Look at hat this guy did: turbo + injection:



Trouble is.....the amount of trouble: it still does not work

No way, dear, just have investigated a bit further down!

My first intention was to simply suppress all there is inside the "midship" muffler, including the loop forward of it inside which is the catalytic material (a platinum mix of I don't know what else!). For your information, that is what this mysterious "midship" muffler looks like inside:



But that would not have been enough with this 200cc. big bore kit from which I wanted to have max power! So, along went the research ....and the mistakes!

At first, I though clever just to copy the dimensions of the stock exhaust= 35 outside diameter, and had one header pipe made in stainless steel:



This was connected to a cute but tiny little muffler - if one can call it like that! - but with a big inside diameter (= little sound absorbing material) and the result was....well: NOISY! .....but not only that: all the nice flat torque curve we all appreciate in our FZ had gone! Nothing before 6,000 rpm! The reason was that - but I did not know it (Joel told me): there are two concentric pipes in our stock one, the inside one being much smaller!!!

What has to be known is that, basically: a small diameter header pipe is good for low revs power, while a big pipe is good fro high revs power. The other thing is the length, and this also depends from the revs at which you want to have the best results. None fits all, and it's all a matter of compromise....and of the speed of sound, something we cannot change!
Also very important is the length/ diameter of pipe before it is out of the exhaust, and also where a there is rapid enlargement of the diameter since a "pulse", caused by the "blows" of gases during the exhaust gets a "back-pulse" as a reaction when it arrives right at the opening of the muffler, and which then travels UP the pipe. If this "back pulse" arrives at the exhaust valve at the wrong moment, when the gases want to get out, it will obviously not work!!! If it comes in between and "bounces" on the closed valve, thus becomes a depression while the gases are ejected: very good! Roughly, that's what it is.
To be able to tune that properly is something people like Joel, or the many engineers in the main aftermarket muffler factories know well how to do. Me: don't ask me more!

But now, first and foremost, I would like to thank Joel for the numbers he nicely recommended to me for my 200cc. engine when asked him about his FF exhaust:
Header dia - 29 or 30mm - ID for - 22 inches long
collector - 8 inches long
muffler - 48mm - 18 inches long

Very nice of him! However, one very easy to use little program I found on the web is this link:
Exhaust Length,exhaust pipe,induction

The before and after Bottom Dead Center (BDC) angles can be ignored: put 35, for example. Then , if you enter 7300 rpm and 200cc., you will get the same results as what Joel gave me!

After a few more experiments with db killer in the tiny muffler, I then decided to go for a well known brand: Arrow. I would have liked the Yoshimura better, but could not find any. A smaller header pipe had already been made, 29mm. inside diameter and 56cm. long, and I only had to have the collector (the cone increasing diameter) and the "S" shape big pipe connecting to the new muffler done. A very nice job was done this time (sorry: the bike is dirty!!!), specially for the funny distorted "S" shape, and this without interfering with the center stand, the swing arm or any thing:





Result now:
While the absolutely necessary db killer had also killed the power at medium revs with the previous tiny muffler, I can now run entirely free flow. Well: you can hear me coming, sure! I even feel embarrassed sometimes, but then just throttle down and idle along gently!
The power?: absolutely great all the way long, from 3,000 to a maximum 8,000/ 8,500 rpm.....after what I feel the engine being sort of "restricted" a bit....???!?!?
I have fitted a K&N air filter, specially designed for the FZ16 (ref # YA 1611), but that still may not be enough air for the increased capacity, and a large cone maybe necessary. We are also still playing with the fine tuning....but refining this to the extreme will be done after I have received the race camshaft I have ordered from Joel. I shall then show you pictures of this one compared to the one I got, like Mik, from Indonesia!

Stay put: the story is not finished yet!

That Sun of a gun......what a machine but what waste if it dosent work

About the stock bike.....is it possible to make our own FFE or just a wastage of money on try n error method just go home collect money and buy the yoshi's or RC FFE.
As I am not that much in the figures and new with the byks so not able to understand your LINK's calculation and figures
You throw some light about the stock engine

I found this thread with some great information for our bikes.

I hope this is the ultimate airfilter for FZ16, take a look at this too.

Sadly you were right, The turbo setup didn't work.
Minh ( Tri Bui Minh | Facebook ) his facebook page
and I met up at KTL and we discussed his turbo setup.
He needed data for his EFI setup map but we are unable to get even a base map as no one has one. I told him to get a rough map to get your bike to idle, then slowly and carefully ride it with your wideband O2 logger attached and see what your AF's are at certain rpm and start building you map from there.

Previously his turbo setup (with carb) had started making boost around 6-8K RPM, too late to be of much use but (if I can remember) less than 1-2psi.

Great idea though. I was chatting to him early this morning on facebook and his bike was on hold for a while.
He and his friends had bought parts from Haryono and true to his word the parts were junk.

His friend Huan has a 180cc engine (possibly from RC) but no news on its performance.
These 2 guys toured all around the middle and top of Vietnam on what was supposed to be a 4day tour that turned into a 3+week adventure!

Exhaust comprises basically two parts: the "header" and the "muffler".

The header is that section of pipe that is connected by two bolts to the cylinder head, goes down in front of the engine, then under, etc....and finally connects with the muffler.

The muffler, or canister, or silencer can be that box that is right under your bike and which Yamaha calls "midship muffler" but that is most of the time called a "resonator" or "expansion chamber", just as well as the final one on the right side of the bike. It can also be a Free Flow Exhaust muffler, which on most bikes does not need a resonator, or just a small increase in the diameter of the header pipe, and only a silencer at the end of the header pipe.

The header pipe itself may have various sections: the very important first section is the one whose length and diameter are given by the program on the link I gave. After that, the diameter may increase by steps or more nicely by a conical section that will be called the "collector". One important thing to know is that the length of the small diameter section of the header pipe can be doubled and retain the same "pulse" characteristics. This is why yo can see some exhausts that are the same diameter all the way to the muffler, where it suddenly increases, or some with a "collector" that increases the diameter after the minimum length of header pipe from the cylinder head to that collector, which is then followed by a larger diameter section of pipe up to the muffler. I am not expert enough to say what is better: a double length "small" diameter header or a "single length" followed by a collector and then by a large diameter pipe, but would tend to think that the second system is better as the speed (and temperature) of the gases will be reduced in a larger pipe, hence causing less friction. I cannot however give you the details of the secondary pipe, as Joel nicely did for me, but only the "double length" pipe with same diameter all along.

So: one can have a header pipe made following the dimensions given by the calculation, and could also have a free flow muffler custom made: this is not much more than a canister inside which is a perforated pipe (whose diameter is given by the calculation too) surrounded by steel mesh and then rock-wool. The bigger the canister= more sound absorbing material= better sound (less noisy). The very end of that muffler would have the pipe diameter reduced by no more than 8%. No high science there!

But don't expect the best doing this way! Should be cheap but few experiments, trials and errors, can become rapidly very costly!!! Effectively, there are some more little secrets and refining that such a simple program will not tell you. The main aftermarket muffler makers (Akrapovic, Yoshimura, Arrow, etc...) have spent a lot in research and development and also has Joel Joseph, together with many other small tuners that prepare race bikes: none will tell you their little secrets! Goes even further with studying a db-killer: nearly dark art there!

So: in all cases, better have a full system, like JJ or Yoshi than a custom made header pipe and just a slip-on muffler.

Would you, however, want to have a custom header pipe made for your otherwise stock bike, the programs results would be for 6,500 rpm maximal efficiency: length of header primary pipe= 25", inside diameter = 1", secondary pipe (= the extra pipe after the primary)= 25", which means a total of 50 inches of 1" pipe, and then the muffler. If you want to have maximal efficiency at higher revs (7,000rpm), the results will be a total of 46 inches of 1.1" inside diameter pipe.
After that, fit the aftermarket slip-on muffler you like: at least, it will sound great if it does not improve the performance as much as you could have with a complete system!

Hope he get the map ryt and we get to look at the ultimate FZ beast can do

LUKE!!!!!!!!!!!Great piece of info brother......really appreciate your knowledge of FFE Learning lot from you and MIK

Forgive guys.... may be a noob question
But can't we just put the rear wheel with disk brake set-up of the R15 rather than doing so much hard machining & all that?

I haven't looked or even touched a R15 (v1 or v2) so I cannot comment if it is possible or not, However it is not just a matter of swapping the rear rim. The caliper mounting bracket will need to be fitted (to the swingarm) and adjusted to meet the disc, The brake lever modified for actuating the master cyl etc.

It may be easier swapping rear swingarms however there is another problem with different geometry of rear suspension, chainlength, swingarm lengths etc.

These modifications are not as simple as unbolt and bolt together.
My rear disc brake kit I got using the cast bracket needed the holed drilled, some tapped etc, lug welded to the swingarm to keep the bracket aligned when adjusting chain tension etc.

Some Pics to enjoy.

I've got the side engine panel finally painted along with the underbelly painted and fitted.

The previous carb (actually 3 carbs ago.) This was the carb used for running in. It would get condensation on the body of the carb, very cold. Circle slide.
It has now been sold back to the shop to be used on running in race engines on street ridden bikes

The 2nd carb is a 33mm Keihin (used for race bikes) with a "slightly bigger" K&N
This was used as the 35mm Airstriker carb was too big. Even with the smallest jets it was still too rich. The needle was a little too "fat" and running too rich.
This carb has been replaced with a new 33mm and thinner needle.
The side engine cover covers the filter quite nicely.
I haven't been home to see or ride it with the latest carb on it.