700 kms & FE report, Log 28th Aug 2013

Hi All,

keeping speeds under check i have quickly covered 700 kms on the new head and high lift cam. The engine has become much smoother and thanks to the new head and cam, all irritations are gone now:

* No Engine knocking even at 9,500 rpms
* The bike pulls cleanly from rpms as low as 2,000
* No Cam noise or unwanted vibrations even at higher rpms unlike it was the case with "Tailor Saab"

After 3rd fill up, the FE is now hovering around 39 - 40 kmpl @ speeds of 70 - 90 kmph which translates to 5000 - 6000 rpm, half the rpm i would normally stay in on open, traffic and pedestrian free roads. The amount of rpms required have gone down to achieve the same speed because of the 15T - 40T sprocket set up which makes the overall riding very relaxed and ample amount of power left to overtake.

Thanks to the new highlift cam, overtaking a vehicle is such an easy job. One just needs to open the throttle from 1/4th to 2/4ths and thats it!! The bike would quickly accelerate and before you know it, you have already crossed the vehicle ahead of you. I guess on highway runs, this will give me an edge over stock FZs and Fazers which struggle post 85kmph to overtake and maintain speeds.

If the bore was in good health, with the current set up, i can easily keep my FZ - X at 100 kmph all day long @7000 rpm, translating to a very capable tourer when compared to stock Yamaha FZ/Fazer. For a 2 valve, 182cc air cooled engine, it is quite an achievement.

I will take my bike through a proper inspection by Motozone and if i get a go ahead then will opt for a long distance run, keeping a spare bottle of engine oil handy for top ups, hopefully by the end of September. Its been a while since, i have taken care of my cravings for long distance runs...


Let's see.


Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Shiv18...another concise,to the point and crystal clear post...you amaze me with the depth of your understanding of Hot rodding and the effects,which you have learned in Such a short time....
This Thread is in SAFE HANDS...
Good Luck...

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18


a) Hot roding is not for people who want to spend just 20k extra and then want an SBK performance and stock reliability. Same has been mentioned on the 1st page of this thread.

b) Hot roding is a process of trial and error to see what is the maximum potential a stock engine can be pushed to to get the performance without blowing up the engine. Unlike claims made by the "Tooner". Luckily in my case i have done all the possible experiments within my limits and shared the same for the benefit of the community.

c) Hot roding will not result in making an engine "bullet proof as stock" but with better understanding, usage of quality parts and proper steps to get the fuelling right, build, correct torques and build mock ups... one can make a bike close to stock reliability based on the level of build one takes it to. If one goes for an extreme build then the life of the engine will also reduce drastically.

d) Your perception about getting best of everything just by retuning ECU is not right. To gain something you will have to lose something. To get more performance out of stock bike with richer fuelling you will lose on FE and more carbon deposition in the engine. Please understand one thing which i feel every Noob should keep it as a base when it comes to any engine: It is nothing but a glorified pump!! the moment one changes a parameter be it volume in CCs, pistons, head porting, FFE or anything one will also have to alter the parameters of the rest of the components to make it work effectively.

A stock bike has been tested to the core by a manufacturer they know what works best in that set up. What a hot roder is trying to do is play around with that set up to gain something more out of it but at the same time keeping it within the safe limits of the engine's tolerance. The challenge is how to keep things ticking in precision even when one has altered stuff in the engine for the pursuit of a specific outcome. In my case a bit more power with slight balance in FE.

The new chapter in my case, the intro looks good thanks to Motozone. But the rest of the story still remains to be told as i continue diving deeper into the build and clock up more miles.

Just my two cents...


Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Ya!! You got my mind. This is what I advice to my friends who say I wanna mod. Its passion for some people like [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION]. Am not into that and I really appreciate his effort. But for others who have no idea on modding and think they can beat a ninja by modding R15 for some 20k,its absolutely wrong. May be you can beat.. But you cant even come closer to the reliability or peace of mind that stock R15 or ninja can provide. So if you want more power,sell and get the bike that you wanna beat

Coming to FI. Ya I agree its difficult to find a map suitable for the mod. But not as difficult as carb,since we get all the info from the sensors present unlike carb where we have to ride or open the engine to find out what we have done. Once we get the map, its all good to go

PS: I learnt a whole lot from this thread. Thanks [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION] and others for sharing what you know

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Woo thanks!!! So the shape matters right?? Shape of bend pipe and everything. And yea I have seen many local guys plonking in empty pipe made by rolling a sheet of metal( made locally). It sounds and looks ugly. That made me ask that. I thought a gud craftsman can make a FFE How stupid I am

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Tampering with Modern Fi systems with many sensors and different operating parameters is very difficult, time consuming, and mostly will lead to early demise of the engine...
Only the designer of the engine knows all of the operating parameters, and do what is best for the engine's life...So in my reserved opinion, if you want more power than the engine you have, sell it and buy a more potent one....
This way you can be sure of refinement, and reliability...
Just my thought.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Agreed, Fi has improved a lot however, in this case with this particular bike i have to make do with what i have :P. Next purchase if an when i am bored with this bike will be an FI and mostly will be left out as stock till the hot roding urges start taking over..

A good branded FFE costs a lot more because:

* Quality of Materials used compared to stock
* Workmanship costs and a company charging a premium on the brand name same way like an Armani T - Shirt will cost you 50k + whereas a non branded one with the same quality from the street can be fetched for Rs. 50/-
* Stupid import and customs duty which results in making a good 6 lakhs SBK turn to 16 lakhs.. if you know what i am saying!!

It is not just a empty hollow tube with some glasswool my friend. there is a lot of science behind the design, bend pipe, exhaust port, flow of gases, backpressure to make it work as good as it can be...

If it was so easy all of us would then make an empty pipe and plonk it onto our bikes for more performance right??


Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Yup!! Will read and yea agree carb can generate more power than FI. Both has its advantage and disadvantages. But FI has improved a lot reducing its disadvantages. If you are only for drag, carb is better (But with precise timing and better throttle response, I guess FI can perform better) Else I choose FI over carb

EDIT: I got a small doubt. Why those FFE exhausts costs a bomb when they have nothing inside them??? Saw pics, it was just hollow tube with some glass wool stuffed to absorb sound. Is the cost for shape?? Or they just cheat people??

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

The problem is not with the bike or the process of hot roding but the shoddy quality of kits, customers taken for a ride and a series of mis-information being shared by the "Tooner". To keep my thirst for hot roding satiated, i have gone ahead with taking my FZ -X further in a new way and from a tuning house, Motozone which seems to have better know how and a very methodical approach towards a build. I can immediately see the results on my bike. I am yet to finish my tests but the way the turnaround has happened with the transformation of my bike minus all the headaches is commendable and the same has been shared on this thread for all you gentlemen.

If the process is followed correctly and the right parts are used a hot roded bike can be reliable and i still stand by statement. You need the read the rest of the pages and then should have a concluding statement i feel.

Just one correction mate: a carburetted bike/car can generate way more power than an FI bike/car and can be tuned to any extent. The same stands true with all the drag motors built in the States and all across the world.


Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

From what I have read in first 38 pages( yet to read the rest ) its best to mod only fuel injected bike than carb ones. An after market ecu with custom map for bigger bore will do the job
And I guess you guys have understood how much time a manufacturer spends just to make fuelling perfect.. Several trial runs until they get it perfect out of that awsm piece of engineering called the carburetor. Carbs are not PLUG AND PLAY things.

Also the success rate of these kits are around 25% . And the quality of these kits from JOEL is decreasing day by day. My friends R15 kit had a microscopic crack in the bore which lead to coolant mixing with oil as the crack expands when engine gets hot. And every time he got a replacement, the bores were of different size. So think how much care he takes while machining these parts.

Conclusion: Go for these kits only when you have another bike to tour( you can't enjoy the tour having the fear of breakdown in your mind) or as a spare and also if you have a load of money in your bank account to shed just to make the so called PLUG AND PLAY KIT to work properly and also for reverting it to stock later on

NOTE: On offence. Just told my opinion. I know many here have the kits working for 15k+ km. But you are the few lucky ones who got it perfect and mostly its on FI bike. I heard more failures than success.

Also I just have 1% of the knowledge you people have. These observations are from what I read from the 38 pages and from what I heard. So if an wrong anywhere you have every right to correct me

Re: Amateur speed run with Leo Vince DB insert,Test Report, 22th Aug, 2013

Good to see that there are no biased opinion,or hatred spread or flaming taking place here...Shiv18 your posts are an eye opener and are well balanced....Keep it up, you are doing a great service to the un initiated, with bare facts...
Good Luck..

Re: Amateur speed run with Leo Vince DB insert,Test Report, 22th Aug, 2013

Until i am satisfied with the build i will not recommend any of the kits from Motozone just yet. Proper tests and ownership experience with data will give the prospective hot roders facts and figures to substantiate the claims made. I want to ensure that the same mistakes are not being made here where initially there is a lot of buzz from the hot rodded bike owners and then suddenly they all disappear from xbhp without providing any updates...

Hopefully that will not happen in this case..


Cheers,

Re: Amateur speed run with Leo Vince DB insert,Test Report, 22th Aug, 2013

It has been a great learning experience to read the information on this thread.
Thank you [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION] for elaborating each and every detail with a non biased view towards the seller.

Makes me want to get these upgrades from Motozone myself :P

Would love to see the work done on your bike someday.

Cheers,
Ride Safe.

Re: Amateur speed run with Leo Vince DB insert,Test Report, 22th Aug, 2013

This is why you want to crank the engine over for around 5-7 seconds (with WOT), Your engine is heavy, so it takes time (rotations) for the starter motor to build up the minimum RPM's required for a comp test. Also your battery needs to be fully charged so you can get the minimum rpm (250rpm IIRC, Its been a while) Many factors need to be taken into account when doing a Comp Test, Not just plug in the gauge and spin the engine.

The oil will be splashing onto the bore as the crank counterweights rotate through the oil in the sump, But this is a very small amount, The oil scraper rings will be scraping the majority back down the bore and the compression rings will not have enough to create an adequate seal should they not be sealing.

One tip when starting a brand new engine, Squirt a couple pumps of the engine oil from a oil can into the cylinder via the sparkplug hole, Then let the engine crank over minus the sparkplug so the oil coats the cyl walls and piston. Just place a rag over the plug hole incase oil gets pumped out.
This will ensure that when you start the engine there is sufficient oil on the bores, Yes it will burn and smoke for 3-5 seconds at startup but then again you don't get the dry metal on metal hard starts.

Gtech RR Pro Fanatic Precision Series & Head and high lift cam report, 25th Aug, 2013

Hi All,

I am happy to announce that riding my FZ - X now has become even better. I am loving the fact that at 1/4th or 2/4th throttle i can easily cruise at 70 - 80 kmph all day long if i want thanks to the new ported head and ever so silent cam making the over all rideability factor go up ten folds. Just that the bore leakage headache is keeping me from going for long distance runs.

Regardless, FE has been consistently hovering around 35 - 38 kmpl which is a good sign.

Thanks to abhimanyu31, i now also have access to Gtech RR Pro Fanatic Precision Series GPS data logger. So do expect speed runs taking place with proper GPS data the next time i upgrade to the NiKaSil kit. Waiting for Motozone ​ to finish their prototype asap.






Motozone has confirmed that the stock replica free flow exhaust for FZ will also be Dyno tested and the nos. shall be shared with you all gentlemen. So unlike our Tooner there will be no "Tall Claims all over..." if you know what i am saying..

Facts, data, extensive tests and the results.. PERIOD!!

until then...


Cheers,