Re: Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

Well Sunday it is then...

Cheers,

Re: Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

I guess then we have no other option but to ride to Colaba. It is no less than a weekend ride for me, with streets comparatively empty. Love the weekend atmosphere of South Mumbai. One of the reason to come down is Bade Miyan..

Re: Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

I would have loved to..believe me, i have been aching to do one since, the last 2 months but as discussed, i am not comfortable with taking such a risk. On highways with higher speeds, the tendency of the engine consuming more oil with such a leaky bore is way higher than on streets. I really appreciate the offer but just that this constant headache and worry at the back of my mind will not allow me to enjoy my ride at all. I hope you understand my situation.

Well the credit for the term "talior saab" goes to none other than rider jonahmano.


Cheers,

Re: Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

That would really seal the deal!

and "Tailor Saab" had me in splits!
I doubt people not aware of the "promotional literature" would get it!

Re: Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

Shv, lets ride to Lonavala this weekend. I am sure your bike wont seize or blow up en route. Lonavala isnt a long ride. What say?

Re: Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

Sir safety is and always has been my first priority! I don't like street racing nor would promote it ever. AGATT (All Gears All The Time) is a must especially when attempting high speed rides. That has always been my moto. There is no point of risking the lives of others for the sake of just few seconds of fun PERIOD!! I guess the sense of curiosity with performance gains got hold of the better part of me hence the tests.

Thank you for your kind words. Yes even though the experience of hot roding has come at a great expense of being duped and faulty parts.. i must say i have learned so much from it. I must thank the Moderators for being open to hear the other side of the story and allow people to share facts and figures. I am also greatful to all the readers who have been kind, patient and have refrained from inducing flaming comments on this thread thus, retaining the integrity and keeping it productive for all. Thank you all!

I guess this may sound like a complete plug in but the fact is... Motozone have so far been very supportive and have been constantly asking me for feedback. Encouraging me to push the kits to the limits and until i am satisfied they want me to provide them feedback so that they can tweak the design better.. I call that customer service! To all the Noobs please bear in mind that the above tests showing the magical nos. are only as per speedo reading. One should also consider the speedo error of 5 - 10 %. So regardless, once, i can get rid of this leaking piece of junk and try out the new NiKaSil bores, i would conduct the Gtech RR Pro GPS Data tests to verify the actual gains achieved in comparison to stock. It will be the true test of the Motozone kits besides the other long term ownership experience. If the kits last then i guess members who are still interested in hot roding can decide what works and what doesn't.

PSR Ji as discussed the nos. look promising but i would still refrain from advocating these kits not just yet till i am fully satisfied with:

What's Hot:

* Performance Gains
* Acceleration Gains
* Low speed performance
* Top end Acceleration
* Average life of the kits, reliability and operation efficiency under high speed runs on highway
* GTech GPS Data to prove "i practice what i preach!" and have the necessary information to prove it
* Dyno runs: when they become available to provide irrefutable proof that the BHP gains at the wheel are verified by a certified Dyno techinician unlike our Tooner

What's Not:

* Losses in comparison to stock
* Undue vibrations if any
* Streetability compared to a "Tooner's special Race spec'd bike for streets" which blows up in 500 kms!!
* Loss in FE, Range for the pursuit of power and performance
* Any other parameters.

I think this much data and facts should clear my stance about how to do hot roding the correct way!!

I guess the term "Tooner" is catching up really fast!!


Cheers,

Re: Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

Feels great reading about the transformation of your ride.. almost like a Phoenix rising from the ashes.

It's also great to see people being so mature and accepting criticism for RC where deserved, a far cry from the days when mobs of Fan-boys were always on call to defend the honour of the "Tooner" lest anyone dare question his black magic like abilities. Guess they were all in the honeymoon phase with their souped -up rides and are now waking up to reality.
I too have learnt the hard way that Fast and Cheap is not Reliable!
I guess that's what our mistakes cant take away from us - the lesson!

Wish you all the best in your trials!

Re: Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

Shv18 .....Good going, like you said street racing is a definite no no.....try speed test on the highway, with none to get in the way, and be extra careful...since a bore seizure will lead to rear wheel lock and skid....If you ask me, it is simply not worth taking the risk.....Personal safety is of utmost importance...
Good Luck

Motozone Headwork & Cam: Aborted Speed run 20th Aug, 2013

Hi All,

I started the speed run today but like an idiot i forgot to put the GoPro camera on Video mode, and instead the cam was shooting pics on burst mode. Luckily I saw the police Nakabandi/check post ahead way in advance so aborted the run before i get into trouble with the law. It seems thanks to a few morons (read macchar bikes from Mohammad Ali Road..Arrrgh!!) , the police are taking severe action against any riders found doing illegal racing or riding their respective motorcycles at crazy high speeds. So i guess the speed run video will have to wait for a bit till the things cool off a bit.

Please note:

* i was fully geared up when the speed run was attempted and ensured that there was no heavy traffic or pedestrian movement in the test location. I am strictly against street racing and would request all the riders not to try this on streets. be a responsible rider.
* the speed run was done just to test the gains observed with the Motozone ported head and the highlift camshaft prototype.
* I am no drag specialist but just an average rider and "feather weight" if you know what i am saying eh?
* Leo Vince Exhaust with the DB insert was still kept installed when the speed run was attempted. This was intentionally done to simulate city riding conditions.
* Front Sprocket 15T and Rear Sprocket 40T config has been kept while attempting the run.

Anyways i would like to share the pics of the run attempted. Please note the speeds achieved were done at 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear before i aborted the run.



Pic 1: 44 kmph, 1st gear @ 9,000 rpm



Pic 2: 65 kmph, 2nd gear @ 9,000 rpm



Pic 3: 94 kmph, 3rd gear @ 9,000 rpm


As the pics suggest:

* 1st gear @ 9,000 rpms = 44 kmph
* 2nd gear @ 9,000 rpms = 65 kmph
* 3rd gear @ 9,000 rpms = 94 kmph

Need i say more?? The way my FZ - X was flying was unbelievable!! And don't forget i still had two gears left!! I reckon, if our local test rider Jr. Danny Pedrosa AKA "Joel Raju" was in my place, the speeds achieved in all 3 gears would have been far different! Its just that i was not too keen on pushing my FZ -X with a leaking kit and shifting gears @ 10,000 rpm. Forgive me for my sheer reluctance but i hope you understand.

Motozone's prototype head and cam has passed the "half-done" test in flying colours!! I am yet to attempt city and low speed tests on the same. Will provide reports as i continue testing this prototype.

Sir needless to say so far all my attempts have been to push the kits to the limit but ofcourse keeping it within the boundaries of safety of the rider and the engine as no one is funding me for my pet project. Hot roding is very addictive and somehow i find it more enticing than alcohol..

Unless i am fully satisfied with their kits, i shall not give it a full approval seal. But it is their sheer confidence and openness with how to make things work has kept my belief in their work. As of now the results like above look really promising.


Next in line, i also have to check out the annoying FE achieved and rideability tests done at rpms as low as 2,000 rpms; in order to see how much the cam can handle before the engine dies off. With RC cam anything below 3k rpm on streets was a complete nightmare!!


More reports coming soon...


Cheers,

Re: Motozone: Head & Mild Lift Camshaft Prototype, Ring Failure 17th Aug 2013 Log

I am using Shell Rimula R4 Diesel Oil in my ZMA-R...The oil became dark only after 900 Kms and at 1500 Kms still looks slightly dark....all the oils I had tried before had left the engine oil looking dark at 600~700 kms.....and the engine is smooth even now ..there is no roughness and gear changes are good...cold starts are better....many ZMA/ZMR owners have tried with good results...The Oil is Mineral and changing at !,500 to 1,700 Kms depending on oil condition is recommended....the oil feels more like FS ( not exact)...
I had gone for the Rimula R4 because it contains high amount of ZDDP which had been either lowered very much or removed from Petrol engine oils.This compound is essential for reducing wear and protection of moving parts...
The Rimula R3x is equally good at 250/- per liter and R4 is 300/- per liter ..R4 contains Calcium also to help reduce wear....

Re: Motozone: Head & Mild Lift Camshaft Prototype, Ring Failure 17th Aug 2013 Log

Have already tried it & itt does improve top end. I have posted the details here (http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...tml#post980908)

I realized the reliability is compromised by a good extent when using this, so stock carb and filter it is from now on. Good to see FE figures close to 40kmpl after a long time

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Thanks again psr ji for the detailed info. Let me see how the 300V changes colour with time. If piston rings are really the culprit, then what optins does one have? Replace with new rings?

Re: Motozone: Head & Mild Lift Camshaft Prototype, Ring Failure 17th Aug 2013 Log

The engine oil becomes Dark, only if combustion gas leaks through the Piston rings and mixes with the oil.....In Petrol engine cars even at 5 K kms the oil will not get as dark as in Bikes..esp., the Air Cooled ones....reason is because of the higher expansion of the bore and Piston which leads to gap over a period of time...A young engine and an Old engine both will make the oil Dark soon...the young one because it is not set and the old one because it is worn....
The engine oil is not only a Lube for the engine, it is also there to seal the ring to bore gaps...so technically an oil with larger particles as in Mineral oil with good lube property, and friction reducing agent like ZDDP will have better stability and ring seal....
A mineral oil changed every 1,500 kms will keep the engine in better condition than a FS changed at 5 K Kms, due to the fact that there is New oil every 1.5 K kms..

Adarsh.. I had not helped any more than how you helped yourself....you were seeking knowledge and keen to learn, so you got the info that you wanted, and YOU did a DIY and succeed in your efforts....
Good Luck..

Shv 18...from your account of what Motozone is sharing with you it seems they are on the right track...they are coming forward to discuss openly on various aspects of tuning and upgrading which shows their confidence in their work, plus the fact that they are there to answer your questions is a very big boon...having a tuner close at hand to get help with the kit and the queries ,is essential for your peace of mind...Still only an experience over a period of time will prove the facts.....Sorry if i sound Pessimistic, since I have seen too many tall claims, Self proclamation , and total failures among the threads ...

Re: Motozone: Head & Mild Lift Camshaft Prototype, Ring Failure 17th Aug 2013 Log

You can increase the top end on the same stock CV carburettor as well by fitting the 50mm conical Simota filter and upjetting the carb. But then you are exposing the engine to more dust and grime which will significantly reduce the life of the engine. It may good for a racer on a race track with a lot of money to spend on but for street usage especially in a dusty environment of india: NOT RECOMMENDED!!

Cheers,

Re: Motozone: Head & Mild Lift Camshaft Prototype, Ring Failure 17th Aug 2013 Log


Will be waiting for the video! Make sure turbo sound is captured well when you whack the throttle


Good to know. I have shifted to 300V two days back. Clocked 300+kms and the colour was fine, let me see how long the colour stays green.When I used to change Shell oil post 4k kms, the bike was still smooth, but I was changing it for my satisfaction and didnt want to push the oil to its limits. So hopefully I dont have to worry about the scary issue of piston rings going bust!


It is still going on . I am definitely happy with the low end performance, but it lacks the top end which was provided by Simota filter(but at the cost of engine reliability of course). I will post the details soon.And yes, @psr sir has helped me a lot regarding this.

Most probably my hotrodding days are over. The current setup I have is the most reliable one and no more experiments on this.

Re: Motozone: Head & Mild Lift Camshaft Prototype, Ring Failure 17th Aug 2013 Log

Thank you sir,

As discussed over telecon might i be honest, Motozone exactly told me the same thing what you have mentioned about stock cam Vs high lift cam even before we were planning to get their kits installed. A manufacturer has spent millions of Rs. to get a stock bike match with a proper cam to handle the daily needs of a normal rider. What we are attempting or rather looking at is to play with the settings within the safe limit of an engine and one will have to sacrifice one thing or the other. In my case as of now the idling rpm has to kept in check in order to enjoy the new found performance gain but to me that is not a loss. Atleast i don't have to live with an irritating stitching noise from "Tailor Saab" for the rest of my life!! The RC cam is purely a wild cam and the lobes have not been designed or casted properly to be gentle with the valve train system and at the same time offer performance and power.

As i have mentioned before, i really do appreciate the honesty from Motozone's end in every aspect. This is one of the first tuning house's in India where they have delivered exactly what was promised to me. But till further tests are completed i shall refrain from giving full marks not just yet.

Regarding, the possible valve float condition at higher rpms, i had already checked with them and Mr. Vikram has mentioned that there is no valve float with the current cam. The whirring noise is because of a combination of air flow, cam design and the way the valves open and close now. And to be honest, the whirring noise/the turbo spooling sound really adds a character to my FZ -X now. I really like it !!

If the NiKaSil bores take some more time to arrive, i shall change the engine oil to Shell Rimula R4 15W 40 mineral oil like we have discussed on phone. I hope a thicker grade and viscosity oil will hopefully reduce the oil consumption and protect my engine internals from getting damaged. Thanks to this stupid leaking bore i now cannot engage in my long distance ride activities over the weekend anymore. But nonetheless lesson learnt!


For Motul 300V NO! on my stock Yamaha FZ, the engine oil lost its colour only after crossing 4700 kms without losing the lubrication properties. The engine still felt smooth. It just that i chickened out and drained the FS oil just to keep things within a self made safety limit. With the current set up,the engine was also feeling a bit rough till we drained the oil and saw the condition. It was not just black but slightly gooey as well indicating ring failure/leakage. Quality control according to my understanding has been clearly ignored before shipping it off to the user. As mentioned earlier the low oil level adds more woes and also drops quickly if i keep the engine at higher revs on highway rides.

How did your experiment with the 29mm CV carb go?? i am sure you are more happy with the overall low, mid and top end now??? Please do share your experience on your thread and be in touch with PSR Ji, his guidance really helped me to conduct all my jetting experiments without blowing off the engine!! :P

Royal enfield Bullet?? LOL!! A GoPro speed run should put things to rest i suppose. Today the weather looks good so shall attempt a speed run may be later at night??

Yes the throttle jamming issue was recently discovered. I completely forgot to mention it in the post above. Thanks for bringing it up mate. The reason behind this minute issue being the 29mm CV carburettor is slightly bigger then the stock 26mm CV carb. So the positioning of the throttle cable is at a certain angle and with the BS modified 26 lever being slightly longer than stock, it gets stuck if one attempts WOT and fully locks the throttle beyond WOT until one pushes the throttle back manually, then the cable will release from WOT to its resting position. I will get that fixed soon.

But with the new high lift cam, on an open road, i really don't have to wring the throttle anywhere to the maximum position to get the performance. The nos. on the speedo climb so fast that you are more busy looking at the road ahead for obstacles rather than looking at the speedometer. I believe i unintentionally pissed of quite a lot of riders/posers yesterday on my way back.. but in all forms i am completely against street racing and lane cutting in traffic.

I am sure the exhaust mod will add some more ponies, sound and character to your beloved KTM Duke 200 mate. Local aftersales & service will be a bonus.

I am impatiently looking forward to the NiKaSil BB kit as the current leaking bore is adding more headache then the pleasure i was hoping for. Constantly monitoring the engine oil level before every ride at intervals of 300 - 500 kms is really irritating.

Anyways, shall post some more findings after the GoPro speed run is completed.


Cheers,