Re: Leo Vince test runs, performance drop observed, 12th Aug, 2013

Hey Shiv!! Sorry to hear you had to go through all this. Well reading your story, it is very easy to blame Joel, because that gives a completely different perspective. Well, I too have walked down the path before with my P220, and I am more than happy to give more business to Joel.

The difference is in the approach. I know I am a noob in this field, and know zilch. Never overestimated my capabilities. I am a 9-6 kind of guy. Work from 9-6 (not exactly, shifts change), and what ever time remains after that, I have to devote my time to my family, have to study to keep myself updated and ahead in my field of work and what ever little time remains I have to socialize with friends.

Hence, that leaves very little time for me to read about technical aspects of bikes or delve deeper. But one thing I understand, internet is double edged sword. It may send you on a wrong path, and before you know you start feeling like an expert. Now, I have refrained from that.

When I decided to hot rod, it was clear in my mind that I would let the expert (Joel) do the work, and I shall not interfere or try to carry on my mods from outside with whatever little information I have. I strongly believe in "half knowledge is dangerous".

Before hot rodding, I tried to read materials on the net, tried to google about Joel, but, fortunately there were no negative reviews at that time. Had I come across this review of yours then, I too would have moved dropped my plans of going to Joel.

Also, when I decided to hot-rod, I was in Bangalore then. I called him up, visited his workshop in Kormangala, and started off with the very basic, porting of head and FFE. Joel insisted that I go in stages, and realise the effects of each stage on my bike. Yes, I did that. Bike ran fine, with improved performance, cold start issue solved, and I was happy. After a year Joel was ready with the Big Bore. My friend Ashish, (sorry bro to drag you into this) was the first to try the Big Bore on his 220 FI. Happy with his results, I too went for the same along with Simota Filter, stiffer springs, bigger carb.

All the mods were done at Joels workshop, and I was clear to let him do the job. I never had anyone tinkering around the setup.

I guess you must have heard of Venkat Sir (not the one from Automotive), he was the guy who built a Fiero 200 cc with a turbo. Also, you must have heard of Nisar from NMW. Now, these guys are the one of the best in their fields.

After the Big Bore and other mods, I took the bike to them. They said "it is the best thing to happen to a P220". The throttle response, the acceleration, everything had improved a lot. Engine never knocked or gave unusual sounds. Never felt over heating or loss of power.

After the big bore, I did Bangalore - Mumbai trip in 14 hours flat, maintaining 120-130 constantly. No issues. Even after riding hard entire journey, never felt loss of power after I reached home and took my bike out after an hour for a spin around the town.

Bottomline is I understand I am a noob, I realise my limitation, hence I always let the experts do their job. All I can do best is ride the hell out of my machines. I love to have a blast on my machines. I know how to extract maximum fun while riding. And I have never been let down on that front.

I know people will say, bring on the dyno results, do this, do that....What the heck I don't care, I know how to enjoy my rides, I know what to expect from them when they go under the knife. And I am glad they have lived upto my expectations. They have never let me down, whether in the city or on open highways during long tours. I would go to the extent of getting my D200 and my CIty moded from him. I have witnessed his work very close, and I have faith in his work.

To keep it simple I do my job, and I let them do their job.....Yes, and now please bring on the brickbats....as expected.

Re: Leo Vince test runs, performance drop observed, 12th Aug, 2013

To all enthusiasts, please don't feed for someones money hungry. Think before you take plunge whether the stock bigger CC bikes are reliable or modified smaller CC bikes are reliable. Probably the former will cost less also.

Leo Vince test runs, performance drop observed, 12th Aug, 2013

Hi all,

finally after a break of a few days i had a go on my FZ - X. Unsure of the crazy weather i had no choice but to abandon my GoPro speed run plans with the current set up. One thing which stands out when compared to my stint with Yoshimura Full Exhaust system even with the custom DB killer; the clear indications of drop in performance. I mean the bike feels like its struggling against a lot of back pressure. If readers may recollect, just on experimentation basis i had installed the adjustable needle from the Apache RTR series damaged BS 29 carburettor which was sent to me by the "Race Tooner" (the carb is now used as a paper weight. That's 3.5k of charity donated to the self acclaimed Race engineer i suppose!! ).

I will revert to the stock non-adjustable needle that came along with the BS 29 carburettor just to see what spark plug readings we get at WOT and whether there is any change in performance. If we do get a slightly leaner reading on the spark plug, then i will go full rich AFR by using a 125 main jet and see how much performance increase/drop happens with my ride. As of now the FE is hovering around 33-36 kmpl.. so the nos. are pretty low when compared to the earlier tests... I think i would have lost the count by now, on many variations i have tried on the 29mm CV carb so far if not for habitual documentation (read blabbering!!) here on this thread!!

I will try and request Motozone guys if they can build a custom DB killer for LV exhaust with a larger dia exhaust port in order to see if the performance reaches at par with the Yoshi. Somehow purely on performance basis, i am missing Yoshi quite a lot now... the bike had a different character with that exhaust. No wonder why Japs are so superior in everything...

Hopefully by this weekend Motozone will have a finished prototype of their street cam and the ported head ready for me to get my hands on. As of now based on an open platform relationship, the data they have shared looks very promising. But as all of you might have come to know me by now.. without testing it thoroughly and a proper GoPro speed run, i will not give a green card to their kit just yet. I do have immense respect for Mr. Vikram for being so open and honest with me and i don't care if some of the readers might consider this statement as a plugin.

After my stint with "Race Tooner", this is the first time i have seen a passionate and enthusiastic tuning house, willing to share knowledge and also give you tangible answers so that one learns more and also understands how to troubleshoot a problem better. I feel getting 'one on one' advice from senior riders and these guys, i have learnt quite a lot about hot roding especially on my FZ - X, much more than what it was a year back.


Still to come... a small teaser...




Pic 1: Cam data Stock VS RC "Tailor Saab" cam.


P.S.: Even though by now we all know the cam is not manufactured by the "Race Tooner", just for reference purpose we will continue naming it RC cam shall we?? . I am waiting for the RC cam profile and data will share once i have a compilation of everything....


Thank you for your kind words mate but i am not even close to the understanding of a motorcycle engine like the senior riders: PSR Ji, abhimanyu31 and many others on this forum. For Noobs, i would recommend to give a thorough read through the Fiero link i had shared earlier. It is full of information giving one a proper idea regarding how to approach a problem and what is the best way to detect and rectify an issue.. i have being browsing through that thread since the last 3 days and have learnt so much from it.. Thumbs up from my end, a must read for all of you gentlemen!!

@Vizack: You will end up losing all the hair on your head by the time you figure out how to tune that D slide type carburettor. As rider Adarsh_Bk has already mentioned, for street use, especially at stop and go traffic this carburettor would be a nightmare to deal with. But then again it purely depends on what is your requirement. I would still recommend that you procure a BS 29 CV carburettor and get the proper jetting done. You will get a good balance of performance and FE. Rest is for you to decide. CVs are very forgiving in nature.. i doubt the D slide carb would show you the same leniency.

Secondly, have you ever thought about the servicability of that carb?? 29mm CV (Either RTR or bajaj UCAL make carb)will allow you to procure parts locally should the carb slide or the diaphragm goes bust. How will you source out parts for the 32/33mm carb?? What would be the cost?? Do think about ownership costs before you take a plunge spending a fortune on it. Just my two cents..


OPENING OLD CAN OF WORMS.. R15 saga!!

Now please don't run after me with pitchforks!!..

Forgive me rider abhijeet080808 for posting this. I don't want to open old wounds.. But in my continuous effort to educate riders on this thread, please consider this only for the purpose of knowledge sharing. I am posting the image of the R15 BB kit claimed to be built and designed from ground up by our famous "Race Tooner" which was installed on abhijeet's R15 and had a premature seizure.



Pic 2: Yamaha LC 135 cylinder bored to 165cc cylinder and sold to riders opting for hot roding R15 courtesy "Race Tooner".

After abhijit080808's unfortunate experience and sharing of this particular pic of the BB cylinder: it got me thinking and i finally started questioning the authenticity of origin of such parts as compared to the "indigenously designed" and other claims made by our snakeoil salesman. During the run - in period with the "imported" RC kits for my FZ, i had received dozens of distress PMs from riders who shared with me their unhappy endings with catastrophic engine seizures while getting their R15 hotroded from the "Race Tooner's" workshop directly... Thus, at a much later point i realised that the real truth behind the claims of "bulletproof reliability" over stock were just a mere claims and nothing else... and the same has been shared with you all in this thread ever since.

I would also like to encourage the readers to go through some of my earlier comments on this thread: http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...-tuned-21.html One will notice in my earlier comments, i too had been bitten by the "success stories" bug, in and around me in Mumbai without actually snooping deeper into any issues the riders with such rides might had faced and chose not to tell. So personally i have no qualms in admitting that i was naive at that point of time and ever since, have been trying really hard to correct the mistakes of my past.. hopefully this thread is serving the purpose.

I hope it is not too late; but I would personally like to thank senior rider Aargee for opening my eyes now.. All this time you were trying to save all of us enthusiasts from an "imposter" but i guess we all were too blind to understand your intent.

For Noobs who have no idea regarding Yamaha 135 LC, please visit this link: Yamaha Y135LC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . The engine of this particular vehicle is the base for the OEM Yamaha R15 engine manufactured and sold in India by Yamaha. More or less the cylinder shown in the pic above is nothing but a factory rejected piece of the Yamaha LC 135 due to imperfections/not matching the QC standards of the Yamaha factory abroad. Now here comes the real story...

Such factory rejected bores are bought in bulk, rebored to 165cc, 172cc etc. and matched with a "Semi forged/forged" piston in Asian countries - then bought by our "Race Tooner" from a distributor or seller for such kits in India - then sold to unsuspecting buyers for a huge amount.

Now for Noobs who are interested, i can take an open bet that if one roams around the local performance parts shops in Blore, Chennai, Kerala, Delhi, Hyderabad and in some parts of Kolkata, they may find a similar kit being sold for a much lesser cost for all the bikes, which apparently is claimed to be 1st copies of the genuine "Race Tooner's" indigenously manufactured products from his start up venture. As an exercise if possible, i would encourage readers who are based in these cities, to try their luck in the local mechanic's/local performance parts shops and should they find such kits, click pics of same and share it on this thread to verify claims from my end.

Anyways, at a later stage after extensive tests with the RD Powertronic ECU and the maps shared with us by the "Race Tooner" for the R170 while i was out of station for a project, it became pretty clear that the major amount of "starter clutch & starter motor busting" phenomenon was because of the wrong map with wrong values set in it and also the whole thing gets accentuated by the wrongly designed high lift camshaft. How am i making such a huge claim against our reputed "Race Tooner" with so much racing background??? The same reverse cranking and thud sound vanished completely when the user tried riding the bike on stock R15 ECU. Now unless i have understood it wrong, the same issues witnessed with the RD ECU tuned by "Jewel" like reverse cranking, engine making large thud noises, piston slap and engine shutting down oddly etc. should also appear when one plugs in the stock ECU correct?? But it was not the case.

This map is so sensitive to air temperature and barometric pressure that a slight dip or increase in temperature or change in altitude will drastically reduce the FE and performance of the bike. My friend had apparently gone through 3 starter clutch plates and 2 starter motors in that period of my absence. Unfortunately by the time i was back, he had already left for abroad and i couldn't take a detail account of the aftermath with his bike nor with his kits. Last time i had spoken to him, he had an issue with the seizure of the kit on his R170 and was asking for help on the same from "Jewel". However, that being said, his ride was indeed in pathetic shape and state of his bike might have accelerated the wearing out process faster than other hot roders using the same kit. More shall be revealed at a later end...

So i hope i am able to add some more pointers on the same in order to ensure than none of the unsuspecting noobs or hot roding enthusiasts are taken for a ride by this "self-glorifying salesman".

If i am correct, the salesman above charges some 50-60k for stage II/ Stage III build on R15.. So riders and hot roding enthusiasts, please spare yourself the misery and do some more research on who can provide you better kits and all the necessary information along with after sales service to help you have a pleasurable experience with hot roding in your respective bikes.

I am glad that so many riders are participating in this thread and making this loaded with information for Noobs as well as enthusiasts to take a cue from. Let's try and learn from my mistakes and many other riders, look at hot roding from a fresh perspective shall we??

Thanks again guys for your active participation..


Cheers,

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

I guess you mean pilot jet? Then it is size 25, which came with the carb. I tried adjusting fuel screw and it is better than before but still some more precise adjustment to be done.

I hope you got the info related to the carb that you were looking for

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Can you tell me the exact Jet size you currenlty have
The points narrows down to wrong fueling I suppose (Cold sstart & irregular idiling )