2009 Speculation thread: What bikes could be launched?

[insanebiker]

and what bout people who are already riding the Zma for 5 years and wanna upgrade.. should the litre class be the only option??

Why not an R15/P220?

[Satellite.kid]

I cannot see why both cannot be achieved.

Actually, Yamaha is achieving both in the form of R15! THink about it...! R15 is a product launched very strategically by Yamaha. This bike created a new segment for itself in an existing segment!!! This is a perfect example for Indian companies to follow and this is the route that is required to be taken by Indian companies like Bajaj/TVS before they think of making their own 400/600cc motorcycle or before we demand one from them. R15 is a 150cc sportbike given to the masses! Does it hit the bulls eye, yes! And whether it should have more power or not is a different discussion all together, but what it has done is made common people aware of components related to sportbikes like deltabox frame, link type mono suspension to name a few! Something which Fireblade or Hayabusa didn't achieved even when being so popular because of a simple reason that these are out of reach for most people in India and hence, they don't pay attention to details involved in them! But R15 being available to the masses, has made much wider range of people aware of what a sportbike is like and what is different in them from regular bikes.

Hence, we need products similar to R15 before our Indian companies take a plunge into a higher segment! These guys have lot to learn from what has gone into the development of R15. On the other hand, ZMA and P220 are doing their job quite well!

[pads]

For them, I think its like diving into a pool whose depth you're not sure of. You might just hit your head hard if its shallow.

Yes, and when that dream is fulfilled, they cannot dream anymore, because of the vaaast void all the way till 10+ lacs.

But some1 have to go ahead....... Yamaha did that thing....... after the success of R15 n FZ then also no one is making any move.........

true man....... this dream is too big for a middle or upper middle class person.........

Atleast, we both agree on one thing. There should be changes in laws to bring in mid segment bikes!

@pads: Let us pray that the Govt.laws change&soon we start seeing CKDs of atleast mid segment bikes for around 5-6 lakhs. That will surely cheer up many of us here!

n there should be change in law........ that every1 agrees.........

[BANDHAV]

That is what I wanted to address in my last edited post. I believe the market is there. If Honda and Yamaha can sell SBKs at 10+ lacs and sell 100-125ccs at the same time, I cannot see why a Ninja 250s/CBF250s/Twisters cannot enter the market at 2.5L to 3L from a manufacturers that have an even greater market share.

Nobody is saying that such market dosent exist, its there? but the question is how big this market is. Is it big enough to justify huge investment in R&D, new production/assembly line etc etc. AFAIU the answer is no. All the companies operating in the market is there to make profit. Anything which doesnt look financially vible will be outrightly ignored. This is precisely what happening. Even if a company go ahead and make something what pranay mentioned for us power starved poor (relatively) biker, then what i can easily state that company will take eternity to reach a break even point for this product. Subsequently developing an infrastructure for service and spare support can be a nightmarish experience.
As far as 10+ lakhs sbks are concerned the companies are selling these for more as a brand building exercise and at the kind of price these bikes are retailed at i am sure companies will still be making profit. And they have just not worked on the infrastructure, Rossiter's stagnant R1 is a burning example.

[MavericK46]

@Bandhav: I tried long and hard (unsuccessfully too) to find a flaw in your reasoning. Quite frankly, there is no loophole in your logic man

The role of the R1/Blade/Busa etc is just to draw the customer into the Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki showroom, allow him to drool on the litre bikes and then sway him into purchasing a 150 etc
Simple and effective strategy for the company which keeps everyone happy at a relatively small investment (homologation, mech training etc) except for the customer who ends up with an issue in his litre bike..

[Samarth 619]

@ Bandhav: It is my personal opinion, but for the mass market, anything under 400cc can be a production reality right here in India, meeting all Manufacturer requirements & be profitable too...


Guys, even If I can afford the R1, Why the hell should I DRAG a 179 kgs bike, on these Indian Streets?

Can't I have something like CBR 600, which weighs some 155 kg dry something, still performs like a Hellraiser ..!?

[pranay]

Actually, Yamaha is achieving both in the form of R15! THink about it...!

I agree. That is why I mentioned the success of Yamaha with products like R15 and the FZ in my previous post.

Nobody is saying that such market dosent exist, its there? but the question is how big this market is. Is it big enough to justify huge investment in R&D, new production/assembly line etc etc. AFAIU the answer is no. All the companies operating in the market is there to make profit. Anything which doesnt look financially vible will be outrightly ignored. This is precisely what happening. Even if a company go ahead and make something what pranay mentioned for us power starved poor (relatively) biker, then what i can easily state that company will take eternity to reach a break even point for this product. Subsequently developing an infrastructure for service and spare support can be a nightmarish experience.

How much did Yamaha invest in R&D of R15 just for India? Considering the situation they were in before that, would that have been a viable financially? Obviously they saw something others didn't see. Could anyone have justified a 150cc for 1 lac at that moment of time?

As far as 10+ lakhs sbks are concerned the companies are selling these for more as a brand building exercise and at the kind of price these bikes are retailed at i am sure companies will still be making profit. And they have just not worked on the infrastructure, Rossiter's stagnant R1 is a burning example.

Yes, that is true, but since the bikes are being sold, I think its better to work on infrastructure rather than not selling the product itself.

[sukant08]

^^^ I think at some level we indians keeps u derestimating ourselves !! Every company that has set moderate expectations on premium products have been pleasantly surprised. Each one of the Aquilas were already spoken for, before they landed. How many comets are languising in showrooms ??

Yamaha has sold more R1 than they expected !! This is a teeming billion, our nation. And for that its obvious that the apparent trend that will be most obvious will be of the econo-commuters. But there are enough hidden markets available. Last year 23000 ninja 250s were sold in US. Lets assume India will have 1000 ninjas sold every year (wich I presume is a realistic estimate. I'd think that number shud be enuff for Bajaj to invest into it. Of course the level of investment will be lower and we will have to adjust accordinly in our expectations.

Again its a viscious cycle. We say we are unhappy because there are no products, companies say they don't have products coz there is no market, there is no market because there is no awareness, there is no awareness coz there is no product !!

[MavericK46]

@Pranay: Im guessing that Yamaha didn't have to invest a considerably large sum as all they needed to take care of was the assembly process and the chassis production.
The engine is an import and surely the chassis/panels wouldn't have taken the kind of investment required to develop a product from scratch...

[sukant08]

@ Bandhav: It is my personal opinion, but for the mass market, anything under 400cc can be a production reality right here in India, meeting all Manufacturer requirements & be profitable too...


Guys, even If I can afford the R1, Why the hell should I DRAG a 210 kgs bike, on these Indian Streets?

Can't I have something like CBR 600, which weighs some 150 kg something, still performs like a Hellraiser ..!?

R1 is 210 kgs and CBR600 150 ??? Man I really love the place you get ur info from !! In that case what about driviability ?? You'll have to rev a 600 like crazy to get any sort of juice out of it. Again not something u can do in Indian conditions !!

[pads]

Again its a viscious cycle. We say we are unhappy because there are no products, companies say they don't have products coz there is no market, there is no market because there is no awareness, there is no awareness coz there is no product !!

Wow man...... your cycle is complete .......

[satyenpoojary]

Phew Bandhav did one helluva good job to bust some myths here....
Now my turn


- Vixion and T135... so much for exclusive R&D for R15 in India... pteew!
- Which Manafacturer do you see can bring you a self developed 250~600 CC bike here?
- Hero Honda.... Phew Stickers?
- TVS - The ones who race a 250CC bike which is an import?
- Bajaj - Ones who seem to have run out of ideas of development!
- Yamaha - Who has a Engine Manufactuuring foundry in India :P
- Honda - Pteew!

Royal Enfield

[sukant08]

Royal Enfield

Worth its weight in gold !!

[MavericK46]

@Satyen: You forget that RE already has a 500 here man

However, I'd rather not debate on the near-middleweight displacement of the RE single translating into performance

[sukant08]

Actually, mostly I find myself on highways. That's why I feel that highrevvers would do fine to me ...

Admittedly u r mostly on highways, and on a highway somehow a R1 will strifle you but an R6 will do fine ...... because ..... ????

@Satyen: You forget that RE already has a 500 here man

However, I'd rather not debate on the near-middleweight displacement of the RE single translating into performance

And hence Satyen gave a after RE !! With all due respect of course !!