2009 Speculation thread: What bikes could be launched?

[ken cool]

Thats what I meant by investing....... they dont want to invest right now....... they are making easy money......
Bajaj is changing the scenario(not saying I'm a Bajaj fan)....... they should learn those things......... first Pulsar then Pro-Biking Showroom......... And then Bajaj went to sleep........

You are the one who is sleeping. As I have said before why don't you and others like you wake up and upgrade? That will give reason to manufacturers to upgrade to "quality products" as you said before.

Let us pray that the Govt.laws change&soon we start seeing CKDs of atleast mid segment bikes for around 5-6 lakhs. That will surely cheer up many of us here!

Govt laws will not and should not change. Anything imported should be taxed at 100% like any other country in the world. Else your own economy will get swamped and drowned!

What is necessary is Cos should invest in bringing out products like Yamaha did for the R15. And this will gradually happen with higher capacity machines too, give it time. People are watching the market move; the success/failure of bikes like the R15 will decide the future of biking in India. Remember when BMW brought in the F650 in 94 at INR5-6L? How many people bought? Thirty odd! That showed the future of biking. And we got zilch after that. BMW shut its door permanently on India. They had every reason to. Despite having the first mover advantage, they could not create inroads. Yam got the R15, Bajaj gave us the P220. Their success/failure will decide a LOT of things.

Atleast, we both agree on one thing. There should be changes in laws to bring in mid segment bikes!

There should be relaxation only in Homologation rules for all segments. But I still firmly believe that Import duties at 100% for imported products should definitely exist.

@Bandhav: I tried long and hard (unsuccessfully too) to find a flaw in your reasoning. Quite frankly, there is no loophole in your logic man

The role of the R1/Blade/Busa etc is just to draw the customer into the Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki showroom, allow him to drool on the litre bikes and then sway him into purchasing a 150 etc
..

Don't tell me that you did not know this already.

[BANDHAV]

@ Bandhav: It is my personal opinion, but for the mass market, anything under 400cc can be a production reality right here in India, meeting all Manufacturer requirements & be profitable too...


Guys, even If I can afford the R1, Why the hell should I DRAG a 210 kgs bike, on these Indian Streets?

Can't I have something like CBR 600, which weighs some 150 kg something, still performs like a Hellraiser ..!?

I just love this guy, Man you are a real gem, while we are getting deep into serious but somehow depressing discussion, you come, crack a joke and make our day.

IHow much did Yamaha invest in R&D of R15 just for India? Considering the situation they were in before that, would that have been a viable financially? Obviously they saw something others didn't see. Could anyone have justified a 150cc for 1 lac at that moment of time? Yes, that is true, but since the bikes are being sold, I think its better to work on infrastructure rather than not selling the product itself.

Not much, you know that. And it was a desperate move on the part of Yamaha india to revive their image. And after intial euphoria the YMIL is just managing a sedate figure of 800 vehicles a month (R15).
And building an infrastructure is uncalled for until and unless i will see money.
And no manufacture consider it their social responsibility to serve the bikers of a country by building a low cost high performance bike.
I know its bitter in test but truth always is.

[Samarth 619]

@ sukant: Well, can't say. I don't like a lot of weight generally, be it riding anywhere...

I know its R1 and all but still, we all know the differences. Anyways guys, now I gotta study for my exams ...

[Satellite.kid]

I cannot see why both cannot be achieved.

I cannot see why both cannot be achieved.[/QUOTE]

Actually, Yamaha is achieving both in the form of R15! THink about it...! R15 is a product launched very strategically by Yamaha. This bike created a new segment for itself in an existing segment!!! This is a perfect example for Indian companies to follow and this is the route that is required to be taken by Indian companies like Bajaj/TVS before they think of making their own 400/600cc motorcycle or before we demand one from them. R15 is a 150cc sportbike given to the masses! Does it hit the bulls eye, yes! And whether it should have more power or not is a different discussion all together, but what it has done is made common people aware of components related to sportbikes like deltabox frame, link type mono suspension to name a few! Something which Fireblade or Hayabusa didn't achieved even when being so popular because of a simple reason that these are out of reach for most people in India and hence, they don't pay attention to details involved in them! But R15 being a 150cc has made much wider range of people aware of what a sportbike is like and how it is different from other bikes! And this is how motorcycling scene in India will change when a product reaches wider audience like R15.

Hence, we need similar products like R15 from our Indian companies first before they take a plunge in the higher segment. They have lot to learn from the development of R15 being a 150cc bike.

[sukant08]

Govt laws will not and should not change. Anything imported should be taxed at 100% like any other country in the world. Else your own economy will get swamped and drowned!

How ??? Which Indian company is producing anything remotely competing with the R1 ? There shud be an import duty for perhaps 400cc or less but not beyond that !! As it'd take Indian bike manufacturers ages to breach that.

BMW in my opinion was way ahead of its time. But things they are different now.

[ken cool]

- Vixion and T135... so much for exclusive R&D for R15 in India... pteew!

Agreed. But still they did it! Nobody else did. Not Honda. Not Suzuki.

- Which Manafacturer do you see can bring you a self developed 250~600 CC bike here?

If you ask me, Bajaj can and will do it. It won't beat the 600RR. But I think if Bajaj gets a multicylinder 400CC at 60bhp, I am pretty convinced you will buy it for 3.5L.

- Hero Honda.... Phew Stickers?

I can't help but agree on that one too.

- Bajaj - Ones who seem to have run out of ideas of development!

Probably not. No, I am NOT a Bajaj fan. I am just giving them their due credit.

- Honda - Pteew!

Again I will agree.

I just love this guy, Man you are a real gem, while we are getting deep into serious but somehow depressing discussion, you come, crack a joke and make our day.

Yes, and he even brings about a difference of 60odd kilos between your 600 and the litre class. Whereas the real difference is around 16 kilos or so.

Not much, you know that. And it was a desperate move on the part of Yamaha india to revive their image. And after intial euphoria the YMIL is just managing a sedate figure of 800 vehicles a month (R15).

True. But the initial euphoria gave them figures that they achieved in 5 months that Karizma cannot cope up with in an entire year! (Or almost)

[MavericK46]

...
Don't tell me that you did not know this already.

Ahem..
Guilty as charged Ken da
Any person who'd actually put to task a few grey cells at some point of time would come up with the explanation and hence I was convinced of this thought beforehand.
It was Bandhav who typed out the entire scenario and hence i thought i'd give him a good 'ol pat-on-the-back for the effort and for doing his best to inject some sanity into this thread just as you are

[pads]

You are the one who is sleeping. As I have said before why don't you and others like you wake up and upgrade? That will give reason to manufacturers to upgrade to "quality products" as you said before.

What is necessary is Cos should invest in bringing out products like Yamaha did for the R15. And this will gradually happen with higher capacity machines too, give it time. People are watching the market move; the success/failure of bikes like the R15 will decide the future of biking in India.

Yes Ken, now I understood why u mentioned waiting ten years ........ now I think 10 years is also becoming very optimistic ......
and your idea of upgrading....... cooooooooool......... when they launch a new bike buy it ..... n after 1 year with 1bhp increase again buy that one ...... n again there's some cosmetic change and again buy that one too ....... wow man your idea is too awesome....... but please come back to reality ....... upgrading every year is not a joke.........

Yeah. Keep waiting! 10 years down the line, Bajaj would have developped there own 400 cc twin by then

[ken cool]

Ahem..
Guilty as charged Ken da

Oops!

I thought that everybody around here knew that the Sbks sold in India (initiated by Yamaha, who else), was NOT for figures or profitability and that they were just a brand building exercise.

That Yam exceeded their sales speculations is another story (that I have briefly touched upon in my articles in the Hard Torque section).

[sukant08]

This thread is on fire !!

[niks_devil666]

@Bandhav: I tried long and hard (unsuccessfully too) to find a flaw in your reasoning. Quite frankly, there is no loophole in your logic man

The role of the R1/Blade/Busa etc is just to draw the customer into the Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki showroom, allow him to drool on the litre bikes and then sway him into purchasing a 150 etc

Isn't that common sense I thought most of us knew about this ..... Everytime an sbk is launched , a smaller bike is advertised with it .

The thread has taken an interesting turn ... lots of good points coming up ...

[sukant08]

Isn't that common sense I thought most of us knew about this ..... Everytime an sbk is launched , a smaller bike is advertised with it .

The thread has taken an interesting turn ... lots of good points coming up ...

One exception to that is the Ducati!! They do not have a frigging smaller bike !! Gotta love the Italians !!

[ken cool]

and your idea of upgrading....... cooooooooool......... when they launch a new bike buy it ..... n after 1 year with 1bhp increase again buy that one ...... n again there's some cosmetic change and again buy that one too ....... wow man your idea is too awesome....... but please come back to reality ....... upgrading every year is not a joke.........

Exactly! Just like upgrading for Bajaj EVERY year is NOT a joke. Isn't that even cooler now!

They will give you the upgrade when YOU are ready to spend the moolah.

[satyenpoojary]

Agreed. But still they did it! Nobody else did. Not Honda. Not Suzuki.

If you ask me, Bajaj can and will do it. It won't beat the 600RR. But I think if Bajaj gets a multicylinder 400CC at 60bhp, I am pretty convinced you will buy it for 3.5L.

I can't help but agree on that one too.

Probably not. No, I am NOT a Bajaj fan. I am just giving them their due credit.

Again I will agree.

Woah Me agree to everything too.... just that we are all going gaga over vapour ware for now and not even giving due credit to the good that has happened so far!

I will by a 250 CC from TVS the day the launch it too :P

[BANDHAV]

True. But the initial euphoria gave them figures that they achieved in 5 months that Karizma cannot cope up with in an entire year! (Or almost)

We seems to have some confusion here, so what if YMIL managed some magical figure with intial run of R15, even today that differently dressed CRf 230 of ours can give beat hell out of the pesudo sports bike as far as numbers are concerned.

@Sukant08: If i have heard it right Ducati is shutting their shop here in India. I am not sure about it could be a rumor. Now this is something which belongs here "Speculation".