2009 Speculation thread: What bikes could be launched?

[insanebiker]

With equally skilled riders, Unicorn is noticeably faster in corners than the P150. Only problem which won't let you ride it faster or lean more in corners is the lowered footpegs. Otherwise, with just a sportier riding position and rear set footpegs it can be ridden faster with same power figures!

Yes, it is, thanks to it s monoshock. But in a straight line drag, a stock Uni has very minimal chances of winning against the other 150's.

Okay, that s enough. Lets not divert this thread now. Stick to the topic.

[pads]

Why do you say that this is not a good entry level road sports bike in India? If this is not, then what is!

Yeah. Keep waiting! 10 years down the line, Bajaj would have developped there own 400 cc twin by then, I would be riding a Road King and Sunny would be doing a Castrol Roadtrip to the Moon and back!

wow man....... y dnt u try mars also......
but if the cos. dont want to provide us with good n quality products, what can we do...... and y should they...... HH is doing good just giving plastic n paint jobs...... people are buying them like hot cakes....... Indian cos(TVS n Bajaj) are busy fighting among themselves n making easy money........ so being a customer wait n wait for good product or spend more than 10L and get a litre bike or bigger......
Infact it seems 10 have become the magic figure.......

[ken cool]

Arre sire, you have totally flipped the semantics of my sentance !!

HH wud still be selling Karizma R !! (I kno tis joke has becum so stale !!
My bad !! )

I knew that you would come back to semantics and and the fact that it may seem that I am tossing it around.

I know what you mean; about the linear progression of the bikes. I guess it would take around 10 odd years for that evolution to happen. It took about that long for the car market to mature from the NEP in 90-91. And still I can guarantee you this much, 100cc bikes would be the bread earners of the companies as it is in most countries (125cc actually).

wow man....... y dnt u try mars also......
but if the cos. dont want to provide us with good n quality products, what can we do...... and y should they...... HH is doing good just giving plastic n paint jobs...... people are buying them like hot cakes....... Indian cos(TVS n Bajaj) are busy fighting among themselves n making easy money....

What do you mean by "quality products"? Which product are you not satisfied with? If you want something powerful as of now, why do you not upgrade from your P150 to the P220 or the Zma? I am sure that would be reasonable upgrade. Even Aryan who shifted from 180 to 200 is currently happy about it. By the time you outgrow that upgrade, don't worry there will be enough products to entice you.

This is called "Consumerism". It has to happen.

[Sarvajit]

I agree. In fact, a modded uni with rearsets, clip ons and stickier rubber, all with the stock engine will do great on the track I believe. Chassis geometry with the monoshock is well sorted in that bike.

I cannot say the same in a straight line though.

Which is what the CBF/Stunner 150 will have!

[pads]

I knew that you would come back to semantics and and the fact that it may seem that I am tossing it around.

What do you mean by "quality products"?

This is called "Consumerism". It has to happen.

quality cannot be defined in such a way....... that depends upon the needs........ so many people are happy with their cd100 or splendor or victor or whatever it may be....... pulsar changed the scenario then many new bikes came in that segment...... slowly modern consoles also came...... but all the changes which came(except monoshock) are made by Indian cos. & not by so called renowned foreign cos.(again except R15)....... so we want world models in India at reasonable rates.......

is it Consumerism........ but I would prefer Enoughism....... same thing........ but it suits........ flood the market with normal products......... when sale drops then other models will come.........

[Sarvajit]

Would any Indian company rather prefer selling 50,000 100cc motorcycles or 500 CBU litre class bikes?
You have the answer to your question.
Otherwise we would be getting an R6 for say 6 lakhs.

[pads]

Would any Indian company rather prefer selling 50,000 100cc motorcycles or 500 CBU litre class bikes?
You have the answer to your question.
Otherwise we would be getting an R6 for say 6 lakhs.

yes, so thats it......

so cos. cant establish special showrooms for biggies........ since they are selling 100cc means they wont be able to sell 600cc or 750cc....... is this what u r saying....... very doubtful....... it seems the cos. are taking the policy of "why to invest when we can make money without investing"

[Sarvajit]

yes, so thats it......

so cos. cant establish special showrooms for biggies........ since they are selling 100cc means they wont be able to sell 600cc or 750cc....... is this what u r saying....... very doubtful....... it seems the cos. are taking the policy of "why to invest when we can make money without investing"

They can of course, but selling bigger bikes means more training, more cost of overheads, servicing facilities, spares etc.-they need to be able to attend to all after sales issues else they will lose their reputation.
All this for a niche segment of maybe a few hundred buyers?
Whereas, sadly most of the people think why even spend that kind of money on a bike when you can get a BIG car in which the whole family can travel!
But the ones who can really afford it, don't mind paying double the amount it costs elsewhere in the world, just for the thrill of it. Companies will continue to profit on those buyers.
People like us in the middle will remain cribbing like this forever. We are not satisfied with the Indian production bikes, and we cannot afford a litre class bike just because we are paying for 2!

[pranay]

Would any Indian company rather prefer selling 50,000 100cc motorcycles or 500 CBU litre class bikes?

I cannot see why both cannot be achieved.

They can of course, but selling bigger bikes means more training, more cost of overheads, servicing facilities, spares etc.-they need to be able to attend to all after sales issues else they will lose their reputation.
All this for a niche segment of maybe a few hundred buyers?
People like us in the middle will remain cribbing like this forever. We are not satisfied with the Indian production bikes, and we cannot afford a litre class bike just because we are paying for 2!

Honda flew in technicians to repair a official showroom SBK (in fireblah's thread). That shows commitment, even if it is only for a few hundred buyers. Who would have thought Yamaha's R1s would sell the way they did when they officially launched it (from corporate perspective)? But they did. Market is definitely there. Me, personally, I feel that Indian production bikes have leap frogged from where they were, say, 5 years back. But there is still a long way to go in terms of catering the willing populace who lie between 1 lakh and 10+ lakhs category.

[pads]

They can of course, but selling bigger bikes means more training, more cost of overheads, servicing facilities, spares etc.-they need to be able to attend to all after sales issues else they will lose their reputation.
All this for a niche segment of maybe a few hundred buyers?

Thats what I meant by investing....... they dont want to invest right now....... they are making easy money......
Bajaj is changing the scenario(not saying I'm a Bajaj fan)....... they should learn those things......... first Pulsar then Pro-Biking Showroom......... And then Bajaj went to sleep........

[Sarvajit]

I cannot see why both cannot be achieved.

Which they are already doing, Pranay. But what Pads is asking is why don't they set up showrooms&servicing facilities exclusively for bigger bikes?
Companies will have to either produce or assemble the bikes (say midweights-600s etc.) for them to be more affordable for us. It is not that they do not have the necessary knowledge&backup for service&spares. But they will not do so, due to reasons stated in my previous post about the ROI being very doubtful for them.
When they know that there are many many thousands of people to buy 100cc Splendors&Passions, why will they even take the pain to do all this for a minescule segment of buyers like us?
Majority of the commuters need only a frugal 100cc bike&they will remain that way.
Therefore, IMO in the current scenario it is not possible for us to upgrade to bigger machines in the near future also.

@pads: I admire Bajaj for doing what they have done. Atleast they understand that everyone cannot afford a 10 lakh rupee bike&wants something better than what we have now. And planning to launch the Ninja was a step in the right direction-to bring us a beginner sportbike at more or less the same price that anyone else gets abroad, but I think they may also be feeling that they will not get the ROI, especially considering the present recession scenario.

[pads]

When they know that there are many many thousands of people to buy 100cc Splendors&Passions, why will they even take the pain to do all this for a minescule segment of buyers like us?

Thats the problem man...... we want but we are not getting...... hope market matures after few years.......

[crazy_rahul]

If you want something powerful as of now, why do you not upgrade from your P150 to the P220 or the Zma? I am sure that would be reasonable upgrade. Even Aryan who shifted from 180 to 200 is currently happy about it. By the time you outgrow that upgrade, don't worry there will be enough products to entice you.

This is called "Consumerism". It has to happen.

and what bout people who are already riding the Zma for 5 years and wanna upgrade.. should the litre class be the only option??

[Sarvajit]

Honda flew in technicians to repair a official showroom SBK (in fireblah's thread). That shows commitment, even if it is only for a few hundred buyers. Who would have thought Yamaha's R1s would sell the way they did when they officially launched it (from corporate perspective)? But they did. Market is definitely there. Me, personally, I feel that Indian production bikes have leap frogged from where they were, say, 5 years back. But there is still a long way to go in terms of catering the willing populace who lie between 1 lakh and 10+ lakhs category.

I wholeheartedly agree with you my friend. But that is the category in which we lie.
Taking this on a bigger note, an R15/P220 is a dream for many. I am talking about people who with great difficulty can afford a Splendor/Passion.
The problem is not with the biking scenario in our country, it is with the difference between the rich&poor.
The middle/upper middle class ones are always affected by this vast difference, be it biking or anything else.
I wouldn't wanna go into other issues, let us stick to biking here!

@pads: Let us pray that the Govt.laws change&soon we start seeing CKDs of atleast mid segment bikes for around 5-6 lakhs. That will surely cheer up many of us here!

[pranay]

, why will they even take the pain to do all this for a minescule segment of buyers like us?

Thats the problem man...... we want but we are not getting...... hope market matures after few years.......

That is what I wanted to address in my last edited post. I believe the market is there. If Honda and Yamaha can sell SBKs at 10+ lacs and sell 100-125ccs at the same time, I cannot see why Ninja 250s/CBF250s/Twisters cannot enter the market at 2.5L to 3L from a manufacturers that have an even greater market share.

As Sarvajit said, maybe it might be due to recession. Maybe they believe that there is no market. But I certainly think there is a populace lying somewhere between the majority (100-125 cc) and minority (1000+cc) that manufacturers are not cashing upon. I might be wrong. Its just what I believe, especially after the success of the R15 and the FZ.
For them, I think its like diving into a pool whose depth you're not sure of. You might just hit your head hard if its shallow.

EDIT:

Taking this on a bigger note, an R15/P220 is a dream for many. I am talking about people who with great difficulty can afford a Splendor/Passion.
!

Yes, and when that dream is fulfilled, they cannot dream anymore, because of the vaaast void all the way till 10+ lacs.

Atleast, we both agree on one thing. There should be changes in laws to bring in mid segment bikes!