Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

I do like the thicker 15w40 grade, its awesome for the transmission, but it reduces mileage. Yes, the website lists only 15w40 for Rimula. I might have been mistaken as to seeing a 20w40. The dealer was taking a siesta so I couldn't ask too many questions.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Well to answer your query let me put it down in the following points:

1) I tried sourcing Rimula R4 from Chennai, but the shops I went to didn't have 10w30, only 20w40/15w40

ANS: Shell Rimula R4 as per the website of Shell India only comes in 15W40 grade (Shell Rimula R4 - India). I have not come across any 10W 30/20W 40 grades for the same. Are you sure you checked with the dealer properly about the viscosity grade? I have only used 15W 40 grade R4 oil throughout my tests and have not witnessed any problems. However, having said that please do keep mind of my disclaimer: to me this is just an experiment. Should you decide to try it please do a thorough and informed research before taking a plunge into the HDEO oil world.


2) About clutch slippage, I'm getting false neutrals in 5th gear with Honda Throttle FS 10w30, and also with Honda mineral 10w30. Is there anyway to prevent that?

ANS: "Crapstrol" errr.. i meant Castrol is one oil most of avoided engine brands by a majority of motorcycle riders primarily because of large no. of fakes available in the Indian market which cannot be easily distinguished from the original ones. Most of us avoid it like plague! If you wish to stick with standard JASO MA motorcycle engine oil then you may try Shell Advanced Ultra 10W 40 FS oil which is very popular amongst CBR owners. Regarding the 5th gear sticking/no good slick shifts, there can be multitude no. of reasons behind it: wrong clutch cable setting, wrong shifting/half shifting technique used unknowingly/misaligned or worn out gears due to premature wear or manufacturing defect/wrong or fake oil usage. As a first, you may try changing the oil brand and the clutch cable inspected/adjusted to see if the problem vanishes within the 1st 100 kms post replacement of existing oil. Back in the day when i was collecting my research before making the purchase of my CBR if i remember correctly, it was posted in some CBR ownership threads that prolonged usage of Honda throttle FS oil has resulted in oil going bad early, vibrations setting in and gear sticking issues, though i am not able to trace the thread link now.

Hope this helps, all the best..


Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

I tried sourcing Rimula R4 from Chennai, but the shops I went to didn't have 10w30, only 20w40/15w40. About clutch slippage, I'm getting false neutrals in 5th gear with Honda Throttle FS 10w30, and also with Honda mineral 10w30. Is there anyway to prevent that?

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

QUICK UPDATE:

Hi all,

hectic work load has kept me away from long distance rides for a while so at the moment, the majority of my riding has been limited to regular commuting within the premises of my place of stay and to work. As of now i have managed to cover around 2,162 kms with the 4th round of Shell Rimula R4 HDEO engine oil (15W 40) and the engine is still running smooth with no unwanted vibrations, noises, notchy gears, no clutch slippage, power loss, loss in FE or anything!! My CBR is still running healthy and hasn't shown any signs of going weak on performance or on FE. The image below is the current condition of the engine oil which to my understanding shows a lot of particulate matter under suspension in the oil. The colour is blackish dark amber.



Pic 1: current engine oil colour @2162 kms with 4 round of Shell Rimula R4.

However, being an OCMD rider i have decided to chicken out from pushing this HDEO oil any further than 2500 kms and will put my bike up on the SVC paddock stand for a fresh batch of Shell Advanced Ultra FS 10W40 motorcycle engine oil. Once i do two rounds with regular motorcycle based engine oil (read approx 10,000 kms), i shall again do one more round of Shell Rimula R4 and see what is the max no. of kms this HDEO oil can be pushed to. I believe with the results achieved so far, it is safe to state that the Shell Rimula R4 HDEO mineral oil can be used upto 2500 kms easily on a Honda CBR 250R. For me beyond 2,500 kms is still an uncharted territory on this bike.

In terms of "proof in the pudding" consider this: as of now it takes the total distance covered with HDEO oil to 4328.7 + 2162 = 6490.7 kms (Refer to this post for last log with HDEO oil change: http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...ml#post1197380). So far with the usage of this oil, nothing has blown up, leaked, no power loss nothing bad has happened!! I have never 'babied' my bike. Regular rides with normal speeds, a good dose of stop & go traffic and at times spirited riding has been done to give various kinds of loads to the CBR's engine and to the vehicle overall. Mind you the above total kms reading is also applicable for the Yamaha FZ engine oil filter which has been used throughout the duration of this experiment as an alternative engine oil filter to OEM one from Honda and till date nothing has gone wrong with the engine. So unless there is any counter data to prove it otherwise, in my books the cheap Yamaha FZ oil filter works!!

However having said that, i intend to do further tests: use this alternative FZ oil filter but now along with JASO recommended Shell advanced Ultra FS 10W 40 oil to see if my vehicle still remains healthy or any future untoward incident takes place. Let me push the usage of FZ's oil filter to another 10 - 20,000 kms which shall give us a concrete base line to confirm if this unapproved alternative engine oil filter which has been designed for a 150cc engine can work safely than OEM engine oil filter @3rd the cost. More tests are definitely warranted to confirm the theory whether better filtration and better flow due to more no. of pleats and larger surface area (refer to this post: http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...ml#post1170005) is the net result of seamless functioning of my CBR till now and hopefully in the near future.

Let me stress on this again: i donot advocate the above mentioned experiment to anybody! It is purely a mere series of tests of theory done by an OCMD rider!! Should you decide to follow my footsteps.. you are doing so with your own free will!!

Now i wish to share an annoying recurrence of a problem with my CBR. The darn chain slider is failing rather quickly and comes off from its harness in less than 800 - 1000 kms. The last time i applied glue to hold the chain slider in its place, it stayed there for about 3,000 kms and then, the lower half came off!



Pic 2: Lower half of the chain slider currently dangling.

I intend to devise a permanent solution to this which hopefully should help me get rid of this problem once and for all.


Shall cover a detailed log of the next run with Shell Advanced Ultra FS oil with FZ oil filter combo in the upcoming post. Until then ciao...




Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Hi mate,

Definitely sudden hard acceleration and deceleration will load the drive chain quite a bit and will lead to its early demise. I hope you are keeping the cleaning and lubrication as per the recommended intervals as elongating time frame between the servicing does effect the life of the chain. If you are into heavy gear braking instead of rev matching/throttle blipping while downshifting that will also lead to a lot of stress and load being transferred to the engine and the drive chain, leading to quicker wearing out of the same.

For those readers who like to know a bit more about rev matching/throttle blipping & Gear Breaking while downshifting, the video link below should help you with that:



I feel that my practice of using rev matching has also reduced the wear and tear on the engine components and the drive chain with the end result being what has been mentioned above. Anyways thanks to the weather and the mud bath my bike takes every week, i have no choice but to keep the drive chain clean and lubricated more often. May be you can give it a try and see if you observe any changes with the life of the same. I don't baby my bike but at the same time i don't unnecessarily go for a twist of the wrist unless it is required. So no special treatment has been given except what has been recommended by the OEM and following a few riding techniques of the master "Keith Code".


Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R


You have no idea how jealous i am reading that. Here i am having to adjust it every 2k kms or less, even with proper lubing and cleaning.
Lots of sudden acceleration and deceleration does tend to have a factor i guess.

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

QUICK UPDATE:

Dear all,

i have now covered around 1656 kms with the 4th round of Shell Rimula R4 HDEO oil and so far things are ticking absolutely fine. No sign of engine note getting harsher, no clutch slippage, gear sticking or any unwanted noise from the engine bay. The engine oil has now turned dark amber. So my guess is, this time i should be able to easily surpass the 2,000 kms mark without any hiccups. However, shall continue monitoring. This time the engine is definitely feeling better, even after crossing the 1600 kms mark. Can we consider this as a sure shot sign of positive recovery? I can only do a best guess that from the data collected so far and the behaviour shown by my motorcycle: things are looking better! Hopefully the net result will be what has always been the sole intent of this whole experiment: engine clean up and recovery using an HDEO oil with high content of detergent and ZDDP.


One more interesting thing i want to share with all the dear readers: My CBR has covered around 7, 200 kms since the date of ownership and so far the new chain has not been adjusted even once! Dedicated lubrication has been done as per recommended intervals mentioned in the service manual, using plain 'ol gearbox oil and the chain has been cleaned by simply using diesel and that's about it. No fancy chain spray or cleaning spray! So in my humble experience, unless one is gung-ho about keeping the rear alloy rim spic and span, don't bother going for chain sprays.. the "Sasta aur Sada" (plain & cheap) method of using SAE grade Gearbox oil available at any petrol pump will do just fine.

I have an interesting video for those who would like to learn a bit more about "O/X ring" chains and what things to look out for when lubricating it:



My bike has now covered around 550 kms with the All Balls tapered roller steering bearings and in the handling department i am happy to report that on potholes my CBR simply glides over without sending aftershocks to the clip ons. However, i will have to further tighten the locknut by just a little bit as on extremely bad roads the "khat" noise is prominent indicating a bit of tweaking required. Besides that, the tapered roller bearings does what has been advertised. I am hopeful that compared to standard ball bearings this one should easily last longer due to more surface area contact and better tolerance to radial & co-axial loads which, on the roads of North East India: it will receive in plenty.

Anyways, i decided to add one more toy to control my OCMD!! Got hold of a universal adjustable paddock stand for my CBR 250R from GA Engineering Auto Accessories (info courtesy @AK3D and vendor link: https://www.facebook.com/GA-Engineer...2078363388052/) The seller was exceptionally pro-active and kept monitoring the consignment till it was delivered at my doorstep, not something usually seen with other vendors providing similar items/accessories. It is very reasonably priced compared to the other branded competitors in the indian market and the build quality is pretty good.





Pic 1 & 2: Universal adjustable paddock stand from GA Engineering Auto Accessories. Decided to stick and All Balls Racing stickers on the paddock stand for cosmetic purpose. Note the side stand is not touching the surface (forgot to put it back in retracted position).

I decided to go for an adjustable one so that incase, i do strike gold in the near future and go for a higher CC range then this paddock stand will remain usable for the same. For those who want to get their hands on Honda SVC like paddock stand, GA Engineering is selling one for around Rs. 2,200/- (Shipping charges additional). This is indeed a worthy investment and i am happy with the purchase. Highly recommended for anyone getting tired of using desi jugaad to lube, inspect rear end of the vehicle and damaging the side stand in the process. This will save you the headache.

Moving on, the exhaust heat shield had quite a lot of scratch marks right from the day i had purchase the motorcycle. My best guess is, the previous owner had managed to scratch the heat shield while parking or taking out the vehicle from a crowded space. Since, the exhaust shield was relatively in good shape, i decided to try my own painting skills to spray 2 liberal coats of canned spray paint on it. Do pardon the poor workmanship but i guess for cosmetic job, it should do just fine. I will use dulling spray at a later stage to give the overall paint the matt black look. Total cost just 100 bucks/- and a simple DIY.



Pic 3: My horrible painting skills using a 100 bucks worth of spray paint. Will use dulling spray to give a matt finish at a later stage.

I am waiting for my other lot of consignment to arrive so that next set of exciting 'personalisation' can begin Until then... do watch out for more on this space..

Thanks for your periodic updates. It is due to the readers and active members like you we now have started pooling in proper data and experience on this thread which i am sure will help any person to analyse and understand that whatever experimental methods that have been discussed here: whether there is any truth behind it! At the end of the day it is the practical experience is what can be valid.. simply tall claims for any method or product without evidence is useless and not encouraged on this thread at all. Thanks again much appreciated!

Thank you for sharing. I hope you will post your experience on this thread as you start clocking kms with this oil. However, do bear in mind: to me this is simply an experiment! If you have made the decision to try it first hand after making an informed decision, i am glad that it is not just me who wishes to uncover the truth behind the +ves and -ves of using an HDEO oil in a motorcycle engine. All the best with your endeavour and thanks again.


Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

It was little tough to find Shell Rimula R4 in western suburbs of mumbai. But atlast found one shop which sells almost all veriety of shell oil.
For mumbai guys here is the address



On my first fill of rimula oil, i didnot observed any smoothness in bike vibs or in gear shifting. It is giving me the feeling that i never changed the oil. Just completed 100 kms on new oil, will observe for few kms more.
Lets hope for good...

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Deleted duplicate post.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Just an update to the HDEO treatment. I've done the second round of R4, changed back to FS now. Notable points are;

1. Engine is butter smooth even in higher rpms.
2. There is notable increase in midrange response (read stronger midrange)
3. Increase in FE, though marginal is more than welcome!

This time, the R4 lasted a whole 3.5K clicks. Yet to try the earth wire mod.

I've opted for the HDEO treatment of my own accord and am willing to live with failures if any! (touch wood)

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Saar do bear in mind Rimula R4 is a multigrade HDEO mineral oil. At the moment i am taking things slowly to ensure that i don't push my luck too far. The main factor behind this whole experiment was to ensure a gradual and mild clean up of the engine internals while giving it maximum protection with a higher ZDDP content oil.. whether it is able to last 3,500 kms or not is actually secondary for me. But if it does survive 3,500 kms+ then as mentioned earlier, it may be beneficial for some riders who clock very low mileage per month and want to keep maintenance cost on the lower side.

Abroad they use Shell Rotella T6 HDEO oil which is FS in nature and has given superior performance in comparison to standard motorcycle based engine oils. Some of the video logs/links:








Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Shocked!! Really shocked to see Rimula manages only 3500 Km? Are you sure or did I misunderstand anything?

Shell 10W40 Ultra FS has lasted about 8000 Km for me with hard gear shifts as it surpasses 7K Km, not once, but I've tested it twice within a Lakh Km.

However one drawback is that, the oil level starts depleting (I usually fill 1600 ml+ for first time) after 4000 Km & after 6000 Km, it has to be topped every 1000 Km. Shell 10W40 FS is bang value for money for my kind of use, I'm already frustrated changing oil every 3-4 months & looking forward for some other superior engine oil that lasts 10,000 Km, if you find any...please ping me. Thanks

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

QUICK UPDATE:

Dear all, here is a quick update on the experience so far with tapered roller bearing and suspension tuning..


I had covered an initial distance of around 110 kms since, the installation of All Balls Tapered Roller bearings along with increasing fork spring pre-load and using 340 ml of fork oil. However, after the completion of the same a few things became very apparent:

1) There was a "khat" noise emanating from the front top triple tree.

2) The front tire was losing about 2 - 4 psi on an average making it difficult to gauge the current set up.

3) On filling up proper tire pressure, the front felt being to reactive/jumping around to feedback from the road conditions prevailing in and around my place.

So sighting the above i decided to take care of each issue step by step. First, i had to adjust & tighten the lock nut which sits on top of the steering bearings to get rid of the unwanted play that was detected. The readers may take note that initially me and the mechanic had intentionally kept the lock nut slightly lose in order to gauge the set up first and then make adjustments without going overboard with tightening of the same. The SVC mechanic did the needful and once, i was satisfied with the adjustments, the locknut was tightened properly as per the specs and the "Khat" noise vanished completely.

Secondly, the front tire losing quite a bit of tire pressure made it evident that either there was a puncture, the air fill in valve might be leaking or else there is air leakage from the side wall. So with the help of my base mechanic, we managed to take out the front tire. On further inspection, it was found that the front alloy had a minute but visible dent as shown in the pic below. However, there was no air leakage from that point. The tire guy then used a frothy concoction of water and shampoo in between the rim edge and the tire to see if there was any visible leakage/air bubbles forming. It was then discovered that quite a bit area of the alloy had air bubbles forming indicating a leak in between side walls and the alloy wheel. He then went ahead and dismantled the front tire form the rim to inspect the innards. Then the inner edge of the mag wheel were inspected and it became clear that quite a bit of the OEM paint on the inner part of the alloy wheel had started flaking off due to interaction with moisture and as a result there were minuscule pockets forming in between the tire wall and the alloy wall: resulting in an easy passage for the air to get away from. The tire shop guy, using an 80 grit sand paper then sanded off the flaking paint from the inner side of the alloy, applied Vaseline petroleum jelly, re-seated the front tire onto the alloy and then filled the front tire with air. After that, the tire was submerged under water to see if any bubbles or leakage was found again. Thankfully this time the tire wall mounted onto the alloy properly and there was no air leakage from the side wall. So the second issue was addressed as well.



Pic 1: Note the slight bend discovered on the front alloy wheel all thanks to the roads of the North East - India. No air was leaking from the bent side of the alloy rim.

Moving onto the third one, from the bouncy nature of the front suspension it was pretty clear that the current spacer along with higher amount of fork oil had made the set up too stiff for the road conditions prevailing here. So i had to take the either steps: a) reduce the fork oil to 331 ml on each side b) remove the custom spacers and see if the net result is satisfactory.

I decided to go with plan "b)" so again the services of the SVC mechanic was employed. He was very quick in removing the custom spacers without dis-assembling the whole front fork. I do like the desi jugaad method at times!!



Pic 2: Custom spacer getting removed from the front fork.

Once, everything was put back in i thanked the SVC guy, cleared my bills and went on to do a bit more run and see if this new set up works for me. I then covered a total of 246 kms since, the installation of the same.

OBSERVATIONS:

* The front suspension even though planted was far more firmer and the front dived much lesser when in comparison to OEM set up.
* The brake bite feel on the front lever was much more prominent.
* There has been a noticeable improvement on the front tire grip especially when dealing with dusty or wet surface. Earlier the front tire was a bit more skittish.
* The bike remains rock steady and there seems to be far lesser unwanted feedback coming from the front to the handlebar.

An interesting thing i did note that it seems to be the case that the theoretical info and possibilities of Radial and Co-Axial load bearing capacity of the Tapered Roller Bearings seems to be turning out true so far. There has been a noticeable improvement in cornering capabilities of my CBR 250R and on the bad roads i can happily glide over without feeling any unwanted feedback or the front steering torquing by itself to left or right without the input of the rider. The vehicle does feel more planted. But then again more observation is necessary to see what are net gains (if any) from installing/using this set up over OEM stock ball steering bearings. I will post my observations once, i cross 1,000 kms with this set up.

I would also like to point out to all my CBR owners that Honda does sell stickers/graphics on the tank or on the panels individually as shown in the parts catalogue. Though placing and order, rather to convince an SVC to place an order will be a herculean task as the arrival time is painstakingly quite long! But regardless, if one is resourceful this is possible.



Pic 3: parts catalogue indicating availability of stickers/graphics on a CBR250R. One can purchase theses items individually. The one above is for the Pearl Sunbeam White colour i believe.

The gears are still butter smooth and slick and no unwanted noise from the engine bay has been observed. I have covered roughly 1200 kms and so far things have been peachy with the 4th round of Shell Rimula R4 HDEO oil doing duty on my CBR 250R.

There is more to come as i continue logging kms.. till then watch out on this space..

Whenever i had technical queries or troubleshooting, the one person from whom i have always received satisfactory answer is Mr. Vikram, Motozone.


Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

@shv18 sorry for taking up your thread. but since this is also a thread related to CBR250R thread I am replying to it.

Currently my bike is suffering from either of chain tensioner or shim or timing chain related issue. I am not able to figure it out. The sound can be best described as a stitching sound. So I went ahead and tried to diagnose the actual culprit.

While trying the DIY chain tensioner method carried out by maneesh a.ka. @sman999, I found that the current allen key bolt installed in the chain tensioner was already loose. Suspecting this could be the culprit in the stitching sound, I tightened it and then went on for a spin, for few moments the stitching sound did not bother me, it could be psychological effect. But after 2 km ride the sound came again. pissed off went home and did the DIY what maneesh has done and then again went on for a spin. the sound is still there. so it is confirmed that the shims are culprit here.

Spoke to Honda mech (Abdul from Vihaan Honda - thane) where I go for service, on call. Now the theory he is presenting about shim noise is that they cannot fit in shim with lesser clearance. I told him about the clearance values (Intake valve clearance: 0.16 +/- 0.03 mm, Exhaust valve clearance: 0.27 +/- 0.03 mm ). He said this is all right, but they purposely give a bit more clearance so that the vales don't get bent while running. Somebody please put some light on this, Fitting a bigger shim will put the valves at risk and at such a risk that they might get bent ?

I have taken an appointment to get the shims checked or replaced on 25th Feb as I am currently in pune and yet to find a decent SVC who can carry out this job here.

If somebody can point me to a competent SVC who can do this job in pune, I will be very much grateful.

Few insights on my riding style :

1. always shifting at around 4-5K rpm never exceeded that
2. Gradual acceleration and de-acceleration
3. Sudden acceleration once or twice in 50 times maybe, but it is rarest of the rare affair.
4. Servicing is done at proper intervals and proper time and at proper km clocking.
5. Engine oil used Shell Ultra advance 10W 40
6. anything else missed out please let me know.

I would also want to know few reasons on why the shims wear out so fast.

Cheers,
Sanjay

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

SHV 18....Another Very informative post with relevant Pictures...They say a Picture is worth a thousand words , and your posts with so many pictures are self explanatory and gives a better understanding of the process you undertake in fine tuning your CBR 250 to your taste and performance....

Do keep up the Good Work.
Good Luck
Ride Safe.