thank you sandeep for putting up specific questions, here's the answer to all of those..
and some of my questions inside too..


okay agreed, I'll do it if you want me to, but I'll have to remove all the wiring for this

okay.
again in my case stock wire is thinner also is less winded as far as turns are concerned.
I've used better gauge, also way to much better turns..
i also agree that the rr can be faulty, but tell me, if the battery can get sufficiently charged with 14.2 volts (without load) i don't see a reason as why should it not get charged with 35 or 90 volts..
my battery should be fried or even burnt, but it not getting charged with this 90 volts, how can it charge with 14???

i don't have a laptop at home, I'll send it for charging or will find a way...

i repeat
PLEASE people whoever have converted their bike to full dc, post your rr voltages, rr's output without any load, at so and so rpm,
do let me know red line output too...
would be very very helpful...

Noooo
it damaged as my dad kept it in my drawer and it dropped sideways, in result everything inside it came out (i mean electrolyte)
i NEVER used the ape rr with a 2.5 amp battery except testing twice for merely 20 seconds..
and yes i tested it befor that electrolyte spilling incident

well, the voltage range across revv range in both the batteries were same...
to know weather battery is faulty or not..

i repeat again, when my battery is already charged, happened 3 times, it shows great results but when its discharged it shows all this 11.2 to 11.5

copy that...

@ all

desperately waiting for your posts regarding ape rr output (without load) and further comments..

@dr
where are you doc,
sajan and me are confused..
you use 12 feet per pole, even i do, why can't i use both of them as hid at a time??

tumhaara khoon khoon, hamaara khoon paani ??
just kidding, don't take it on heart..

i would love to see this question's answer...

cellphone chargers have rating of 5v while the battery produces 3.7V. what happens if you connect a 12V source to your cellphone battery?
I once connected a cellphone battery to 12v battery to charge it(because of power failure and I needed the battery charged urgently) but no luck.
your battery may be damaged, that is the reason I asked you to test your battery in the way I told. if battery failure is ruledout then proceed in a different way.

I just gave an example of the laptop charger. do you have any other AC-DC adapters in your home? or just buy one with min 1A rating, would cost less than 150rs and please please do the test.

get your old battery refilled and test it.

I know its very frustating for you but calm down and youll find answers one by one with the helpof fellow members

thanks sandeep, i'll do it soon and post here..

besides i am in a urgent help from fellow xbhp members and headlight emperors to give me voltage from the apr ee without load, across revv range..

AC to DC Stator Conversion Instructions

(Floating the ground)
Overview:

The following procedure is intended to convert AC (Alternating Current) electrical systems to DC (Direct Current). A qualified
technician should perform this process. These instructions and illustrations are based on a KTM EXC stator, some other models
that can be converted with these instructions are:
KTM 400-525 All Models
KTM 250,300 All Models
This document assumes that the stator already has lighting coils. If your stator does not have lighting coils, changing the
flywheel and stator is possible.

Tools Required

Preferred Tools

Step #1

a. Remove the stator cover, shifter, gas tank and seat to expose the connections to the stator wiring.

Note: 4 strokes are oil-bath stators so the bike needs to lay on its side to retain the oil

Step #2

Step #3

a. Locate the stator Ground wire (see Fig. 1). Heat solder and remove this wire from the ground lug. (see Fig. 2)
b. Locate the stator AC Output wire (see Fig. 1). Heat solder and remove this wire from its solder lug. (see Fig. 2)
Straiten these two wires and trim if necessary.
c. Locate the stator Center Tap wires (see Fig. 1). Heat solder and remove these wires from their solder lug. (see Fig. 2)

Figure 1. Figure 2.
Step #4

Solder an extension wire to the ground lead (see Fig. 2). If 18 or 20-gage magnet wire (class H or Class C) is available, the pole
can be wound to capacity, an additional 10% of power can be gained for lighting or other use (see Fig 3).

Figure 3.
Step #5

Figure 4.
Step #6

Locate and prepare wires under fuel tank as shown in Figure 6. Note that some models do not have some of the wires shown
in figure 6 jump to Step #9 for bikes not originally equipped with a electric starter and lighting.

(Note: If the 12v + terminal is not disconnected in previous Step #1 cutting wires may burn the inline fuse)

Figure 5.

Bike with electric start & lighting

Step #7

The parts shown in Figure 6 are removed and scrapped for the DC conversion on a bike equipped with a factor electric
start and lighting. Replace the stock Regulator/Rectifier with Trail Tech Regulator/Rectifier Part# 7002-RR150 or
equivalent.

Figure 6
Step #8

Connect Yellow and white wires from stator to Yellow wires on regulator/rectifier (see Fig 6.). Note there are no polarity
requirements for the Yellow wires into the regulator/rectifier.
Connect the Black Wire from regulator/rectifier and brown wire from stock wiring to frame ground.

(Note: If frame ground is not desired, the black wire from regulator/rectifier can be connected to the
brown wire from stock wiring.)

Connect the Yellow wires with red stripe to red wire from regulator/rectifier (+ 12 volts DC).
If a small battery is used, the blue wire from regulator/rectifier can be connected to the negative terminal of the battery to prevent
over-charging of the battery.
Connect the Yellow wire from stock wiring to the red wire from regulator/rectifier (Yellow is +12 volts to light switch).
If the stock four-stroke battery is used, the blue wire from the regulator/rectifier can be cut and not used. For this option, the
black wire from the regulator/rectifier can be connected to the negative terminal of the battery. If frame ground is desired, the
black wire from the regulator/rectifier can be connected to frame ground.

Figure 7.
Step #9 Bik

es without lighting

Find a suitable mounting location for a Regulator/Rectifier see Figure #9.
Connect the 2 A/C output wires from the stator to Yellow wires on regulator/rectifier (see Fig 8.). Note there are no polarity
requirements for the Yellow wires into the regulator/rectifier.
Connect the Black Wire from regulator/rectifier to battery or capacitor and or frame ground and lighting (-12 volts DC)

(Note: If frame ground is not desired, the black wire from regulator/rectifier can be connected directly to the battery.)

If a small battery is used, the blue wire from regulator/rectifier can be connected to the negative terminal of the battery to prevent
over-charging of the battery.
If a stock sized motorcycle battery is used, the blue wire from the regulator/rectifier can be cut and not used.
Connect the red wire from regulator/rectifier (+ 12 volts DC) to the battery and the switch being used for lighting.
The connections shown in Figure #8 are made using Trail Tech Stock Connector Crimping Kit Part# HT230C.

Figure 8.

Bike without electric start or lighting

Figure 9.


for detail and diagram http://trailtech.net/media/electrica...conversion.pdf

1. Originally posted by Shreeni0403 View Post

   Why won't the battery support 35w X 2 HID's when you can have 35W X 3?? Or do u mean that using single HID will cause problem and dual won't cause problem.

common.quick please.



well here is the output of 19 awg 12 feet per pole with a 7 pole stator with fully charged 9 amp battery...

first reading is no load,second is with load of one hid+9 leds+5 watt tail.

• engine off,ign off-12.7volts,ign on engine off-12.4volts
• 1k-12.6/12.4
• 2k-13.0/12.7
• 3k-13.5/13.0
• 4k-13.9/13.4
• 5k-14.5/13.8
• 6k-14.7/13.8
• 7k-14.7/13.9
• 8k-14.7/13.9
• 9k-14.7/13.9

now if i use another hid with the existing load the on load volatage never cross 12.4 even in high rpms(more then 6k).now i checked the amps with 2 hids

• 1k-6amps short
• 2k-5 amps short
• 3k-4.5 amps short
• 4k-4 amps short
• 5k-3.8 amps short
• 6k-3 amps short
• 7k-1 amps short
• 8k-0amps short
• 9k-0amps short

now if i press the break or horn or use indicator the condition worsens.that is why a more powerfull coil is needed.

now i used 18 gauge not much diff.used 17.5,some relief,finally used 17 gauge solved,but in a painfull way as we need to use 12 feet per pole to keep the low rpm voltage stable,it was immensely painfull for who winded it.2 stator base gone because of extream tension was used to 12 feet per pole,bearly ~9 foot was possible,but again and again the man tried and finally on his 4 th try we did it successfully.

now the output of the coil with 17 awg,12feet per pole,9 amp battery

ign off -12.7volts
ign on,engine off-12.4 volts

first is no load,second is full load=2 hid+9 led+5watt tail+21 watt break+2 mico horns+indicators.

1k-13.2/ 12.1nd fallin
2k-14.84/12.45 stable
3k-14.88/13.1 nd rising
4k-14.89/13.6 nd rising
5k-14.89/14.42 nd rising
6k-14.89/14.39 nd rising

then i checked the amps......

• 1k-3.8 amps short
• 2k-1.5 amps short,if i dont press the break and dont use the horn then no short
• 3k-0 amps short

from 3 k + rpm the positive amp is there which is charging the battery.

total max out is 12 amps@8k rpm,yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

break off rpm with no charge no discharge is arround 2~3 k rpm,that means in city limits also i canuse 2 hids.


@NANO-please elaborate your problem,hid not wokin?what about the halogen?also are you using that low beam hid,high beam both by some wire mod.please dont do that,keep it simple,then check.also never,i repeat never use this rr with out a batery,if u check the previous posts i told you that.also i thought you posted the raw out put of coil that 50-90 volts figs?if the dc out is like that then the rr is gone buddy as you have already did some weired connections before like altering the wires to troubleshoot before.

hope this helps

thanks a lot doc, for the detailed post...

let me elaborate the problem first..
i was riding for 4 days during day time only...
used horn and indicators only to pull battery...
battery was amazingly charged....
the 4th day i had to ride in the night for some time, roughly 45 mins, with normal traffic conditions, no b2b, i was at roughly 60-70

slowly my tacho stopped working...
my console lights turned dimmer and dimmer..
i ONLY used hid all that time, never used both even once...
suddenly my hid used to flicker at idling,
i kept revving a bit, or holding the throttle and it stopped flickering and i kept doing it for 15 mins,
i was scared that the hid will get spoilt, hence i switched it off..

i kept it off for some time almost 15 mins, and when i switched it on, again it gave out a terrible color and sound as it was some short circuit..
i kept it off...

okay, my hid is fine, but that new battery is also not getting charged, as 1/2 hour of ride with only hid on, did drain my battery completely..


the output that i had written previously were without battery of rr itself, not the raw stator..
it reached 90 volts....
to be more clear, the output was of the YELLOW and BLACK wire of the rr unit..


tell me
is my rr gone for a toss??
how come that happen,
i think I'll have to buy a new one...

what i actually wanted to know from all you people is---
what was the output of your rr, (yellow and black wire) WITHOUT the battery, as it will confirm my rr's being faulty or not..

i know i am asking for too much, but imagine this, if i do buy a new ape rr, and later it also shows 90 volts (if not connected to battery) then??

1 more thing..
doc,
your reading and my reading from ape rr, i.e

• 1k-12.6/12.4
• 2k-13.0/12.7
• 3k-13.5/13.0
• 4k-13.9/13.4
• 5k-14.5/13.8
• 6k-14.7/13.8
• 7k-14.7/13.9
• 8k-14.7/13.9
• 9k-14.7/13.9

i also get almost SAME readings if the battery is connected...

i want to know that if it is giving not more than 14.2 at red-line with battery connected, how come it be faulty ??
please post your readings, by disconnecting the battery....

Swapping the parking with LED only will pump 45w Then why to bother

Doktor, I think Nano will need the RR output volts without battery connected. That is the only way he can test if his RR is working fine or conked off.

Dude you are pumping 12amps from your coil ?? Holy !! And how are cutting off that power during day time?? Using relays to trigger the RR only when headlights are ON or is it charging all the time ?? Why don't you put a carrier at back and put a 26aH battery as well

Sorry mates, been offline for a couple of days. Lot of discussions have made in this. Here are my 2 cents.

Hey dude, seems its confusing with the figures as the readings are very much promising. 60-70kph range is mine too, so if that happens it should affect me too. No way its an average rpm 4-5K so it should pump a min of 5-6A. So what could be the reason?

Check the wirings, connections etc once again. With a healthy batt one 35W HID can survive only a max of 20-25 mins but u've crossed that too. That means its charging at a moderate rate or so. But in the mean while what about a chance of blown fuse? Have u checked?

Have u checked the batt for the charge holding? U can easily do this once u go to any batt servicing shop by paying anything. Check the charging rates too, they've got a good quality meter to check this.

But once u got the HID flickering and when u twisted the throttle it become stable. That shows ur RR is good. I've tested with a flat batt with HID for 2-3 days and the same thing will happen if the rpm falls below 2K. THats what I said earlier its bit confusing. I doubt the batt. It may not be holding the charge. Since u didnt used the HID for 2 days and the charging rates are healthy u may not notice this.


Dont worry, we can rule out every possible component.


What about a RR swap? Go to any local spare shop and ask for a APE RR. Mostly they've a local make for 650/- ask whether they've OE, if not tell them that u'll ask the mech this will do or not. If the mech agrees u'll not return it, otherwise u'll return it within 1hr and the shopwala has to refund. If he agrees this condition, get that rr and go to any street corner and test with this new one and convince the voltages and have a test run with that. I hope this thing u can acheive with the help of proper sockets to the APE RR. I've tried the same trick to test my RR.

I've checked the RR with an auto electrican too, but he was checking the continuity and confirmed that its OK, But if RR is faulty it cant be confirmed with this check. Its just checking the diodes are ok or not.

When for the first time I tried the APE RR, I've no one to give any tips so what I did is, I just connected the coils to the grey wires, black to the gnd and kept the yellow open and tested the output. It showed only 6v and even on the high rpm it was reducing IIRC. I kept it aside and tested with a local one got the same results and confirmed that its OK. Now I tried to touch the yellow wire to the batt +ve I could see the sparks of good amps and I connected and measured the volt and amps and rest is history.

Are you good in junk hunting? Go for an RR hunt. U'll get this spare one for 300/- mine is a junk yard scrap. Being that was an OE I took it.


Without batt, RR behaves weird, so don't worry about that, as the batt itself act as a filter as well as a buffer too. So our main concern is the DC voltage with the batt connected.

Here's my readings with CCFL,consoles and tail lights as its connected to charging relay. I cant take a reading unless I by pass the relay.

Engine off 12.8
2K - 13
3K - 14
4K-9K - 14.2

This may vary as my batt is now fully charged due to the park light was on my last 30min drive.

I cant take the amps as MM's that facility is already burnt months back, today am planning to buy a new one and get it updated.



@ Shree, which parking light will take a whopping 45W? Positions lights will be of 5W each or am I confused with ur post?

Swapping the parking with LED only will pump 45w Then why to bother

well.
i am confused with your post sajan...
first of all
you said that your rr's yellow wire gave out 6 volts....
when it was not connected to a battery..
no matter how hard you revved???

mine is giving out 90 volts at higher rpms....
and giving 13-16 volts at idling only...

secondly
you said that rr can give out crazy readings if not connected to battery...
now i am confused...


well
i am good in junkyard hunting for car products and bike products but 3 wheeler is very hard to find...

besides if i am sure that my rr is faulty then I'll buy a new one from an official dealer only...

i didn't connect the black wire to ground, i connected it to the -ve of the battery...

my ape rr's output when connected to the battery gives out all those readings which you people are getting...
if you guys are getting similar readings until 90 volts at higher rpm's without the battery then my rr is okay, if not then my rr is bad, if it is bad, I'll swap it with a new one..
and yes i would like to get more than 1 reading.
i mean
since shreeni is with a zmr now (lucky chap)
then its upto sajan and doc to let me know the rr's output....
if would be great if you guys take some stress in checking it for me once...

35W stock headlight + 10w positioning light = 45w.
10w-15w extra load shouldn't harm the battery IMO considering UG4 is a all DC bike.

okok,dont be paranoid and confused.trouble shoot one by one.....

• your battery slowly died,that means the charging is faulty,very less chance the battery is bad because its a new one and it holded up for 45 min,and slow decrease of performance with dying tacho is classical of discharging battery.
• just get yourself a car amp meter shown above 30 amp rated or less.test the system with that as followed....

connect your battery positive and negetive terminal to a digital multimeter to see the dc voltage.

remove all the positive terminal wires from the battery and connect it to the ammeter s LOAD marked terminal (all wires include all wires were previously on the battery positive terminal).

connect a higher gauge wire to battery s positive terminal to amp meters terminal which is marked as battery.

get a pen and paper to note down the readings.....

see the voltage across the rev range with the amp readings.

ampmeter is the only way instant way top know whats wrong in ur system.

if the ampmeter is goin a bit on positive side with load from 2k rpm and above=ok
if the ampmeter is going to the negetive side with the load irrespective whatever rpm is there=charging is faulty.

also keep an eye on voltage.

now if your ampmeter is going to the negetive side with load even after 2k rpm onwords then check the raw output of the stator in ac mode of dmm and put the chart here. if the voltage are 13~120 volts ac then your rr is faulty.

PS.....NEVER USE RR OUTPUT WITH OUT A BATTERY,NEVER....PERIOD.

MOST PROBABLE DIAGNOSIS IN YOUR CASE IS LIKE A BUSTED RR BECAUSE OF MAL HANDLING BEFORE.

@shree- the battery will be in stress,ok in short rides but in long rides not at all recommended.
26 amps battery,hehe.!
no,no cutout,the rr is too active and intelligent,only the amps are there when you put the load else the amp is reduced ,even up to 2 amps sometimes,,

Few pictures of my ZMR installed with Dual Tube HID's.

The Dual Barrel HID


The Ballast on LHS


The Ballast on RHS along with Relays used in Skoda's


Snaps of HID's in action.. Coming shortly

hello guys.

@ shreeni
wow man, looks great and very neat.
waiting for the beam pics...

@ all

guys.
hello and there's a bad news.
I didn't find an ammeter like doc said, the one with a -ve as well as +ve.
i went to roughly 15 shops, everybody had ammeter starting from 0 to +ve, but no one had a -ve and a +ve together with 0 in between..

so i came back and tried this multimeter of mine, as it has a 10 amp + and - so i thought atleast it will show me the desired amps being puled it..

i spoke to doc today, he guided me very well and i did exactly the same..

but it did satisfy me with the results..

i connected the terminals of the multimeter in amp mode to battery +ve and all the elecctricals from bike which goes to +ve.

it was 0 when the bike was off, key was also switched off.
as soon as i switched the key on, it showed 1.5 to 2 amps -ve

@ engine off
battery connected with key on ------- -1.5 amps
headlight switch on (low beam) ------ -4.3 amps
headlight switch on (both) ----------- -8.7 amps

didn't check with horn and brake light as i didn't want my battery to finish before completing the task.

now i started the engine..
@ engine on
battery connected with key on ------ 0.7 amps
headlight switch on (low beam) ----- -3.6 amps
headlight switch on (both) ---------- -7.9 amps

i did revv the engine without load..

@ engine on idling ----- 0.7 amps
on 1k rpm -------------- 0.7 amps
on 2k rpm -------------- 0.8 amps
on 3k rpm -------------- 0.8 amps
on 4k rpm -------------- 0.9 amps
on 5k rpm -------------- 1.0 amps
on 5k rpm -------------- 1.0 amps
on 6k rpm -------------- 1.1 amps
on 7k rpm -------------- 1.1 amps
on 8k rpm -------------- 1.1 amps

now this is TRUE..
its getting terrible amps..

later i tried opening the rr's wires to calculate raw stator's ac output, but my side panel has to be removed to remove the seat, so that i can remove the tank, to disconnect the rr, but that side panel screw was spoilt because i was trying too hard to open it and its grooves are gone..
I'll find a mech to remove it and replace the screw...

if my rr's output give 90 volts without battery connected, i think stator will also give almost same.

that's all
waiting for valuable comments from all of you...

Note :-
in my coil rewinding, i didn't do anything to ground...
it is stock grounding.
i didn't understand what floating ground meant, so my coil guy (who is good at his work) did what he felt was right and the coil ends do come out to 2 grey wires of ape rr...
but one of it i think is soldered to ground.

i just wanted you guys to know this as i thought it might help.

un ground the wire.this is the culprit.rr is fine.this was working as a halfwave so the prob.
do exactly as i told you over chat.

As doktor said, there is the culprit. Unground it. APE RR is designed to work as full wave, not half wave.